She kicks hard

[Steve]

I'm building a female martial artist character who has a complete martial arts package of punches and kicks using kung fu, but she kicks really hard. One way I thought to do this is to buy up her regular martial arts damage with STR and Extra Damage Classes, but then to add a couple of dice of HTH Attack with the Restrainable Limitation.

[Escafarc]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Skill Levels only to add damage to kicks.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

HA attacks are already restrainable by the definition of that power. But some form of bonus HA is probably the way to go.

[Steve]

Re: She kicks hard

 

How can I limit it to not affect maneuvers that are not kicks? Are limited combat skill levels the better way to go?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

How can I limit it to not affect maneuvers that are not kicks? Are limited combat skill levels the better way to go?

 

Only with attacks using legs (-1/2 or -1/4)

 

CSL's with Feet?

[Lucius]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Under what circumstances is she likely to be able to use another move, but not able to use a kick?

 

How often are such circumstances likely to arise?

 

These questions need to be addressed before deciding if some kind of "Limitation" is required.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is thinking about it.

[L. Marcus]

Re: She kicks hard

 

I'd do this as a straight-up unlimited HA, with the SFX of kicks/strong legs. Also, extra Leaping and Running!

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Generally martial Arts and HTA Attacks are not compatible (in fact even Naked Advantages to STR and HA have to be bought seperately), so you end up buying the entire difference between normal STR and HTH and then some (the extra "punch") manually.

 

How about just make a "Martial kick" with the maximum possible number of bonus DC (+4) and keep the other attacks lower (+0 to +2; with HSMA you can build your own maneuvers)?

 

Hyper Already noted it:

You have to define the origin point of a attack power. Being it clawed hands, laserbeam eyes or "kick like a donkey".

 

And lucius already noticed, that the question is:

How much of a limitation will it be? Unless this is some really wierd campaign where wearing feet shakels is very common, this won't be worth any limitation value.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Under what circumstances is she likely to be able to use another move, but not able to use a kick?

 

How often are such circumstances likely to arise?

 

These questions need to be addressed before deciding if some kind of "Limitation" is required.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is thinking about it.

 

Martial Maneuvers can certainly be defined as kicks only and get to use a slightly modified Hit Location Roll as a result. Building bonus HA dice that only applies to Kicks is certainly a Limitation as long as the character also has MA maneuvers defined as using other body parts besides legs/feet.

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Martial Maneuvers can certainly be defined as kicks only and get to use a slightly modified Hit Location Roll as a result. Building bonus HA dice that only applies to Kicks is certainly a Limitation as long as the character also has MA maneuvers defined as using other body parts besides legs/feet.

Isn't that just adding Active Points to a HTH attack?

The normal 8d6 HTH

and an additional +4d6 HTH.

Still costs the same, unless limitated differently.

[Bloodstone]

Re: She kicks hard

 

I don't want to say it's not worth a limitation, because obviously "Master of Unarmed Combat" +xd6 HA is way less limited than "Kicks Like A Mule, But Punches Like a Wuss" +xd6 HA.

 

But if you look at most of the write ups, it's often not given a limitation because of the SFX oriented way martial arts work.

 

For example, if you write up Daredevil's Bully Clubs (lets call it a +3d6 HA, OAF), he doesn't necessarily get to use that billy club with a Legsweep that you have defined as an iron broom style spinning sweep kick, Passing Strike defined as a flying side kick or a Quick Strike defined as a Head Butt. Even if he has Use Art with Clubs. It's possibly you could use the billy club with these maneuvers if they were defined differently though. It's similar to how Boxers don't typically get to use Offense Strike to throw both kicks and punches, even though other martial arts have the exact same maneuver defined that way. Boxers punch and that just the way the arts maneuvers are defined.

 

However Tigerlilly in Champions Worldwide/Champions Villains Vol 2 has bonus DC's with her Knee Strike that get, I believe, a -1 limitation. So there is a precedent for it (though in her case each power can only only be used with one or two maneuvers).

