Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

I'm looking at developing a Banish Demon spell and I want to utilize Extradimensional Movement as the power to do so. I'm just not sure of how to go about building it to reflect what I want.

 

Fundamentally, I want it to be a spell that can only be cast upon demons and cannot be used on other PC's or the caster himself. It can only be used against others, in other words, and can be used against the targets will. I'd like it to be an all or nothing spell that can be resisted by the demons EGO. The spell should be based on OMCV/DMCV.

 

I'm not worried about the specifics of casting the spell as that will be different according to the spell casting tradition.

 

Any and all suggestions are welcome

[ghostwolf]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Banish Demon: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally, Grantor can only grant the power to others (40 Active Points); Only usable against Demons (-1), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

 

AP: 40

RC: 14

[dmjalund]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

of course if demons are bigger than 100kg, this spell would cost more

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I'm looking at developing a Banish Demon spell and I want to utilize Extradimensional Movement as the power to do so. I'm just not sure of how to go about building it to reflect what I want.

 

Fundamentally, I want it to be a spell that can only be cast upon demons and cannot be used on other PC's or the caster himself. It can only be used against others, in other words, and can be used against the targets will. I'd like it to be an all or nothing spell that can be resisted by the demons EGO. The spell should be based on OMCV/DMCV.

 

Banish Demon: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension)' date=' Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally, Grantor can only grant the power to others (40 Active Points); Only usable against Demons (-1), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)[/quote']

 

Looks like a good baseline, but doesn't have the flavour Mayapuppies seems to be looking for. First, it probably needs Attack vs Alternate CV to be targeted using MOCV vs MDCV. Second, I'd add Requires a Roll such that an opposed Ego roll needs to be made for the attack to be successful. That seems to cover Mayapuppies' desired power structure.

 

Finally, UAA requires a reasonably common defense. I'd suggest counter-rituals which can render the demon immune to banishment. Depending on how common these are to be in the game, that might be an added advantage (similar to making the defense for an AVAD less common). Alternatively, perhaps success at the opposed Ego roll should be the defense, rather than a limitation on the spell.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Something like this?

Banish Demon: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension), x4 Increased Weight, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally, Grantor can only grant the power to others (67 Active Points); Conditional Power (Only vs. Demons; -1), Requires A Roll (Characteristic roll; EGO vs. EGO; -1/2)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Looks good - still needs a defense, but that could be pretty campaign-specific.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Hmmm. Looks to me like it is a godly power - providing the ability to cast out demons.

 

I think I would have demons built with a complication that they can be banished and have the grantor have a Transform power that provides the recipient with a perk that allows them to banish demons and a base PS: Exorcist 11- :-)

 

 

Doc

 

PS: sorry - just read the OP properly and I see that you specifically want to use EDM. My bad!

[Malhanon]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I was thinking that the defense to the attack is either a successful EGO roll or opposed EGO roll depending on how you want it to go. So I agree with Hugh.

 

There are two other paths if you want to building this power. Dispel the "Summon" route. Sure, not ever demon is summoned by the power directly, buy if you calculate the AP for a summon on your demon then let the PC mage dispel it... Alt, create a separate spell that is built on Dispel.

 

Finally, make a Physical Lim for the demon that some object/prayer/incatation will send it back. The PCs done't have to spend any points, just survive performing the action while the Demon is eating their face! this works really well in a low level/power game. I've tried it and the PCs were glad they didn't need to spend a 1/4 of there CP on a spell.

 

Just ideas throwing them on the table and all.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Where do I designate the defense for the UAA?

 

I want the process of banishing demons to be a rare event and very difficult, so CP cost isn't an issue for me.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I was thinking that the defense to the attack is either a successful EGO roll or opposed EGO roll depending on how you want it to go.

This is the case

[Christopher]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I want the process of banishing demons to be a rare event and very difficult' date=' so CP cost isn't an issue for me.[/quote']

That sound more like the Complication Approach or Handvavium (the ultimate GM tool).

 

Very weak demons are easy to cast out (high value), but for the really strong guys you need his "true name" or the "legendary, only works for him" Relic.

