How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

[JmOz]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I have always had a problem with this because of Hank McCoy, the Beast. When he is with the Avengers it's all good, but the minute he is an X-men he is hated. I wonder if it might be something to do with how the "Main"" teams are looked at. If the X-Men get labeled as terrorists, and they are the "good" team, then all must be. Personaly I dislike the whole utant hysteria for the reasos that you have brought up/

[dmjalund]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

maybe we should be asking Lady GaGa

[Clonus]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Just thought I'd repeat myself and emphasise something that most of you are overlooking.

 

The question isn't "why is it this way in the Marvel universe?" ?

 

I already answered the question. Eliminate the accidental origins and you have a clear dividing line between mutants and any other kind of superhuman. Toss a little babble about "homo superior" in and you're off to the races.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Just thought I'd repeat myself and emphasise something that most of you are overlooking.

 

The question isn't "why is it this way in the Marvel universe?" Rather, the question is "how would you rationalize such a state of affairs where one subset of people with powers is singled out for prejudicial treatment?" In the Marvel universe, the answer seems to be "we've always done it this way". They've paid only minor attention to the whys and wherefores, because their mutantstories are about prejudice, so it's necessary to the story even if, upon examination, the stated reason for discrimination doesn't make sense.

 

I think many of the conditions presnet in the MU are required for the idea to work at all. You'll note that the metagene over in DC does notgenerally produce similarr reactions

[Tasha]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I already answered the question. Eliminate the accidental origins and you have a clear dividing line between mutants and any other kind of superhuman. Toss a little babble about "homo superior" in and you're off to the races.

 

There's an argument that says that "Accidental Origin" supers are just latent Mutants that had their powers activated by the stresses of the accident, chemicals, radiation that "gave" them powers. Now public perception can still be for those heroes because they are perceived as starting out as human. Even if they have the gene or set of genes that cause superpowers, they don't take up the "Mutant" identity or label. They see themselves as "Superpowered Human". I think that can make all of the difference. esp if there is a good back history of these "Superpowered Humans" doing good things for people.

 

One thing struck me about the Second XMan movie. Magneto, meets Pyro for the first time. Mags asks Pyro his name, Pyro gives his given name. Magneto strongly corrects him by asking "What is your MUTANT name" which is answered "Pyro. Changing someone's name is a very strong thing. That's why certain religions(ie Islam) make converts change their name during the time the convert is learning (or as a graduation gift). It makes the identity change complete. I am thinking that Magneto understands this better than Xavier does. That giving a child a code name and never using their given name causes the child to think of themselves as Other. Which probably makes the problem harder. Because even the "good" mutants tend to identify with their "evil" foes (ie we are both Mutants, just divided by philosophy). That sometimes causes them to band together when the norms seem to attack both. Which of course is caused by the evil mutants having done something nasty to the normals. That and the perception that there are no real consequences for breaking the law as long as you are a mutant. ie Storm the Thief, Rogue the supervillian, Magneto the supervillian etc. all given a "fresh chance" because they suddenly decided they were good now. No jail time for their crimes required. No wonder people hate them (of course this is talking about the Marvel Universe, but some of the tropes do filter down to regular campaigns)

[Tasha]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I think many of the conditions presnet in the MU are required for the idea to work at all. You'll note that the metagene over in DC does notgenerally produce similarr reactions

 

In the DCU heroes are basically adored by the public. The MU tends to be skeptical about any new super powered person. Then they will get a following. Hell, Ben Grimm from the FF is still treated like dirt by the normal people. Martian Manhunter who is even weirder looking tends to be treated very well. It's the influence of Stan Lee that every hero must have problems and things that weight his/her life down. DCU has caught up in the angst dept, but their heroes are still treated better on average than any MU hero.

[megaplayboy]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

See, here's the thing. Beast, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch, Wolverine...they can all join the Avengers, not a problem, and anti-mutant storylines rarely pop up. Iron Man, Spider-Man, the Thing and Captain America--can they join the X-Men? "But you have to be a mutant..." Oh, really? Was Juggernaut a mutant? Or was he just sufficiently closely-woven into the fabric of X-Men lore that him joining the team wasn't a big deal?

