STD carrier

[Ragitsu]

Be it an HIV infected human, or a sex demon with a vile malady, how would you stat up the harboring and ability to spread an STD in HERO 6th Edition? I'd like to see both a controllable and uncontrollable version, please.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: STD carrier

 

I apologise, I have no mechanical advice to contribute. I simply feel like I've just seen the ultimate expression of the desire of HERO fans to create system stats for everything.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: STD carrier

 

I apologise' date=' I have no mechanical advice to contribute. I simply feel like I've just seen the ultimate expression of the desire of HERO fans to create system stats for everything. [/quote']

 

Yeah, I'm ... actually pretty squicked.

[Ragitsu]

Re: STD carrier

 

Yeah' date=' I'm ... actually pretty squicked.[/quote']

 

How to incinerate someone alive with the fires of creation, a okay. How to stat up super-crabs...squick-worthy?

[Lucius]

Re: STD carrier

 

I apologise' date=' I have no mechanical advice to contribute. I simply feel like I've just seen the ultimate expression of the desire of HERO fans to create system stats for everything. [/quote']

 

Yeah' date=' I'm ... actually pretty squicked.[/quote']

 

While I can't see what Ragitsu actually wrote, judging by the title it's just a specfic case of the more general question "how do you do a communicable disease?"

 

That's been discussed before around here. I might try to see if I can track some old threads down and link them.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says it's understandable if people quickly get sick of the topic

[Greywind]

Re: STD carrier

 

There was one of these for 4th in a Dark Champions book. Called The Germ iirc.

[Lucius]

Re: STD carrier

 

In fact, this isn't the first thread Ragitsu started on the topic of illness

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/81517-Traveling-in-your-typical-modern-day-sewer-what-rolls-for-illness?highlight=disease

 

This has a write up from MarkDoc (who actually IS a doctor and doesn't just play one in a role playing game) using Sticky, which I recall has often been brought up as part of the mechanics for a communicable disease

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/84597-Mad-Cult-Leader-of-the-Elder-God-of-Pestilence?highlight=disease

 

A lot of these threads don't seem to have much in depth discussion though

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/81628-Diseases?highlight=disease

 

This one actually includes still further links to other example threads on the topic, so I think I'll stop harvesting threads at this point.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/80981-Recreational-Drugs-Diseases-and-Poisons?highlight=disease

 

 

But I may give the topic some thought on my own and post on it later.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Life Support: Immune to Palindromedary Borne Diseases

[Enforcer84]

Re: STD carrier

 

How to incinerate someone alive with the fires of creation' date=' a okay. How to stat up super-crabs...squick-worthy?[/quote']

 

Apparently, to at least one person.

[Ragitsu]

Re: STD carrier

 

Admittedly, the former won't come into play within the span of most campaigns, but it'd be nice to at least see it included as an option.

[Greywind]

Re: STD carrier

 

Weren't the "super-crabs" done up in Cloverfield?

[Christopher]

Re: STD carrier

 

I think we must differentiat between two things:

STI and STD.

STI is being infected. From Wikipedia: "Infection simply means that a germ—virus, bacteria, or parasite—that can cause disease or sickness is present inside a person’s body. An infected person does not necessarily have any symptoms or signs that the virus or bacteria is actually hurting his or her body; they do not necessarily feel sick."

STD means it's broken out: "A disease means that the infection is actually causing the infected person to feel sick, or to notice something is wrong."

 

So we first have to agree what "phases" the infection has. I think Incubation, Sickness and Contagion. The later two do not need to coincide (you can be Contagios before you start being sick). Sticky has his game term limits, as it can only make one Jump (carrier to other person; the other person is not contagious). But it still can be used to model the infection process.

 

How about a "self Reapplying transform, Works vs. CON" and maybe plus NND (Immunity to specific Disease)? The chain works following:

Character A has the full disease (is contagious), that means he is consideored havign the Sticky version. Now he infects character B. Character B is not right away Contagious, first the Disease has to "Transform" him in a carrier (one with the Sticky, self reapplying version).

 

Medicine could then be two things: Eihter Limited Regeneration (Only to heal the Transform of Disease X), the Immunity (so the Transform can't reapply itself, healing normally) or both.

[Enforcer84]

Re: STD carrier

 

Admittedly' date=' the former won't come into play within the span of most campaigns, but it'd be nice to at least see it included as an option.[/quote']

 

isn't it already? I mean there are already contagion and disease write ups in the superpowers books and the grimoire, I imagine (I have the former and the 5e version of the latter, but can't recall). The only difference you seem to be interested in is the "delivery method," so to speak and that was the squick-inducing part for CC and the part that made me eyeroll a tad*. Not that it isn't a valid idea for a campaign that features upfront in game sex, but in a game that doesn't what's the point? You just use the disease powers/spells available and say "He got it fooling around where he shouldn't."