 

So, I think it kinda depends on:

 

-how many kicks she has

-how her martial arts are defined

-how fluid your GM's interpretation of the martial arts rules

 

Myself, I'd almost certainly allow a limitation but the value is really going to depend on how many non kicks maneuvers she has.

 

Another option is you may just want to buy her kicking ability as a +xd6 HA and then skill levels with that HA, instead of having the dice add to her various maneuvers. But that may not be ideal if you want to use things like Legsweep.

[ghost-angel]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Why not just Martial Damage Classes "Only With Kicks -1/4"

[Steve]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Why not just Martial Damage Classes "Only With Kicks -1/4"

 

Unfortunately, that's not an option since you can't put any Limitations on Extra Damage Classes.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Generally martial Arts and HTA Attacks are not compatible (in fact even Naked Advantages to STR and HA have to be bought seperately), so you end up buying the entire difference between normal STR and HTH and then some (the extra "punch") manually.

 

...

 

First, no one mentioned anything about Advantaged HA's. Unadvantaged HA's are perfectly legal to be combined with Martial Arts (a Staff is built as a HA, Martial Arts can take a weapon element to allow use with Staff. Limitations like focus are not always appropriate or necessary.)

 

Second, other sources of damage* without Advantages CAN be added to an Advantaged attack, they just have to be pro-rated based on the amount of advantages on the base power.

 

Say you have a character with a 6d6 HA with Penetrating (+1/2) and a 15 STR and a Martial Strike (+2d6) and +4 Martial Damage Classes.

Combining it all together the character can do a total of 12d6 Penetrating [6d6 base + 2d6 from STR (3d6/1.5) + 4d6 from MA (6d6/1.5)]

See 6e2 page 102 for more detail (the example for HKA applies equally to an Advantaged HA).

[Steve]

Re: She kicks hard

 

I don't want to say it's not worth a limitation, because obviously "Master of Unarmed Combat" +xd6 HA is way less limited than "Kicks Like A Mule, But Punches Like a Wuss" +xd6 HA.

 

But if you look at most of the write ups, it's often not given a limitation because of the SFX oriented way martial arts work.

 

For example, if you write up Daredevil's Bully Clubs (lets call it a +3d6 HA, OAF), he doesn't necessarily get to use that billy club with a Legsweep that you have defined as an iron broom style spinning sweep kick, Passing Strike defined as a flying side kick or a Quick Strike defined as a Head Butt. Even if he has Use Art with Clubs. It's possibly you could use the billy club with these maneuvers if they were defined differently though. It's similar to how Boxers don't typically get to use Offense Strike to throw both kicks and punches, even though other martial arts have the exact same maneuver defined that way. Boxers punch and that just the way the arts maneuvers are defined.

 

However Tigerlilly in Champions Worldwide/Champions Villains Vol 2 has bonus DC's with her Knee Strike that get, I believe, a -1 limitation. So there is a precedent for it (though in her case each power can only only be used with one or two maneuvers).

 

So, I think it kinda depends on:

 

-how many kicks she has

-how her martial arts are defined

-how fluid your GM's interpretation of the martial arts rules

 

Myself, I'd almost certainly allow a limitation but the value is really going to depend on how many non kicks maneuvers she has.

 

Another option is you may just want to buy her kicking ability as a +xd6 HA and then skill levels with that HA, instead of having the dice add to her various maneuvers. But that may not be ideal if you want to use things like Legsweep.

 

I'd rep you, but I need to spread rep...etc.

 

Thanks for mentioning Tiger Lily. She is the perfect example of what I am looking for. She has several types of strikes, and she also has a Limited HA that only affects her Knee Strike maneuver.

