What defines a Superhuman?

[RexMundi]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Batman in his own comic matches wits with crimelords and battles thugs and hired assassins. He faces credible threats in guys like the Penguin (at least their thugs) and he is superhumanly annoying.

 

Batman in the Justice League or any comic with superhumans in it matches wits with super-geniuses is a world class fighter with seeming superhuman resilience to punishment both mental and physical.

 

I can buy lower point totals in his own books, but Batman has been portrayed as "The Worlds Finest Detective," and an expert in Combat, Finance, Sciences, Engineering, and Psychology. There's precious few "mortals" in the DC universe that are portrayed as his equal in anything.

 

Long term Batman fans (not the grognards or Fanboys, but the real fans), can point you at the people that are BETTER then Bruce in any one (or two or three) given things. Batman himself has pointed this out (hence where the fans get their knowledge of said folks from) in many an issue. It's the total Package that makes The Batman, THE threat as far as the normal guys go in the DCU, or even the DCnU.

 

~Rex

[Enforcer84]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Long term Batman fans (not the grognards or Fanboys, but the real fans), can point you at the people that are BETTER then Bruce in any one (or two or three) given things. Batman himself has pointed this out (hence where the fans get their knowledge of said folks from) in many an issue. It's the total Package that makes The Batman, THE threat as far as the normal guys go in the DCU, or even the DCnU.

 

~Rex

 

That doesn't change what I said at all. Yes I'm sure there are guys who are his equal in one or two areas, I can name a few but he's simply head and shoulders above every other mortal that it's annoying (in Team Books) in his own series he's still annoying but not as bad. (But I'm NOT a fan, so my views are admittedly skewed. )

[Lucius]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

If you are buying Powers, you are superhuman. If you have breaking, not just NCM, but Maximum Characteristics for Normals, then you are superhuman. Some obvious Talents also count as Superhuman, while some don't, and some are in the grey area.

 

Point totals don't matter. Point totals and APs only determine if it is a good idea for you to fight crime or not.

 

Introducing Sue Perhugh-Mann, the Superhuman athlete and bodyguard.

 

She has no less than 20 seperate Powers

 

Sue Perhugh-Mann

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

15 STR 5 12- Lift 200.0kg; 3d6 [3]

13 DEX 6 12- OCV: 5/DCV: 5

13 CON 3 12-

13 INT 3 12- PER Roll 13-

10 EGO 0 11- ECV: 3 - 3

20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6

 

5 OCV 10

5 DCV 10

3 OMCV 0

3 DMCV 0

3 SPD 10 Phases: 4, 8, 12

 

8+5 PD 3 Total: 8/13 PD (3/8 rPD)

8+5 ED 3 Total: 8/13 ED (3/8 rED)

5 REC 1

20 END 0

10 BODY 0

20 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 48

 

Movement: Running: 13m/26m

Leaping: 5m/10m

Swimming: 7m/14m

Swinging: 3m/12m

 

Cost Powers END

25 Athletic: Multipower, 25-point reserve

3v 1) Track and Field: Running +13m (13m total) (13 Active Points) 1

1v 2) Freestyle: Swimming +7m (7m total) (4 Active Points) 1

1v 3) Swim underwater: Life Support (Extended Breathing: 1 END per Minute) (2 Active Points) 0

1v 4) Long jump: Leaping +5m (5m forward, 2 ½m upward) (Accurate) (8 Active Points) 1

1v 5) Swinging 3m, x4 Noncombat, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (10 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Skill roll (Athletics); Must be made each Phase/use; -1), OIF (Rope/chandalier/cable of opportunity; -½) 0

2v 6) Boxing: Hand-To-Hand Attack +2d6 (Alterable Origin Point (kickboxing, elbow smash, etc)) (15 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-¼) 1

1v 7) Wrestling Hold: Entangle 1d6, 4 PD/4 ED (25 Active Points); Costs END To Maintain (Full END Cost; -½), Entangle Has 1 BODY (-½), No Range (-½), Required Hands Two-Handed (-½), Limited Power Cannot move or let go or the target escapes (-½), Nonresistant DEF (-¼), Concentration (½ DCV; -¼) 2