 

 

*mostly because the groups I've been in most often would simply be reduced to giggling and stupidness over the idea and it would derail any game for a while whenever the particular condition showed up.

[Ragitsu]

Re: STD carrier

 

isn't it already? I mean there are already contagion and disease write ups in the superpowers books and the grimoire' date=' I imagine (I have the former and the 5e version of the latter, but can't recall). The only difference you seem to be interested in is the "delivery method," so to speak and that was the squick-inducing part for CC and the part that made me eyeroll a tad*. Not that it isn't a valid idea for a campaign that features upfront in game sex, but in a game that doesn't what's the point? [b']You just use the disease powers/spells available and say "He got it fooling around where he shouldn't."[/b]

 

 

*mostly because the groups I've been in most often would simply be reduced to giggling and stupidness over the idea and it would derail any game for a while whenever the particular condition showed up.

 

I guess the issue would be how much of a nuisance "Must engage in sexually intimate contact" would be. -1 at the least, in my opinion.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: STD carrier

 

How to incinerate someone alive with the fires of creation' date=' a okay. How to stat up super-crabs...squick-worthy?[/quote']

 

Nobody in the real world has been incinerated by the fires of creation. Millions of people worldwide suffer from STDs. It seems ... insensitive to me to have it in a game, especially since for a PC it's likely to be curable. This sort of a thing is a touchy subject and needs to be approached VERY carefully.

[Ragitsu]

Re: STD carrier

 

Nobody in the real world has been incinerated by the fires of creation. Millions of people worldwide suffer from STDs. It seems ... insensitive to me to have it in a game' date=' especially since for a PC it's likely to be curable. This sort of a thing is a touchy subject and needs to be approached VERY carefully.[/quote']

 

You've said this before on the subject of cancer too, I believe.

 

Now come on...people get killed by guns (even accidentally), strangulation, car crashes, dehydration, etc, every day of every week of every month of every year. Gamers of all stripes include such things in their games too, and I doubt anyone is trying to be insensitive (well, most of the time: bad guy stuff is probably a bit insensitive).

[Vondy]

Re: STD carrier

 

Without bantering about the aesthetics of the question, I'd probably go with a transform that gives the recipient a physical and social limitation. It would, obviously, not affect someone with immunity to disease, etc. The level of transform (cosmetic, etc) should probably be linked to the effects of the disease (from mildly annoying and uncomfortable to long-term lethal). It would heal back through medicine (or amazing healing powers) as apropos. That said, if a sniggering GM were to infect one of my PCs with an STD I'd just close my books, pack my bags, and walk out FOR GOOD. But that is another story...

[Ragitsu]

Re: STD carrier

 

Without bantering about the aesthetics of the question' date=' I'd probably go with a transform that gives the recipient a physical and social limitation. It would, obviously, not affect someone with immunity to disease, etc. The level of transform (cosmetic, etc) should probably be linked to the effects of the disease (from mildly annoying and uncomfortable to long-term lethal). It would heal back through medicine (or amazing healing powers) as apropos. That said, if a sniggering GM were to infect one of my PCs with an STD I'd just close my books, pack my bags, and walk out FOR GOOD. But that is another story...[/quote']

 

How much of a discount do you think the hindrance getting that Transform to work would be?

[Lucius]

Re: STD carrier

 

Nobody in the real world has been incinerated by the fires of creation. Millions of people worldwide suffer from STDs. It seems ... insensitive to me to have it in a game' date=' especially since for a PC it's likely to be curable. This sort of a thing is a touchy subject and needs to be approached VERY carefully.[/quote']

 

On the other hand, "fires of creation" aside, people die by violence every day; and mundane violence involving guns, bludgeons, blades, teeth and claws, or bare handed mayhem, are also an everyday part of role playing games.

 

Mind you, I agree with you that this is a touchy subject and should be approached carefully. I just don't think the reason we feel that way necessarily has much to do with how many people worldwide suffer from something, or we'd be just as squicked by all common forms of violence.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

On the other hand, how many people do you know who have been bitten by a palindromedary?

[Lucius]

Re: STD carrier

 

Without bantering about the aesthetics of the question' date=' I'd probably go with a transform that gives the recipient a physical and social limitation. It would, obviously, not affect someone with immunity to disease, etc. The level of transform (cosmetic, etc) should probably be linked to the effects of the disease (from mildly annoying and uncomfortable to long-term lethal). It would heal back through medicine (or amazing healing powers) as apropos. That said, if a sniggering GM were to infect one of my PCs with an STD I'd just close my books, pack my bags, and walk out FOR GOOD. But that is another story...[/quote']

 

I was already thinking towards using Transform. Largely because the current edition's version of Sticky doesn't allow for the spread of contagion, but a Transform effect can include bestowing an identical Transform with No Conscious Control.

