The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

[Escafarc]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Buy Desolid linked to the tport with the special effect of being "already gone"

 

It might work, I use Desolidfication only to prevent damage from Knockback with Trigger to represent teleporting before hitting the ground or wall.

[Ragitsu]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Buy Desolid linked to the tport with the special effect of being "already gone"

 

Nah, i'm strictly interested in Teleport itself. For what it's worth, though, thanks for the suggestion.

[Christopher]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Buy Desolid linked to the tport with the special effect of being "already gone"

That would either require:

- Desolid, UAA for the Target and the ruling that "equal SFX Desolids can affect each other" (it's optional)

- Teleport and STR with "affects Physical world"

 

Desolid is a very cheap way for 100% Energy Damage Negation + 100% Physical Damage Negation for only 40 Points, so the drawbacks should be enforced.

[John T]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Legal, but incredibly hard to justify.

 

The answer to an abusive build is not 'start making villains that specifically get around it to nerf it'. If you have to create ridiculous, hard-to-justify villain builds just to prevent a PC from destroying the game, don't ... there's no reason to make more work for yourself. The occassional Nemesis villain who thwarts a PCs powers specifically is okay, and in-genre, but if you have to do it every time to maintain a semblance of balance, it's going to get ridiculous.

 

The answer is 'say no'.

Apparently, I didn't stick a big enough "Tongue-in-Cheek" label on that one.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

On reflection, I think it's important to keep the game somewhere between the "Paladin Trap" and "Plot Induced Stupidity". I'm obviously not fully conversant with the nature of the opposition, but from what I can gather the characters regularly face opponents with full life support, well known to have this. Am I off the mark thinking they are robotic/technological, and have a significant organization backing them?

 

Assuming the PC's have been recognized as a significant impediment to the organization's plans, one would expect the organization to retaliate. One simple addition to their robotic troops might be some form of homing sense to allow them to sense "home base", or at least the Earth, from the asteroid belt, and some Flight. Why leave all the resources up there if we can program them to return to earth - even if it takes weeks, it's not like they need food, air or anything else during the journey home. The players are still preventing achievement of the immediate objective, but we get our robots back eventually, so it's not as much of a financial issue, nor do they get the chance to examine our tech.

 

More research, and a knowledge of the heroes tactics, plus a perception they are a serious problem that must be dealt with, and perhaps we get a little gadget attached to robots sent out as a trap for the PC's. This little widget has a power that's no more abusive than using megascale teleport to end the battle. On being Teleported, it triggers a Barrier . It is transparent to physical attacks (you can walk through it, and other asteroids can pass through it with no harm). It has 2 ED and 3 BOD (ie it is easily broken). It is impenetrable by teleportation. And it is Megascaled to be 1 km in diameter, centered on the robot the device is attached to/implanted in (native power or IIF).

 

The hero 'ports away with the robot, it emits an energy pulse on arrival which fans out to 1 km away in all directions, and Our Hero can't teleport away. He'll have to stand and fight the robot. Assuming he is able to take it down, he can eventually find the device and either switch it off or destroy it. If not, presumably the robot has orders for that (maybe capturing the hero to determine how this very useful teleport power works).

 

Now, maybe they don't have a perfect IIF Teleport Shield device from the outset - maybe they rush it into production, and it might initially suffer from flaws like:

 

- an activation roll (it flickers - timed right, you can Teleport while it's down)

- a time limit (after a turn, say, it burns out, so if Our Hero can last a turn against the villain, he could teleport back to Earth - with the usual drawbacks of megascale teleportation

- its not so inobvious - maybe it flashes when it emits the field so Our Hero can choose to target the device, rather than the robot, to break it and shut down the field.

 

That gives Our Hero an opportunity to see this new development the enemy has come up with, and consider the possibility that, next time, they may have improved on it and he won't be able to get away so easily.

 

Is this nerfing his power? Perhaps - but as has been pointed out several times, the intent of Megascale is to allow interesting powers, not unbalancing powers. Our Hero still has the ability to travel vast distances in the blink of an eye - the purpose of Megascale movement powers, right? If it's unfair for the opponents to have a Megascale barrier, how is it fair for the PC's to have the ability to Megascale Teleport the opposition? And, logically, if a tactic is highly effective against the opposition, they are going to look for ways to neutralize that tactic.

[Patriot]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

These tactics will get around the villain community eventually. Some one will come up with a foil to it. Drain vs movement powers. Dispel vs space vacuum life support.

[Ragitsu]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

I really like that idea, Hugh Neilson. It's also much more creative than "yer dead!" or "they're dead!".

