Ninja-Bear Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? I'm not going anywhere with it. I just didn't understand why that was a given. Biblically speaking witches were evil and to be killed but not everyone holds to that. so you consider all mediums evil even when they summon or converse with "good" spirits? I said it was a given being that this was and Old Testement story all witches are evil, period. If you would play Testement the RPG (from Green Ronin), and play a witch, (I think the Phillistines allow you to; I can check) then expect the Israelites to be gunning (or would that be swording?) for yay! I gues the question is how can you confuse "Thou shall not!"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? I said it was a given being that this was and Old Testement story all witches are evil, period. If you would play Testement the RPG (from Green Ronin), and play a witch, (I think the Phillistines allow you to; I can check) then expect the Israelites to be gunning (or would that be swording?) for yay! I gues the question is how can you confuse "Thou shall not!"? If you're thinking of the line "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," I understand that scholars regard the word "witch" as being a mistranslation of "poisoner." Specifically implying, one who poisons wells. So apparently some confusion is easier to come by than you think. Lucius Alexanders The palindromedary is confused about how much confusion there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Of course, in those days, people probably thought the wells got poisoned through witchcraft most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? If you're thinking of the line "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," I understand that scholars regard the word "witch" as being a mistranslation of "poisoner." Specifically implying, one who poisons wells. So apparently some confusion is easier to come by than you think. Lucius Alexanders The palindromedary is confused about how much confusion there is. Seconded - I've heard that from more than one source; I also remembering looking up the translation of the word I was given, myself. Translated to "Poisoner'. So, yeah. Poisoner = Deliberate, careless, casual (<-usually) first-degree murder. And that's how you confuse it - Mis-translations, bad translations, deliberate re-writes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Seconded - I've heard that from more than one source; I also remembering looking up the translation of the word I was given, myself. Translated to "Poisoner'. So, yeah. Poisoner = Deliberate, careless, casual (<-usually) first-degree murder. And that's how you confuse it - Mis-translations, bad translations, deliberate re-writes... A king with a paranoia about witchcraft (James) and translators having to keep him happy.. Lucius Alexander Just don't blame a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? If you go with the "ghosts as pyschic imprints" theory, then it make sense that people who die in healthy mental states tend not to be agitated enough to leave said imprints. Hence, most ghosts are rather messed up, because they're basically just a copy of the "top layer" of someone who's REALLY UPSET at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Lucius have you read Deut 18:10-12? And it talks about how necromancers, charmers, those with familiars (is a palindromedary a familiar?), etcetera are an abomination unto the LORD? And the translation is well backed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Lucius have you read Deut 18:10-12? And it talks about how necromancers' date=' charmers, those with familiars (is a palindromedary a familiar?), etcetera are an abomination unto the LORD? And the translation is well backed up?[/quote'] Well, the first question is, the Bible actually uses none of those words. What's the words it used originally, what's the possible translations and what's the original context? For example, "any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire" refers to a practice of burning babies alive. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Well, the first question is, the Bible actually uses none of those words. What's the words it used originally, what's the possible translations and what's the original context? For example, "any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire" refers to a practice of burning babies alive. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=741530 I looked up witches and strong concordence didn't have a word for it. Nor could I work the program to figure out what word was orginally. But that is why I suggested Deuteronomy. It talks about charmers, necromaners, and such and Necromancer is in Strongs concordence. If you aint dealing with God, then its evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? I looked up witches and strong concordence didn't have a word for it. Nor could I work the program to figure out what word was orginally. But that is why I suggested Deuteronomy. It talks about charmers' date=' necromaners, and such and Necromancer is in Strongs concordence. If you aint dealing with God, then its evil.[/quote'] What about the other words? Original contexts? I've provided context for one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Lucius have you read Deut 18:10-12? Not in the original Hebrew. Lucius Alexander (is a palindromedary a familiar?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revenant Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Well, in going with the conversation, I'm a Christian and I don't think all ghosts are evil. I know for a fact that my Grandmother's house was watched over every night by my Grandfather's ghost. I've never felt so safe anywhere else, and this was in a very crime ridden area. There was just a tangible feeling of my Grandfather watching over us, plus the footsteps every night from the front door into the hall between the bedrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Lucius have you read Deut 18:10-12? And it talks about how necromancers' date=' charmers, those with familiars (is a palindromedary a familiar?), etcetera are an abomination unto the LORD? And the translation is well backed up?[/quote'] Not in the original Klingon. Lucius Alexander Fixed that for you and your palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? A king with a paranoia about witchcraft (James) and translators having to keep him happy.. Lucius Alexander Just don't blame a palindromedary Looked up the John Wycliffe's verison and he uses the word witch. I bring this up cause Wycliffe translated the first version in English 200 years before the King James version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Looked up the John Wycliffe's verison and he uses the word witch. I bring this up cause Wycliffe translated the first version in English 200 years before the King James version. I wouldn't be surprised if the James team had a copy of Wycliffe. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary wants the Wycliffe's Notes Version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? I wouldn't be surprised if the James team had a copy of Wycliffe. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary wants the Wycliffe's Notes Version Very possibly true. At some point (to me) you just have to have faith in the experts. Just as the experts claim Pluto is (or was) a planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Very possibly true. At some point (to me) you just have to have faith in the experts. Just as the experts claim Pluto is (or was) a planet. I'd rather have faith in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Very possibly true. At some point (to me) you just have to have faith in the experts. Just as the experts claim Pluto is (or was) a planet. Dammit, Pluto is a planet. PLUTO! PLANET!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? One person here mentioned dying might drive a ghost insane. I've got another idea. While no decent person would want someone to perpetually grieve over them. It could quite painful emotionally to see loved ones forget you and move on. No matter how much you would want them to. And that could quite "seem" the case. I mean feeling forgotten often can cause the living to something drastic like commit suicide, the dead dont exactly have such drastic options and are stuck in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? The Egyptians...at some points...believed that every human had multiple "souls". There was one that went on to better things, but there was also one that could be left behind that contained all that was worst in the deceased. Amusingly, none of the ghosts in Ghostbusters were in fact the souls of deceased people. Rather they were emotional echoes, created when someone dies in the grip of strong emotions like fear or anger. They couldn't be reasoned with because they weren't actually people. They were nonsentient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsoul Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? The Egyptians...at some points...believed that every human had multiple "souls". There was one that went on to better things' date=' but there was also one that could be left behind that contained all that was worst in the deceased. Amusingly, none of the ghosts in Ghostbusters were in fact the souls of deceased people. Rather they were emotional echoes, created when someone dies in the grip of strong emotions like fear or anger. They couldn't be reasoned with because they weren't actually people. They were nonsentient.[/quote'] I wonder, would it be interesting/fun to create a kind of hierarchy of ghosts that could be encountered in a Fantasy World? Some ghosts are simply echoes of powerful emotion or a traumatic death, not actually a soul trapped on the mortal plane; they are weaker, (or at least less intelligent), than those ghosts who are actually complete souls that have either failed or refused to pass onto the afterlife. The first type could be called Echoes or Fragments. The second type could be Ghosts, Spectres or Liches. Ghosts may be more mobile than Echoes, (not tied to a specific place), and might even be able to command these lesser spirits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Re: All ghosts evil? I think you could use the Chill source books to do that. I seem to remember there different levels spirit activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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