[Clonus]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

See' date=' here's the thing. Beast, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch, Wolverine...they can all join the Avengers, not a problem, and anti-mutant storylines rarely pop up. Iron Man, Spider-Man, the Thing and Captain America--can they join the X-Men? "But you have to be a mutant..." Oh, really? Was Juggernaut a mutant? Or was he just sufficiently closely-woven into the fabric of X-Men lore that him joining the team wasn't a big deal?[/quote']

 

Honestly writers seem to keep forgetting that Juggernaut isn't a mutant. I still remember the she-Sphynx storyline in which a weapon specifically designed to work only against weapons KOed Juggernaut.

[megaplayboy]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Honestly writers seem to keep forgetting that Juggernaut isn't a mutant. I still remember the she-Sphynx storyline in which a weapon specifically designed to work only against weapons KOed Juggernaut.

 

Didn't help that they actually DID make him a mutant in the third X-men film.

 

Seriously, though. Wouldn't Captain America joining the X-Men be a much more interesting storyline than Wolvie joining the Avengers?

[RexMundi]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I use the approach that was in the New Universal comics myself. Makes having powers of any kind, rather interesting.

 

~Rex

[megaplayboy]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Do you have any idea how immensely popular in the real world someone who could make it rain would actually be, given fires, droughts, etc? Rick Perry would be speed-dialing Thor and Storm for help in Texas. "Well, I don't know about these here other mutants, but that Storm, she saved our home and made sure we'll have a good harvest this year. The Good Lord surely sent her here to help us all."

[Greywind]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Didn't help that they actually DID make him a mutant in the third X-men film.

 

Seriously, though. Wouldn't Captain America joining the X-Men be a much more interesting storyline than Wolvie joining the Avengers?

Movies are a mix of main line and ultimate. Ultimate Juggs is a mutant.

[RexMundi]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Movies are a mix of main line and ultimate. Ultimate Juggs is a mutant.

 

Ultimates don't count for anything.....never happened...there was no Trailer Park Trash version of the Juggernaut who was part of the Weapon X program that got the Gem Powers from having it shoved into his helmet and then ends up getting killed with a poison dart to the eye while professing his crush on rogue.

 

Someday, the Ultimate guys over there at Marvel won't keep trying to stuff their failed version in the good comic stuff, oh wait, they just PUT those people in charge of all the non marvel studios movie stuff....*shudder*

 

~Rex.....goes back to the New Universal solution. Works better. Especially in a game.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I think this post' date=' and a few others, are completely missing the point of the original question.The question isn't "Why do people hate mutants?" It's "[b']Why do people hate Mutants, but not other people who, other than getting their powers in differnt ways, are pretty much exactly like Mutants?[/b]"

 

This. Emphasis added.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

ltimate Juggs is a mutant.

 

Sounds like a porno title.

[Clonus]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I think this post' date=' and a few others, are completely missing the point of the original question.The question isn't "Why do people hate mutants?" It's "Why do people hate Mutants, but not other people who, other than getting their powers in differnt ways, are pretty much exactly like Mutants?" To use the example above, it would be like discriminating against people who were born gay (and yes, I know that in RL all gay people are born that way, but just go with me here), but not against people who become gay later in life. .[/quote']

 

It would be like disliking people who inherited their money but not lottery winners or "self-made millionaires". Oh wait. People actually do that.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

In the DCU heroes are basically adored by the public. The MU tends to be skeptical about any new super powered person. Then they will get a following. Hell' date=' Ben Grimm from the FF is still treated like dirt by the normal people. Martian Manhunter who is even weirder looking tends to be treated very well. It's the influence of Stan Lee that every hero must have problems and things that weight his/her life down. DCU has caught up in the angst dept, but their heroes are still treated better on average than any MU hero.[/quote']

i thought benji was a popular hero despite his looks in the mu

[Christopher]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

They act the same' date=' they do the same things, the only difference is some were born that way, and some became that way. So why rage against those who were born with it, and not those who acquired it later on? And my response to that is in my first post on this thread. The only way it makes sense is if all actual supers are Mutants, and everybody else relies on tech and/or training.[/quote']

I think the best solution so far was "they are naturally so". When something occurs naturally, people regard it as much more dangerous/abnormal. Just take something absolutely normal and non-dagerous, that around 10% of all humans have: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handedness

For yearhundreds using the left hand by birth was regarded as "wrong". People where trained to learn the right hand, for no real reason. But someone who had his right hand impaired so he could not write with it, had most likely way less problems.