[Ragitsu]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Oh, and there's technically nothing preventing the PC from teleporting to ANOTHER asteroid, possibly in another part of the universe. Heck, they could put the villains on a planet, but those are typically much easier to move around on.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

The hero 'ports away with the robot' date=' it emits an energy pulse on arrival which fans out to 1 km away in all directions, and Our Hero can't teleport away. He'll have to stand and fight the robot. Assuming he is able to take it down, he can eventually find the device and either switch it off or destroy it. If not, presumably the robot has orders for that (maybe capturing the hero to determine how this very useful teleport power works).[/quote']

 

This was my thought too, only it shouldn't even need THAT specialized of an enemy. Have one of them get smart, delay his phase as soon as the PC grabs him, and then WHOMP the PC as soon as they arrive on the asteroid. "You want to take me someplace way out in the middle of nowhere where your friends can't help you? FINE with me! When you wake up, I'll LET you teleport us both back to the fight, only YOU'LL be tied up."

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

If you don't want to just say no (and I still don't see why not, but hey), here's an idea. Have someone with the same powers (or maybe even a power duplicator observing the PC) start bringing the villains back for a small fee. He's making money, your villains come back, and you have a plot hook for the PCs trying to figure out why all these people they've denied basic 8th Amendment rights to keep coming back.

[phoenix240]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

I think I missed the point of the thread. It still seems like its not that big a problem if the PC is only using the power on villains that can survive then limiting its use is pretty easy.

[phoenix240]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

If you don't want to just say no (and I still don't see why not' date=' but hey), here's an idea. Have someone with the same powers (or maybe even a power duplicator observing the PC) start bringing the villains back for a small fee. He's making money, your villains come back, and you have a plot hook for the PCs trying to figure out why all these people they've denied basic 8th Amendment rights to keep coming back. [/quote']

 

Heh, I like this.

[John T]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

I think I missed the point of the thread. It still seems like its not that big a problem if the PC is only using the power on villains that can survive then limiting its use is pretty easy.

I gather it's in the nature of the campaign/setting that a lot of them can.

[phoenix240]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

I gather it's in the nature of the campaign/setting that a lot of them can.

 

Yeah, good point. I was probably looking at this from my own perspective. Villains that could survive unaided in space are the exception rather than the rule in our game.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Apparently' date=' I didn't stick a big enough "Tongue-in-Cheek" label on that one. [/quote']

 

It doesn't help that I've played under GMs who would do precisely that in this situation.

[John T]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

It doesn't help that I've played under GMs who would do precisely that in this situation.

None of the few jerk-wad GMs I've even briefly played with were bright enough to think up something like that. Just my natural sense of humor creeping in, there.

 

Then again, I'd never try to play a character that pulls this kind of cheap "I win" stunt. Why, as a player, would I make a game less fun for everyone involved, myself included?

[Sean Waters]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

I probably ought to read the whole thread but I see someone already mentioned that megascale movement of any sort is non-combat, meaning 0 OCV and 1/2 DCV. Now if someone grabs you then changes their combat stats (bear in mind the grab will end their phase so they can not move until their next phase anyway), I'd certainly allow another breakout attempt, even if the grabbed character did not have a phase.

 

Bear in mind also that grabs usually just target two limbs, leaving the head free for a decent haymakered headbut, which should land before the teleport away, and with our teleporter at half DCV and unwilling to let go, he could be in trouble.

 

You might also try getting the grabbed character to grab the teleporter and rule that, until they are separated, they go everywhere together.

 

The other thing to mention is this: rather than coming up with some power or other that defeats the tactic, there is a much more straightforward and logical approach: Alpha Strike. Basically if the enemy have a killer character, you don't leave them to last, you target them right at the start with everything you've got and put them down. The character can not complain (well, they CAN complain, but you can ignore them) because it makes perfect sense that you take out an opponent like that first, certainly if the opponents you are facing know you and your abilities.

 

Telepete (or whatever his name is) shows up and he's the target of a coordinated attack by a dozen blaster agents. Chances are he'll get hit hard enough to be stunned and maybe even out for the count.

 

The other approach is let him do it. What? I know!

 

Really all you care about is this joker getting rid of your carefully crafted villains rather than your mooks, who are ten a penny. If your teleporter is also superstrong and nigh nvulnerable, he's a real piece of work, but I bet he isn't. That means that he is likely to be in the presence of a character who his his equal for at least 3 phases (grab phase, assuming it works first time, teleport out and (assuming the villain has higher DEX) the teleport back phase. Three phases can end a fight.

 

Intelligent opponents knowing the capabilities of the teleporter will abort to dodge when he tries to grab them or employ high KB attacks to keep him at a distance. A real roughhouser will go in and try and tear up the teleporter.