 

The major drawback I see to Transform is that it necessitates a "reversion condition" (by default, normal healing times) so if a disease is in campaign terms truly incurable, you still require a "hand wave" - so maybe you might as well house rule back some version of the old Sticky that keeps going.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says it sounds like a sticky subject

[Christopher]

Re: STD carrier

 

You've said this before on the subject of cancer too, I believe.

 

Now come on...people get killed by guns (even accidentally), strangulation, car crashes, dehydration, etc, every day of every week of every month of every year. Gamers of all stripes include such things in their games too, and I doubt anyone is trying to be insensitive (well, most of the time: bad guy stuff is probably a bit insensitive).

 

[...] people die by violence every day; and mundane violence involving guns, bludgeons, blades, teeth and claws, or bare handed mayhem, are also an everyday part of role playing games.

 

Mind you, I agree with you that this is a touchy subject and should be approached carefully. I just don't think the reason we feel that way necessarily has much to do with how many people worldwide suffer from something, or we'd be just as squicked by all common forms of violence.

I agree with them. We use even the worst forms of crimes in our Superhero Stories. I mean a Doomsday device - practically atempted mass murder on the entire humanity (or at least a continent). Mechanons entire target is a Geoncide on all living beings (not limited to humanity).

 

The Four horseman of the apocalypse are: Pestilence, War, Famine and Death. We regulary use War adn Death in our games, no reason to exclude Pestilence and Famine here.

[Enforcer84]

Re: STD carrier

 

I guess the issue would be how much of a nuisance "Must engage in sexually intimate contact" would be. -1 at the least' date=' in my opinion.[/quote']

 

Maybe. I wouldn't give it a limitation. Unless you're planning on playing out the "Deed" as the limitation won't really come into play. Certainly not a combat applicable power. So once again you're dealing with how much of this do you want to "Show." Basically it's a plot device (and IMO a lame one)

 

This kind of power, would you use it against your players? It seems to me they'd need to be charmed/seduced or "I'll do anything that comes on to me." I think they'd be rather upset about it. (like the roll for random sexual disease charts - never very popular) It's also not the sort of power I could see many heroes taking.

 

So I suppose if you're playing a villain game where the player wants to infect others with their seed, or as an intellectual exercise, it could load it with all sorts of limitations, requires sexual contact, requires a a Charm/Seduction skill, extra time...requires blood transfusion...

[Enforcer84]

Re: STD carrier

 

You've said this before on the subject of cancer too, I believe.

 

Now come on...people get killed by guns (even accidentally), strangulation, car crashes, dehydration, etc, every day of every week of every month of every year. Gamers of all stripes include such things in their games too, and I doubt anyone is trying to be insensitive (well, most of the time: bad guy stuff is probably a bit insensitive).

 

Well...having your hero taken out by the Fires of Creation while saving the day is one thing. Having them die slowly because you secretly inserted an STD to their DNPC girlfriend would be something else entirely. Few gamers go into a game envisioning their character being felled by AIDS or Cancer. Nuclear explosions or decapitation in combat? That's par for the course.

[Enforcer84]

Re: STD carrier

 

I agree with them. We use even the worst forms of crimes in our Superhero Stories. I mean a Doomsday device - practically atempted mass murder on the entire humanity (or at least a continent). Mechanons entire target is a Geoncide on all living beings (not limited to humanity).

 

The Four horseman of the apocalypse are: Pestilence, War, Famine and Death. We regulary use War adn Death in our games, no reason to exclude Pestilence and Famine here.

 

I haven't excluded them. Disease carriers have been in comics quite a bit. Just not VD carriers.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: STD carrier

 

Well...having your hero taken out by the Fires of Creation while saving the day is one thing. Having them die slowly because you secretly inserted an STD to their DNPC girlfriend would be something else entirely. Few gamers go into a game envisioning their character being felled by AIDS or Cancer. Nuclear explosions or decapitation in combat? That's par for the course.

 

Precisely.

[Christopher]

Re: STD carrier

 

I haven't excluded them. Disease carriers have been in comics quite a bit. Just not VD carriers.

Then I thank you for giving Pestilence a chance and not being a "Pestilencist".

 

But seriuos again:

I don't know if that is really a medical fact but in Dr. House there was one chase where the sleeping sickness was transmitted by sex and House remarked "every Disease transmitable by blood, is transmitable by sex" with "and vice-versa" implied.

And especially Iron Age comics/campaings such things are far more likely to deal with it. Speedy (Green Arrows Sidekick) had a drug addiction. Mr. Freezes Wife is sometimes depicted as having a fictional, terminal disease (and thus he put her into cryogenic stasis and made himself immortal, so he has time to find a cure).

Sure, such iron games/ideas are not everybodys type and you must make certain it is before bringing it on the table. But you can't just generally say cancer/AIDS/other terminal disease is sensitive, there is no games in wich it can't be used.

 

And for the STD "in" your girlfriend - either she got it from contaminated blood (adventure hook), she had an affair (having DNCP/In Love with Complications in action), or perhaps an addiction to an injectible drug.