 

I have always had a problem with this because of Hank McCoy' date=' the Beast. When he is with the Avengers it's all good, but the minute he is an X-men he is hated. I wonder if it might be something to do with how the "Main"" teams are looked at. If the X-Men get labeled as terrorists, and they are the "good" team, then all must be. Personaly I dislike the whole utant hysteria for the reasos that you have brought up/[/quote']

Afaik Nemor was, even when associated with the avengers, still considered as potentially dangerous.

 

Do you have any idea how immensely popular in the real world someone who could make it rain would actually be' date=' given fires, droughts, etc? Rick Perry would be speed-dialing Thor and Storm for help in Texas. "Well, I don't know about these here other mutants, but that Storm, she saved our home and made sure we'll have a good harvest this year. The Good Lord surely sent her here to help us all."[/quote']

Didn't Storm even said she used to be the rainmaker on a afrikan tribe, in one of the last movies (I think in 2, while talking to Nightcrawler).

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Seriously' date=' though. Wouldn't Captain America joining the X-Men be a much more interesting storyline than Wolvie joining the Avengers?[/quote']

 

Any storyline with Captain America is more interesting than any storyline with Wolverine.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

See' date=' here's the thing. Beast, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch, Wolverine...they can all join the Avengers, not a problem, and anti-mutant storylines rarely pop up.[/quote']

 

They do crop up in the Avengers family of books, but are much less common.

 

Much like the X-men don't often get depicted fighting fires or rescuing kittens.

 

It's not the focus of the book.

 

Iron Man, Spider-Man, the Thing and Captain America--can they join the X-Men?

 

The X-family has had several non mutant members, which has included aliens, sentient robots, various altered humans, extra dimensional beings, de-powered mutants, cyborgs and several completely normal humans as well.

 

So while I doubt Tony Stark would actually join the X-men and it's doubtful Scott Summers is ever going to try and recruit him... I'd say there's a chance he could make it on the team.

 

This would depend on the political climate of the book at the time though... Grant Morrison's vision of Xavier's School For Gifted Youngsters (it's a full fledged school) was quite different from Stan Lee's take on it (it's a top secret super base), so these sort of things change with the times...

[Bloodstone]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Just my own .02' date=' YMMV, etc., but imnsho the whole "mutants are different and persecuted for-evar/emo wangst" thing is now the most tired-ass-trope in all of comic-bookdom.[/quote']

 

The demand is still there, so Marvel would be foolish to abandon the concept completely.

 

So long as there are awkward teenagers, there will always be a need for the X-men

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

The demand is still there, so Marvel would be foolish to abandon the concept completely.

 

So long as there are awkward teenagers, there will always be a need for the X-men

 

"Do you ever wanna run away/ Do lock yourself in your room/with the radio turned on turned up so loud/no-one hears you screaming?"

 

Just because it's old hat to you doesn't mean that it isn't the feeling that grips another generation of comics readers.

[megaplayboy]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

"Do you ever wanna run away/ Do lock yourself in your room/with the radio turned on turned up so loud/no-one hears you screaming?"

 

Just because it's old hat to you doesn't mean that it isn't the feeling that grips another generation of comics readers.

 

And yet, sales are a pale fraction of what they were in their heyday, and the X-books have slipped to the middle of the pack with respect to comparative sales, vis a vis Avengers/Thor/Spider-man/etc. Perhaps a significant chunk of the market shares my ennui?

[phoenix240]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Didn't Storm even said she used to be the rainmaker on a afrikan tribe' date=' in one of the last movies (I think in 2, while talking to Nightcrawler).[/quote']

 

In Marvel canon, Storm used to be basically be a Goddess to her people. Which given her powers, as someone observed, was pretty close to being literally true. She's probably one of the more dangerous mutants in the Marvel universe for the sheer level of havoc she could unleash on the world.

 

That's been my problem with Marvel "Mutant hate". It's too blanket and uniform. I think there would be predjudice but there would be some adoration too, even worship or deification. Humans tend to fears what more powerful and unknown but we also idolize it too.

 

Edit: Maybe this has come up in the X titles? I've never followed them more than casually.

[megaplayboy]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I've never known an extremely attractive public figure to inspire only hatred and fear. Well, maybe Naomi Campbell...

 

Generally, though, attractive people will have a pretty substantial fan base to offset the "haters". And lots of X-Men happen to be extremely attractive. Not to mention youth counterculture tends to embrace anything remotely rebellious.