Tornado Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 How does this work out? I have a species that's native to depths of about 20km on a moon quite similar to Titan. If they wanted to interact with humans and other species native to more Earthlike environments, would there be any way for them to do so personally? Some sort of suit could easily compensate for the pressure, temperature, and their aquatic nature, but is there any way to deal with the gravity? The only thing I can think of that works would be telecommuting from LEO, which kind of reduces the amount you can threaten such a character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? ... Does your campaign have rubber-science gravitics? Or is it high up on the Mohs Scale of Sci-Fi Hardness? If your tech is Hard SF, there's nothing to do but endure the clutches of gravity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? How does this work out? I have a species that's native to depths of about 20km on a moon quite similar to Titan. If they wanted to interact with humans and other species native to more Earthlike environments' date=' would there be any way for them to do so [i']personally[/i]? Some sort of suit could easily compensate for the pressure, temperature, and their aquatic nature, but is there any way to deal with the gravity? The only thing I can think of that works would be telecommuting from LEO, which kind of reduces the amount you can threaten such a character. Gravity isn't much of an issue for a floating aquatic creature. Neutral buoyancy, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? About what differences in Gravity are we talkign about? (I have no idea, there is no value on Wikipedia) And is this really an aquatic species like Clonus asumes, or does the "depths of about 20 km" means something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? In the short term, things can stand lower gravity than they evolved in, but have a hard time with higher gravity. I think your sentients could interact with humans in situations that were microgravity for both of them, for instance. Titan's surface gravity is about 1/7 gee (not too different from Earth's Moon) and the depth wouldn't make much difference to that. So you accomodate them pretty easily on a suitable environment facility on the Earth's Moon, if you wanted. Looking at how humans have problems with brief duration exposure to 6 gees (and AFAIK long-duration limits to excess gravity have never been determined), that may be as close to a mutually acceptable situation as you could get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? I'd think anything more than about 20% higher gravity would cause problems in the long run, but be tolerable for short durations - and the human tolerance limit seems to be at around 7G or so. The higher gravity is compared to your native gravity, the less time you can cope with it, and more severe the effects become Coping with lower gravity is much easier, but will also end up with some long term effects - decalcification, muscle atrophy, etc. "Look to the sky, mom to see all the rich people Floating in front of the moon Their muscles have atrophied their bones have decalcified they're globulous masses of flesh" - Scott Rockwood, 'Ode to Tito' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? About what differences in Gravity are we talkign about? (I have no idea, there is no value on Wikipedia) And is this really an aquatic species like Clonus asumes, or does the "depths of about 20 km" means something different? Yeah, it's an aquatic species, the gravity on Titan is .14g (this moon's gravity is .16g). Is neutral buoyancy going to mean they can operate in any environment as long as they're still suspended in the appropriate density of liquid? It seems like there would be other problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? Yeah, it's an aquatic species, the gravity on Titan is .14g (this moon's gravity is .16g). Is neutral buoyancy going to mean they can operate in any environment as long as they're still suspended in the appropriate density of liquid? It seems like there would be other problems. Maybe not even that problem if they are moved to less dense liquid very gradually. The problem that deep sea creatures tend to have when they are dragged to the surface is that their internal pressure is much greater than the external pressure and this results in cells and organs rupturing. If they were brought to a more near the surface pressure over a period of days their bodies could potentially bleed off their excess internal pressure in a way that doesn't damage them. There would likely be other barriers for them to overcome and requirement to be met. The salinity of their home water would very likely be quite different from any terrestrial water bodies, their temperature requirements are likely to be different, and they would likely find the sun rays as encountered on Earth to be damaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? If the species is aquatic then I think that actually gets us around the problem of them being crushed by their own weight, assuming they're in a fishbowl of some sort. Then all you have to worry about is maintaining the appropriate amount of pressure. I know Titan has only a fraction of Earth's gravity but surely the pressure at a depth of ten miles is still extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? I'd think anything more than about 20% higher gravity would cause problems in the long run... Really? I always thought a human could put up with 2G pretty much indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? I will admit to knowing little about it, but it would seem that 2x gravity would, over time, put a lot of strain on the body. Just an educated guess though, so don't quote me on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? With Necessity being that grand and demanding Matron that she is, it wouldn't be very long until somebody would figure out something. I would think a likely invention would be an exoskeleton to help negate (relative) heavy gravity. Depending on the tech level, this could be extremely bulky with a short battery life, (maybe even tethered to an external power source), to some kind of jumpsuit or even device that reduces gravity's grip. An interesting side-effect to this would be that the low-grav people would become pretty strong (for their species anyways) and build up some good endurance by virtue of it being weight training with every step they take in the higher gravity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? An interesting side-effect to this would be that the low-grav people would become pretty strong (for their species anyways) and build up some good endurance by virtue of it being weight training with every step they take in the higher gravity. So, they become Sayajin-strong in their normal gravity? No seriously, I think any mayor change of the normal gravity would cause long term damage similar to making extreme sports - with every breath. Even if your muscles can be trained to have enough power to lift you(move youe), there are still your joints (who aren't designed for so much pressure), your inner organs (inlcuding your brain), the problem that your heart needs way more power to get the blood to your brain (okay, muscle but one that has not unlimited reserves). I think unless you have some serious gene-manipulation on your side to be able to withstand all the detrimental effects, you would not live very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? Or, at least, you would see fairly rapid evolution of the species for those living on and born on higher-gravity worlds than their home planet. And others here are, I would imagine, correct if dealing with an aquatic species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverway Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? Six times your normal gravity might be a bit much, but how about two to three times normal gravity? http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,897495,00.html http://books.google.com/books?id=sVIEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=raised+mice+in+a+centrifuge&source=bl&ots=ofUMfeO-GI&sig=jcQauHl3bxxvyFZ-SMAWpu4yGK0&hl=en&ei=v7g5Tr23D-fkiAKH4f3HDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=raised%20mice%20in%20a%20centrifuge&f=false Not exactly scientific papers, but at least it's information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? As I interpret the first one as: Land mamals have a easier time than birds. It is intersting that Mice adapt so well. But I fear sentient being are way less adaptable and could develop personality changes that you simply can not detect in mice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? Yeah, it's an aquatic species, the gravity on Titan is .14g (this moon's gravity is .16g). Is neutral buoyancy going to mean they can operate in any environment as long as they're still suspended in the appropriate density of liquid? It seems like there would be other problems. Aquatic lifeforms are very picky about the salinity of the water they operate in, but yeah if you keep them in a pressurized vessel with the right composition, gravity shouldn't be that big a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Re: Sentients native to low-gravity worlds operating on "normal" gravity worlds? Hey, so I looked up the equation for pressure vs. depth and it turns out that pressure is a linear function of density, gravity, and depth. So if we're talking about water, a depth of 20km on a Titan with .14g is equivalent to an Earth depth of (20000m)(0.14) or 2800m. Which is deep, about maximum depth for sperm whales and viperfish, and home territory for Architeuthis. But it's not incomprehensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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