2f 8) Wrestling Throw: Change Environment (+3 Points of Damage, -3 to DEX Roll or fall) (24 Active Points); No Range (-½) 2

2v 9) Self Defense Training: +2 DCV (10 Active Points)

2v 10) Combat Experience: +2 OCV (10 Active Points)

3 Keen senses: +1 PER with all Sense Groups 0

5 Just Lucky: Luck 1d6 0

6 Rolls with the punch, shrugs off injury: Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED)

1 Heals well: Regeneration (1 BODY per Week), Limited Power Major wounds leave scars (-0) (2 Active Points); Requires A Roll (Skill roll (Athletics); -½) 0

Equipment

5 1) Body Armor: Resistant Protection (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); Requires A Roll (11- roll; Must be made each Phase/use; -1), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (or more), Only to Activate, -¾), IIF (-¼), Real Armor (-¼) 0

8 2) Well tailored suits: Change Environment (-3 to Sight Group PER Rolls, -1 to Normal Touch PER Rolls), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (27 Active Points); Limited Power Only to conceal armor and weapons (-1), No Range (-½), Self Only (-½), IIF (Clothing; -¼), Real Clothing (-¼) 0

3 3) Staff: +5 STR (to do damage, to use as a lever, etc), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (7 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-¼)

1 4) Staff: Stretching 2m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (3 Active Points); OAF (-1), no Noncombat Stretching (-¼), No Velocity Damage (-¼) 0

10 5) Pistol: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+¼) (25 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-¼), 2 clips of 8 Charges (-¼) [8]

7 6) Hold-out knife: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6-1 (2d6 - 1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1) 0

 

Skills

0 Athletic

3 1) Acrobatics 12-

3 2) Breakfall 12-

3 3) Climbing 12-

3 4) Power: Athlete 12-

3 PS: Bodyguard 12-

3 Combat Driving 12-

4 WF: Blades, Handguns, Staves, Thrown Knives, Axes, and Darts

3 Concealment 12-

3 Fast Draw: Pistol 12-

3 Fast Draw: Knife 12-

3 Charm 13-

1 High Society 8-

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 125

Total Cost: 173

 

175+ Matching Complications

125 Base Points

15 Psychological Complication: Defend's a client's life with her own (Common; Strong)

10 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Any hand to hand attack roll of 3 to 5 hits old internal injuries (Uncommon)

10 Dependent NPC: Client Infrequently (Normal)

10 Hunted: Client's enemies Infrequently (As Pow; Limited Geographical Area; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Harshly Punish)

5 Unluck: 1d6

 

Total Complications Points: 173

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises

[megaplayboy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Heck, Harbinger of Dam--I mean, Harbinger of Justice is mostly technically a "normal" human being. But he's built on more points than Firewing...and might even be able to kill him. I guess I'd probably haul out the "legendary human" moniker to make a further distinction to allow for hypercapable "normal" human beings.

[RexMundi]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

That doesn't change what I said at all. Yes I'm sure there are guys who are his equal in one or two areas' date=' I can name a few but he's simply head and shoulders above every other mortal that it's annoying (in Team Books) in his own series he's still annoying but not as bad. (But I'm NOT a fan, so my views are admittedly skewed. )[/quote']

 

Nah non Fans tend to have the clearer vision, up front at least, though they do miss some of the details that are apparent to long term fans that tend not to show up with short looks. Trust me I'm a long term Bat-Fan and even I get annoyed when he goes into Bat-God mode (Some writers avoid this though and more power to them)....It takes a really dedicated and knowledgeable writer to bring out the details.

 

~Rex

[RexMundi]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Heck' date=' Harbinger of Dam--I mean, Harbinger of Justice is mostly technically a "normal" human being. But he's built on more points than Firewing...and might even be able to kill him. I guess I'd probably haul out the "legendary human" moniker to make a further distinction to allow for hypercapable "normal" human beings.[/quote']

 

If it worked for Achilles and crowd, it should work for the Harbinger of Bullets.

 

~Rex

[rjcurrie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I've always looked at "superhuman" or "normal" in a superhero universe as as more or less just another special effect. If you define as your 33 DEX and 13 OCV as being the result of training with the finest acrobats and fighters, then you're a "normal". If you define your 33 DEX and 13 OCV as being the result of being born a mutant or being bitten by a radioactive martial artist, you're a "superhuman". Of course, these arguments as to whether someone is a "superhuman" or a "normal" may very well exist within the universe itself.