 

So in an official example, buying HA that only adds to a single maneuver is -1. That gives me something to use for reference as I craft my high-kicking kung fu girl.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: She kicks hard

 

I once wrote up a female martial artist with Penalty Skill Levels, bought with the limitation: only for hit location 13 (vitals). The power was defined as "Hitting 'em where it hurts." She didn't have extra DC's as such, but if she needed it, she always got the damage multiplier for a vitals hit....

 

Add another limitation for "only with kicks" and you'll get the same effect.

[ghost-angel]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Unfortunately' date=' that's not an option since you can't put any Limitations on Extra Damage Classes.[/quote']

 

Book says "generally cannot" and personally, I'd allow it.

 

But hey, if you're going that strict: 3 Point Combat Skill Levels; Only For Kick Martial Maneuvers (-1/2); or 2 Point CSLs "Kicks" (assuming the GM allows the idea of 'kicks' to be a single attack)

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

But if you look at most of the write ups' date=' it's often not given a limitation because of the SFX oriented way martial arts work.[/quote']

I don't think it's an SFX. As I see martial Arts, it's just a pre-defined Multipower with fixed slots.

Slots are usually HTH-Attacks, with no END cost or Limited STR (only to escape, only to grab, only to disarm).

So each Strike based maneuver is just a short write up for 08/15 HTH attack with clearly defined origin point.

 

Also, adding the same bonus to multiple HTH-Attacks at once might be a balancing problem. Even with the optional rules for Naked Advantages on Martial Maneuvers, you can't buy naked group advantages on them. They are perhaps already to cheap to allow further point saving.

 

Sometiems it is a lot easier to build Martial Arts as a "HTH Attack, No End, Alterable Origin Point" + "Limited STR, Only things extra Martial Art's DC can add to" to get the ultimate martial Arts.

[Bloodstone]

Re: She kicks hard

 

I once wrote up a female martial artist with Penalty Skill Levels, bought with the limitation: only for hit location 13 (vitals). The power was defined as "Hitting 'em where it hurts." She didn't have extra DC's as such, but if she needed it, she always got the damage multiplier for a vitals hit....

 

Add another limitation for "only with kicks" and you'll get the same effect.

 

 

Spoiler, since video contains not very nice language...

 

 

 

 

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

This doesn't works if your games doesn't uses Hit Locations.

[Steve]

Re: She kicks hard

 

This is for a Champions game, so the limited HA is how I'm going. The feedback has been great, so thanks everyone.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: She kicks hard

 

This doesn't works if your games doesn't uses Hit Locations.

 

Some games allow called shots even if Hit Locations are not used for most hits.

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Some games allow called shots even if Hit Locations are not used for most hits.

But for most part you can just make a high powered Blast, apply reduced penetartion and call it "Headshot". No Attack penalty, no GM persmission (asuming it fits the campaigns DC limits) and you know what effect you get and pay for it the normal price.

Also Nerve Strike includes (among others) the "called shot to the nuts". Even without Martial Arts just build a NND HTH (Defense is Hard protection in the "vital" area or not having that area) and you are done, regardless if you use Hit Locations or not.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Have you thought about buying an advantage on the martial manuever? In the ultimate martial artists book (5th) you can do it. The math takes a second or two to figure out. In fact there is an example (I think kickmaster) the advantage is armor piercing. That could represent a strong kick.

[Christopher]

Re: She kicks hard

 

Have you thought about buying an advantage on the martial manuever? In the ultimate martial artists book (5th) you can do it. The math takes a second or two to figure out. In fact there is an example (I think kickmaster) the advantage is armor piercing. That could represent a strong kick.

Is in the HSMA 6E too. But putting advantages on 6E martial Arts is a Yield Sign at least. MA Maneuvers are already very cheap for the effect you get and putting advantages on them makes them more difficulty from the balancing aspect.

But the idea of using something like AP to make the Kick stronger is interesting. HSMA had similar ideas, like an "unblockable" Punch (Indirect).

 

Overall it might be better to use normal HTH attacks when you want to use advantages together with marital arts.