Ragitsu Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 What (besides not taking cover ) are some common and easy-to-fix tactical gaffs you've noticed players in modern day to near-future police and/or military campaigns make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Re: Tactics 1. The widespread assumption that flash suppressors on rifles meant your targets couldn't see you fire. 2. Not ensuring a downed enemy is permanently down. 3. The player mindset that they must be heroes, and not soldiers or police. This leads them to doing crazy stunts that often get them killed. 4. "I'm in charge, so I get to be the first through the door." No, the SWAT officer is full armor is the first through, and only after he clears the area does your weenie manager ass enter the building. 5. Letting the villain hold a gun to a hostage while negotiations are done. The correct response is to shoot the villain first, talk later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamstreamer Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Re: Tactics Forgetting that the order of operations is Flash then clear a room. Making everyone blind/dazed/disoriented is unhelpful...as is using any explosives in an enclosed environment. Those smart enough to take cover popping their head up in the same place twice. Forgetting that bullet-proof vests might be improperly named...especially when it comes to rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolon Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Re: Tactics Never attack where the enemy figures you would. Hit hard and fast with all you got. Flash/bangs and bullets are useless when still in the gun or your webbing. Once you are detected, you are a target. Move and make it harder on them. Sound suppressors and flash suppressors suppress and don't eliminate. Silenced weapons need subsonic ammo. If everyone else is dressed to go to the moon, your badge will not protect you. You can't just reset the game if you are shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Re: Tactics Crossfire. Forgetting that bullets don't magically stop moving just because they've gone past the target. Forgetting that full-auto-empty-the-clip fire tends to spray bullets all over the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Re: Tactics 1. The widespread assumption that flash suppressors on rifles meant your targets couldn't see you fire. 2. Not ensuring a downed enemy is permanently down. 3. The player mindset that they must be heroes, and not soldiers or police. This leads them to doing crazy stunts that often get them killed. 4. "I'm in charge, so I get to be the first through the door." No, the SWAT officer is full armor is the first through, and only after he clears the area does your weenie manager ass enter the building. 5. Letting the villain hold a gun to a hostage while negotiations are done. The correct response is to shoot the villain first, talk later. 3. Depends on the tone of the game. If I am playing true Dark Champions, yes. If I am playing action movie or pulp, no. 5. The real way this is handled is to talk, talk, and talk some more unless there is active shooting going on. The goal being to tire out the villain and get him to give up. You only shoot to attempt to save lives, and even them there are no guarantees that it is going to go well. Those smart enough to take cover popping their head up in the same place twice. The Hero System does not penalize you for this to my knowledge. Is there a specific example for this, or am I forgetting a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Re: Tactics 5. Letting the villain hold a gun to a hostage while negotiations are done. The correct response is to shoot the villain first' date=' talk later.[/quote'] If that's how it's going down, the VILLAIN is displaying poor tactics as well. You use the hostage as a human shield and shoot THE HEROES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Re: Tactics The Hero System does not penalize you for this to my knowledge. Is there a specific example for this' date=' or am I forgetting a rule.[/quote'] Popping up once gives the opposition a position to aim at. Popping up the second time results in getting popped yourself... in real life, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptPatriot Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Re: Tactics Popping up once gives the opposition a position to aim at. Popping up the second time results in getting popped yourself... in real life' date=' anyway.[/quote']You can choose to aim where he pops out. In game terms, the shooter COVERs that spot, then when he goes to fire, BAM! And because you covered, no Dex roll needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Re: Tactics How about inefficient/poor gear distribution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Re: Tactics Or even vehicle tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Re: Tactics Time Players do not take time, to be safe and sure. Lord Ghee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Re: Tactics Time Players do not take time, to be safe and sure. Lord Ghee How do you differentiate player tactical knowledge from character tactical knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics Tactics skill. "No, your character would not know how to assault a fortified position using bounding overwatch." "No, your character would know better than to interpose himself between two groups of people who are shooting at each other." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folded Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics Ignoring in-game chain of command. In most other kinds of campaigns, who is leader and how much power that leader has is negotiable between the players. But if we're a SWAT or SpecOps team, and my character is specifically in charge, then I expect my players to follow orders. And they don't (or do so rarely). It's very frustrating the few times we play such games (mostly Battletech), and I can't find a solution to the problem. Any punishment of the character is completely ignored, and any punishment of the player just draws the "But I'm playing in character" response. No, you're not. You're a member of a military unit and you're disobeying or ignoring direct orders. The funny thing is, the one time I managed to enforce my authority and carry a planned tactic all the way out, everyone was surprised by how effectively we defeated our opponents. The only casualty we had was from a freak critical shot to the head and a couple of damaged mechs. I still don't think anyone has made the connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics Ah, the eternal struggle of whether or not anyone should be "leader". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics Make leader an NPC who does what the group votes for, at least in terms of larger or even just medium decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics I think it's in some players' makeup that they'll do what they want to do (which is usually go on some random walkabout) no matter what. Some will refrain when yelled at. And when they get into a situation where they cannot be yelled at because of breakdown of in-game tactical communications, they go just apes**t on their random peregrinations, poking every beehive with a stick as they pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics Ah' date=' the eternal struggle of whether or not anyone should be "leader".[/quote'] I gave up the hope of having a tactical "leader" in RPGs long ago. Nowadays I'm happy if there's just no callous disregard for teammates or innocent bystanders in combat, e.g. with AOE weapons or environmental concerns. "I shoot Baddie Dujour with a napalm bomb." "But he's fighting Lightly Armored Karate Teammate! In front of a day care!" "'Fore!'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Re: Tactics 1) Retreating from an ambush (rather than charging it) lets the ambushers (generally an inferior force) get the best of the party. 2) Patrolling in a tight group (rather than spread out) makes the whole party a single target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolon Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Re: Tactics How about the mentalist, wizard or techie taking point or getting too close? Never enter the effective range of the enemy if you can fight from outside of it. ie Don't go hand to hand when you have range weapons and they don't. Focus fire to drop target quickly rather than all taking different targets. The enemy shots back 5 times, next round 4, next round 3 as the heroes continue to be full. Have the high defense guys keep the enemy separated so they can't concentrate fire on individual heroes. Take the fight to the enemy so they need to go defensive and you have all your combatants on top of them dealing damage as they wait for reinforcements or help to arrive. Take out enemy in order of area attackers, multiple fire attackers, range attackers and hand 2 hand last. If they can't get to you to do effective damage, they are doing you a favour. Take care of the real threats first. A single dodging target can keep a hand 2 hand combatant busy and away as the team deals with all others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Re: Tactics The Hero System does not penalize you for this to my knowledge. Is there a specific example for this, or am I forgetting a rule. In theory, once they see you pop your head up they can use the suppression fire rule on the hex. I'd have to go back and look to see if it would really work, though. Of course, they could just use suppression fire without your popping your head up - popping your head up just tells them which hex to zero in on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Re: Tactics Which brings us to another oft forgotten mechanic: Suppression Fire. And the Cover Maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Re: Tactics "Watch where you throw that grenade: the casualty radius is larger than you think" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Miles Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Re: Tactics Ignoring in-game chain of command. In most other kinds of campaigns, who is leader and how much power that leader has is negotiable between the players. But if we're a SWAT or SpecOps team, and my character is specifically in charge, then I expect my players to follow orders. And they don't (or do so rarely). It's very frustrating the few times we play such games (mostly Battletech), and I can't find a solution to the problem. Any punishment of the character is completely ignored, and any punishment of the player just draws the "But I'm playing in character" response. No, you're not. You're a member of a military unit and you're disobeying or ignoring direct orders. The funny thing is, the one time I managed to enforce my authority and carry a planned tactic all the way out, everyone was surprised by how effectively we defeated our opponents. The only casualty we had was from a freak critical shot to the head and a couple of damaged mechs. I still don't think anyone has made the connection. I had this problem once. We were playing FASA's "Star Trek", and all of the other players elected me captain of the ship. However, the first ship-to-ship encounter we had, my captain started giving orders, and the players started getting pissed that I didn't ask them for their input first. This was set during the TOS era, so there was no reason for them to expect my character to call a huddle like TNG in its worst moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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