[megaplayboy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I've always looked at "superhuman" or "normal" in a superhero universe as as more or less just another special effect. If you define as your 33 DEX and 13 OCV as being the result of training with the finest acrobats and fighters' date=' then you're a "normal". If you define your 33 DEX and 13 OCV as being the result of being born a mutant or being bitten by a radioactive martial artist, you're a "superhuman". Of course, these arguments as to whether someone is a "superhuman" or a "normal" may very well exist within the universe itself.[/quote']

 

Indeed, one can only imagine the debates within the chambers of, say, the International Olympic Committee.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Right, so then if a typical 300 point superhuman rates a "4" on such a scale, and a 25-50 point superhuman rates a "1", then there's some point of diminishing returns where you have someone who is capable of meaningfully working together with others to accomplish something with a decent chance of success, and where below that level you have people who are generally not capable of doing so, at least with regard to "menaces faced by low-powered teenage superhumans"(which, IIRC, was the original context of this whole debate).

I'd guess around 100 points would be the low end for teenage supers. If you game twice a month and progress them 50 points xp per game year, they will reach 300 points within 4 years of game time--equivalent to progressing from 9th through 12th grade. If you start them younger--7th grade(about 12-13 years old), then by the time they graduate high school, they may be as capable as a "standard" 400 point superhero. If you drop too far below the 100 point level, they basically all turn into one-trick ponies, and if they have the "wrong" trick, it may be a struggle to make them effective in a particular scenario. Not saying it couldn't be done, but you'd have a realllly slow learning curve before they became recognizable as some sort of competent team.

 

I don't think you can necessarily equate points total to age or even experience. Admittedly, yes, it tends to work that way in both games and fiction, but in theory there's nothing stopping a nine year old from having The Power Cosmic, and a 400 point super could be a total rookie; this would be represented in how he's built (no skill levels, Psych Lims representing inexperience and just the way the player plays him). It's more just a matter of what power level you want your game at.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I've always looked at "superhuman" or "normal" in a superhero universe as as more or less just another special effect. If you define as your 33 DEX and 13 OCV as being the result of training with the finest acrobats and fighters' date=' then you're a "normal". If you define your 33 DEX and 13 OCV as being the result of being born a mutant or being bitten by a radioactive martial artist, you're a "superhuman". Of course, these arguments as to whether someone is a "superhuman" or a "normal" may very well exist within the universe itself.[/quote']

 

This is true; it depends on the GM whether or not they buy that a 'normal' could possibly have a stat that high, though. I will say that wouldn't fly in my games, but other people may believe differently and that is, of course, cool.

[Mister E]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Your typical SEAL or Ranger is Superhuman compared to the guy stocking shelves in the grocery store.

 

Your typical SEAL is Superhuman compared to your typical Ranger. ;p

[Mister E]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Batman in his own comic matches wits with crimelords and battles thugs and hired assassins. He faces credible threats in guys like the Penguin (at least their thugs) and he is superhumanly annoying.

 

Batman in the Justice League or any comic with superhumans in it matches wits with super-geniuses is a world class fighter with seeming superhuman resilience to punishment both mental and physical.

 

I can buy lower point totals in his own books, but Batman has been portrayed as "The Worlds Finest Detective," and an expert in Combat, Finance, Sciences, Engineering, and Psychology. There's precious few "mortals" in the DC universe that are portrayed as his equal in anything.

 

There is a word for people who are not Batman, and that word is 'mortal'.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Some of us can remember a time when Batman was 'mortal'.

[Mister E]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

The Bat-computer is miraculous. Bat-logic is beyond comprehension. Batman is not just a superhero. He's Superman's most trusted cohort. There's something special about him.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

On the Captain America front, until someone can show me a real-world example of a human being getting frozen in a block of ice and thawed out alive decades later, I'm going to go with "has superhuman powers, just not very obvious ones."

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

If you are buying Powers, you are superhuman. If you have breaking, not just NCM, but Maximum Characteristics for Normals, then you are superhuman. Some obvious Talents also count as Superhuman, while some don't, and some are in the grey area.