 

Also consider damage shields

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Really all you care about is this joker getting rid of your carefully crafted villains rather than your mooks, who are ten a penny. If your teleporter is also superstrong and nigh nvulnerable, he's a real piece of work, but I bet he isn't. That means that he is likely to be in the presence of a character who his his equal for at least 3 phases (grab phase, assuming it works first time, teleport out and (assuming the villain has higher DEX) the teleport back phase. Three phases can end a fight.

 

Intelligent opponents knowing the capabilities of the teleporter will abort to dodge when he tries to grab them or employ high KB attacks to keep him at a distance. A real roughhouser will go in and try and tear up the teleporter.

 

Or just let him Grab, and reserve your phase. He has to let go before he can Teleport back without you. When he does, you can counterattack. I don't see this as an unbeatable tactic by any stretch. It seems like one which would carry considerable risks for the teleporter - someone tough enough to survive unaided in space doesn't seem likely to be a pushover if he can battle Teleporter alone on that asteroid.

 

As well, the "we know the opposition can survive in space" aspect strikes me as indicating these opponents are mass produced, so removing a couple from the campaign isn't the end of the world. It takes Teleporter three phases (probably five due to the delays of Megascale) to remove one opponent from the battle and return. How effective would the other characters be using 5 phases to attack the opponents, assuming they never miss?

[Ragitsu]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Robots, yes, but also beings such as undead, and alive cosmic entities.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

You have undead cosmic entities?

 

As far as the robots go, the teleporter should carry a bunch of small NASA stickers, and slap one on the robot before he leaves it on an asteroid. "Congratulations, you're a new NASA unmanned probe!"

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

I'd go with the old reliable: exploding duplicates that explode when teleported.

 

"Okay, you've grabbed him. He's struggling but he can't break free. Now what?"

 

"I use my mega-scale teleport!"

 

 

"Okay, what's your resistant energy defense?"

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

If robots can be modified, and if the Megascale Teleport is known to allow more than just 2x Mass (for instance, 4x or 8x Mass), I'd suggest simply adding Extra Arms and Stretching on IIF. Just before the teleport kicks in, the grabbed robot would shoot out tendrils with magnetic grapplers to any nearby (willing) teammates, so the teleporter is now taking along 3 or more robots. Only one of whom is grabbed, so the others are free to attack upon arrival. Sure, this means the enemy forces are even more reduced, but it should greatly increase their ability to take the teleporter out while he's far from help.

[Manic Typist]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

Couple of ideas that are new or variations of ideas already presented, that offer some changes in adventure style and therefore new sources of fun-

 

A decoy robot which, upon being teleported, launches three small devices. The robot itself is a teleport inhibitor, and each of the devices are also teleport inhibitors which overlap in their area of effect. Now the PC has to find and disable all the inhibitors. They may or may not have defensive measures such as weapons or camouflage.

 

If the PC has significant Extra Sensory abilities- the asteroid is obviously on a collision course with something, perhaps a planet or space station.

 

Or, if the PC doesn't have such abilities- the asteroid is obviously heading into the sun, since the surface is far warmer than normal and geysers of boiling liquids are shooting huge chunks of rock off into space (Re: the movie Armageddon). So, now the PC has to teleport the opposition again, or consign them to a terrible fate.

 

My favorite- requires an "intelligent" enemy (i.e. not a mindless robot). They teleport into the middle of an alien fleet's staging area, which had been secretly preparing to invade. If they aliens have a teleport inhibitor, they must evade and fight their way out of range to escape back to warn the others. If not, well, the aliens capture the opposition and are obviously going to dissect/"extract" intel from him/it. This could work with a mindless robot IF you remind the PC that it could have valuable information on it (such as information about your home planet and various heroes' strengths and weaknesses) that would fall into the aliens' hands (or tentacles) if he just left the robot behind. So he might want to try to destroy the robot before leaving.

[Christopher]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

If robots can be modified' date=' and if the Megascale Teleport is known to allow more than just 2x Mass (for instance, 4x or 8x Mass), I'd suggest simply adding Extra Arms and Stretching on IIF. Just before the teleport kicks in, the grabbed robot would shoot out tendrils with magnetic grapplers to any nearby (willing) teammates, so the teleporter is now taking along 3 or more robots. Only one of whom is grabbed, so the others are free to attack upon arrival. Sure, this means the enemy forces are even more reduced, but it should greatly increase their ability to take the teleporter out while he's far from help.[/quote']

He is not required to teleport what his target grabs. Also the one thign concerning number of characters is always what UAA is bought for (usually single target).

[phoenix240]

Re: The Nightmare of Megascale Teleport

 

You have undead cosmic entities?

 

I don't think many people in the Champs Universe would complain if someone teleported Takanofanes to a distance asteroid.

 

Another possible counter is a power damage sheild of some sort which might discourage Grabbing the intented target.

 

What's the defense against the Teleport?