She kicks hard

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: She kicks hard

 

How "limited" is this? How often will the character be in situations where they can freely punch, elbow smash, headbutt, etc., but kicking is not possible?

 

The Blaster generally Blasts with eyebeams, or psychic beams, or a chest beam, or from his hands, etc., and the actual point of origin has negligible, if any, impact on the game. Simply defining the martial maneuvers as kicks may be all that is really needed here - it's just SFX.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Some games allow called shots even if Hit Locations are not used for most hits.

 

Thanks for pointing that out -- saved me the trouble.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: She kicks hard

 

But for most part you can just make a high powered Blast, apply reduced penetartion and call it "Headshot". No Attack penalty, no GM persmission (asuming it fits the campaigns DC limits) and you know what effect you get and pay for it the normal price.

Also Nerve Strike includes (among others) the "called shot to the nuts". Even without Martial Arts just build a NND HTH (Defense is Hard protection in the "vital" area or not having that area) and you are done, regardless if you use Hit Locations or not.

 

Why on earth would you apply Reduced Penetration, which lowers damage, on a move called "Headshot" when headshots actually increase the damage done?

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

The Blaster generally Blasts with eyebeams' date=' or psychic beams, or a chest beam, or from his hands, etc., and the actual point of origin has negligible, if any, impact on the game. Simply defining the martial maneuvers as kicks may be all that is really needed here - it's just SFX.[/quote']

Grab Head: No Eyebeams against me today

Grab both arms: No Armbeam against me today

Grab and Controll: Have fun hitting the ground with your chestbeam

 

As you see the point of origin can matter a lot.

 

Why on earth would you apply Reduced Penetration' date=' which lowers damage, on a move called "Headshot" when headshots actually [i']increase[/i] the damage done?

Hit in the Head doubles the damage after defenses. Reduced penetartion mimiks that mostly (even the non-doubled KB). Of course you could go on without it, but perhaps it is a good way to get the GM to allow you higher DC? (you might still get better STUN)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Grab Head: No Eyebeams against me today

Grab both arms: No Armbeam against me today

Grab and Controll: Have fun hitting the ground with your chestbeam

 

As you see the point of origin can matter a lot.

Yes, but you don't get to put a Limitation on your eye beams just because someone might someday grab you from behind. So should a MA get a Limitation because someday you might be in a situation where you couldn't kick?

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Yes' date=' but you don't get to put a Limitation on your eye beams just because someone might someday grab you from behind. So should a MA get a Limitation because someday you might be in a situation where you couldn't kick?[/quote']

No, you have to put an +5 Adder on it if it can't be disabled with a Grab.

 

So we seem to agree that this "Kick's hard" is just the origin point for a HTH attack or Martial Arts Maneuver, no Limitation Value.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Grab Head: No Eyebeams against me today

Grab both arms: No Armbeam against me today

Grab and Controll: Have fun hitting the ground with your chestbeam

 

As you see the point of origin can matter a lot.

 

And Grabbing the martial artist is just as effective.

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

And Grabbing the martial artist is just as effective.

Yes, becaus every Strike based Martial Maneuver is a Short Written HTH-Attack/Killing Attack with clearly defined Origin Point.

[Bloodstone]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Yes' date=' becaus every Strike based Martial Maneuver is a Short Written HTH-Attack/Killing Attack with clearly defined Origin Point.[/quote']

 

Some of them have multiple origin points...

 

In Muay Thai, for example, both Knee and Elbow are origin points for the Killing Strike.

 

Hwarang-Do uses Hand, Elbow and Snap Kick for Martial Strike, while Capoeira uses both the Punch and Front Kick for it's Martial Strike.

 

(unless that changed in 6E. Don't have HSMA in front of me to check)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Yes' date=' becaus every Strike based Martial Maneuver is a Short Written HTH-Attack/Killing Attack with clearly defined Origin Point.[/quote']

 

Some of them have multiple origin points...

 

Exactly. There is no requirement to define a specific point of origin for a HTH strike, or for similar maneuvers. And this does not seem to provide such abilities wth a significant advantage over a character with a Blast with one specified point of origin. How often do you see that Muay Thai, Capoeira or Hwarang-Do user able to attack effectively where a boxer or a Savate user would be unable to attack?

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Is in the HSMA 6E too. But putting advantages on 6E martial Arts is a Yield Sign at least. MA Maneuvers are already very cheap for the effect you get and putting advantages on them makes them more difficulty from the balancing aspect.

But the idea of using something like AP to make the Kick stronger is interesting. HSMA had similar ideas, like an "unblockable" Punch (Indirect).

 

Overall it might be better to use normal HTH attacks when you want to use advantages together with marital arts.