 

Point totals don't matter. Point totals and APs only determine if it is a good idea for you to fight crime or not.

 

 

I wouldn't say getting Powers (in the Hero System mechanics sense) automatically makes a character superhuman. Like allot of things its boils down to special effects. Power can represent everything from perfectly mundane equipment to exceptional (but mundane in the sense any human could theoretically learn them) talents.

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

On the Captain America front' date=' until someone can show me a real-world example of a human being getting frozen in a block of ice and thawed out alive decades later, I'm going to go with "has superhuman powers, just not very obvious ones."[/quote']

 

True, but I've always chalked that up to comic book rubber science. People get frozen inside blocks of ice all the time with no ill effects by characters with ice powers, after all. Though I guess if you wanted to fan wank it there have been accounts of people surviving freezing conditions, being technically dead and revived just not after years. Cap might be the ultimate in human potential in that regard?

[Mister E]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

True' date=' but I've always chalked that up to comic book rubber science. People get frozen inside blocks of ice all the time with no ill effects by characters with ice powers, after all.[/quote']

 

I always figured it was the super-soldier serum that did the trick, but I agree. Cap's having been frozen & preserved for decades could have happened to anyone.

 

Still, it is a part of his superheroic narrative.

[Mister E]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Though I guess if you wanted to fan wank it there have been accounts of people surviving freezing conditions' date=' being technically dead and revived just not after years.[/quote']

 

It's highly improbable. Certainly worth doubting. I would need some very serious proof.

 

Cap might be the ultimate in human potential in that regard?

 

Clearly due to the super-soldier serum, which is unspeakably awesome & not reproducible.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I'm beginning to believe that the line between super human and any other kind of human is a matter of "what the GM says". If super/not super is an important distinction in your campaign, you should probably take care to query your players to ensure what they believe about the matter won't unhinge your scenario at some crucial moment.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I'm beginning to believe that the line between super human and any other kind of human is a matter of "what the GM says". If super/not super is an important distinction in your campaign' date=' you should probably take care to query your players to ensure what they believe about the matter won't unhinge your scenario at some crucial moment.[/quote']

 

Probably the best policy.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I'm beginning to believe that the line between super human and any other kind of human is a matter of "what the GM says". If super/not super is an important distinction in your campaign' date=' you should probably take care to query your players to ensure what they believe about the matter won't unhinge your scenario at some crucial moment.[/quote']

 

Something I've tried to stay in the habit of is making specific note when building characters who get increased characteristics from powers that are not otherwise limited in any way.

The DCU's Flash is a perfect example of this. There is no mechanical reason that requires separating out what extra DEX he got from his powers and what he would have without them but it saves time later if he every faced a villain with the ability to remove his superpowers. If this were to happen to the entire JLA it is quite likely that Batman would end up having the best 'stats' of the team.

[RexMundi]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

On the Captain America front' date=' until someone can show me a real-world example of a human being getting frozen in a block of ice and thawed out alive decades later, I'm going to go with "has superhuman powers, just not very obvious ones."[/quote']

 

They explain the Endurance and being on Ice thing. Again, it fits Comic Book Logic. The Super Soldier Serum just increases the normal Deep Dive reflex and allows for Hibernation as well.....

 

As for the whole coming back from Frozen stuff. Gets better every year and not even that hard to google up if folks need "internet Proof!" to satve off the "Where's the Link!" rage, heh.....

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/british-baby-girl-brought-back-to-life-after-being-frozen-for-three-days/story-fn5fsgyc-1226015463826

 

~Rex

[RexMundi]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

It's highly improbable. Certainly worth doubting. I would need some very serious proof.

 

 

 

Clearly due to the super-soldier serum, which is unspeakably awesome & not reproducible.

 

It has been reproduced. A few times. AND, it has an equivalent process that brings about the same effect but takes much much longer to do. Developed by the same guy even.

 

~Rex....still thinks MVP was one of the better new Marvel characters....

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

It's highly improbable. Certainly worth doubting. I would need some very serious proof.

.

 

Well, there's the link RexMundi provided and there's a been a few other accounts. I was rather impressed with that one myself. The one's I've heard have been matters of minutes, maybe an hour not days.