 

Forgot to mention that using a manuever bought this way is also increases the end of the manuever.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Exactly. There is no requirement to define a specific point of origin for a HTH strike' date=' or for similar maneuvers. And this does not seem to provide such abilities wth a significant advantage over a character with a Blast with one specified point of origin. How often do you see that Muay Thai, Capoeira or Hwarang-Do user able to attack effectively where a boxer or a Savate user would be unable to attack?[/quote']

 

Fwiw, I just wanted to say, in a typical Champions game, as the op specified, this is true. In other martial arts games, where I have used the optional hit location, then this does come into play. It depemds on what game your playing.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: She kicks hard

 

In older editions, some Arts included buying the same maneuver (eg. Martial Strike) multiple times to reflect different variants (eg. knee smash and elbow smash). That seems like overkill, but in games where this point of origin may be more relevant (eg. disabling wounds, optional hit locations), perhaps there should be some cost for having greater choice in using the maneuver. Perhaps +1 point for the ability to use the maneuver with an extra limb (so, for +2 points, I know a Martial Strike using hands/arms, legs/feet and headbutt).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

In older editions' date=' some Arts included buying the same maneuver (eg. Martial Strike) multiple times to reflect different variants (eg. knee smash and elbow smash). That seems like overkill, but in games where this point of origin may be more relevant (eg. disabling wounds, optional hit locations), perhaps there should be some cost for having greater choice in using the maneuver. Perhaps +1 point for the ability to use the maneuver with an extra limb (so, for +2 points, I know a Martial Strike using hands/arms, legs/feet and headbutt).[/quote']

 

This is what I've described before as a granularity of detail that can be wildly different between different games in the same genre let alone different genres.

 

For example, here is a 5e version of Jason Bourne I built on 520 points that wouldn't be able to do much against any 5e 350 point super (mainly because of the different scales of defenses and other powers a super would have access to). My version of Bourne has 3 different martial strikes that vary mainly in damage and CV bonuses. From a point value standpoint it would have made more sense to just pick 1 and add CSL's instead.

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Exactly. There is no requirement to define a specific point of origin for a HTH strike' date=' or for similar maneuvers. And this does not seem to provide such abilities wth a significant advantage over a character with a Blast with one specified point of origin. How often do you see that Muay Thai, Capoeira or Hwarang-Do user able to attack effectively where a boxer or a Savate user would be unable to attack?[/quote']

6E1 126 says there is. But it is of course more relevant for Powers (especially energy powers) and most martial Arts still have a clear definition for every single Strike based Maneuver.

Also I don't usually see Martial Arts users. Much less do I see them, when their hands are tied. But if it should happen, of course I would give the Capoeira/Muay thai/Hwarang-Do user the advantage. The same way I would give him the disadvantage when the enemy is smart enough to use hand-and-feet shackles and only his hands were untied.

 

Forgot to mention that using a manuever bought this way is also increases the end of the manuever.

I already said "HTH attack with no END" and "Limited STR with no END" once or twice, so I didn't felt like repeating it again.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: She kicks hard

 

You don't usually see Martial Arts users? How many Hero games have you played? I admit, I'm on the low end since there are not many Hero players in my area so I've been limited to mostly online and con games, but I've seen characters with Martial Arts in almost every Champions game I've played and all the Fantasy Hero games I've played. Maybe not the Martial Artist archtype, but at least one or two characters who use at least some MAs.

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

You don't usually see Martial Arts users? How many Hero games have you played?.

Was talkign about Real Life.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Was talkign about Real Life.

Well, in Real Life I see a lot more martial artists than I see Super Speedsters or Flying Bricks so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Have we considered simply Extra Strength, Legs Only?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Have we considered simply Extra Strength' date=' Legs Only?[/quote']

 

Brilliant. Simply brilliant. Must spread rep and all that.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Have we considered simply Extra Strength' date=' Legs Only?[/quote']

 

Yes.

I suggested a bonus HA (which already IS limited STR) back on post#2 and limiting it to Only attacks using legs on post#4.

[Lucius]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Have we considered simply Extra Strength' date=' Legs Only?[/quote']

 

An Extra Strength Solution

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks, twice as much active ingredient per unit of volume?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Yes.

I suggested a bonus HA (which already IS limited STR) back on post#2 and limiting it to Only attacks using legs on post#4.

 

Not HA, extra STR. It would apply to leg-presses, for example, and other non-attack uses of the legs ... potentially some grapples, for example, involving leglocks, as well as leaping.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Not HA' date=' extra STR. It would apply to leg-presses, for example, and other non-attack uses of the legs ... potentially some grapples, for example, involving leglocks, as well as leaping.[/quote']

 

And what does that have to do with the OP's request here:

 

How can I limit it to not affect maneuvers that are not kicks? Are limited combat skill levels the better way to go?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: She kicks hard

 

6E1 126 says there is. But it is of course more relevant for Powers (especially energy powers) and most martial Arts still have a clear definition for every single Strike based Maneuver.

 

No, it says that powers have a point of origin. That page does not discuss combat maneuvers, martial or otherwise.