 

Another way:

PRE attacks could be resisted with EGO. So how about aming for a EGO+30 Result with the PRE attack ("begone to your own realm, demon"). That way there could even be a not so powerfull effect in the chase of failure (the usual PRE attack penalties). The right tools give a great bonus to the Presence attack.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

You don't need all that extra stuff on UAA, it already costs END, etc and so on. The Value of Usable As Attack is +1 1/4.

 

Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension), x8 Increased Weight, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Limited Range (10m; +1/4), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (96 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, -2), Only Versus Demons (-1)

 

The defense is an EGO vs EGO Contest, I added Limited Range to signify that the Demon can be a little ways away (like in a mage's circle) - you could add Foci: Arrangement to make it into a full ritual, along with Incations and Gestures probably too. The Extra Time moves it well out of the realm of a Combat Spell.

 

Should do the trick.

[Beast]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

this one can handle big ones also

 

 

Banishment: Extra-Dimensional Movement

Any Dimension, Single Location)Demons can come from many different realms,PC's tend to be from this dimension(could be used as a means of sending the injured home if abroad)

x64 Increased Weight)6400 kg(12800 lb)1 big one or lots of small ones you might have bound/entangled to a location or are really good with your sweep attack

Usable As Attack (+1)

(120 Active Points) real cost 23 pts)

Increased Endurance Cost (x4 END; -1 1/2)

Gestures (Requires both hands; Complex; -3/4)

Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (may only send target to it's home dimension; -1/2)kinda hard to send some one home when they are already there

Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2)

Incantations (Complex; -1/2)

Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2)

[Zephrosyne]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Since demons are not inanimate objects, weight of the demons should not be an issue. Instead, the modifier should be based on the number of demons banished (see 6E1 pg. 355).

[Beast]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

there is still a wt limit on XDM ,just like t-port

you just buy the extra wt there(not on usable against others)

it also allows you to send back more than 1 demon up to the wt limit(stooge slapping a line of demons)

 

 

Since demons are not inanimate objects' date=' weight of the demons should not be an issue. Instead, the modifier should be based on the number of demons banished (see 6E1 pg. 355).[/quote']

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I know this is a campaign specific request but I have to question the use of EDM here in the first place.

 

I can see how it was used to allow the Demon to get here in the first place but sending the Demon back to where it came from seems more appropriate as a Dispel. I'm basing this on old AD&D bias about Demons not really dying unless killed on their home plane. That implied to me that most Demons on Earth are really just an 'avatar' of sorts. This is not to say they can't actually come in person, but it is far more difficult and has far greater consequences (See Trigon from Teen Titans). Destroying the avatar is one method of breaking the link but severing the 'control link' itself should be possible via Dispel as well.

 

If none of this applies to your gameworld please ignore.

[Christopher]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I can see how it was used to allow the Demon to get here in the first place but sending the Demon back to where it came from seems more appropriate as a Dispel. I'm basing this on old AD&D bias about Demons not really dying unless killed on their home plane. That implied to me that most Demons on Earth are really just an 'avatar' of sorts. This is not to say they can't actually come in person' date=' but it is far more difficult and has far greater consequences (See [u']Trigon[/u] from Teen Titans). Destroying the avatar is one method of breaking the link but severing the 'control link' itself should be possible via Dispel as well.

In the 3.X Editions this was re-stated under Summon Monster: You have full controll, but if he dies he just vanishes home and reforms in 24 hours (this also means the don't resist sucide orders).

On the other hand, the planar binding spells brought the real deal to you. They were also a lot heavier to controll, since a lot more was at stake for them (this is simmilar to how normal HERO-Summon works).

 

In shadowrun they have a similar mechanic for Spirits:

When their physical for is destroyed, they reform at home in 24-Force Days (note that the unbonds delete remaining services at sunrise or sunset). Really destroying one requires a planar quest to find it's spirit formular.

[Zephrosyne]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

there is still a wt limit on XDM ,just like t-port

you just buy the extra wt there(not on usable against others)

it also allows you to send back more than 1 demon up to the wt limit(stooge slapping a line of demons)

 

Ah, got ya. I was looking at the Advantage instead of the Power in question. Thanks for the correction.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

Maybe the defense could be a contested EGO roll? Then maybe some Demons have way high EGO, and some spellcasters who are particularly adept at banishing demons have Skill Levels for such EGO rolls, or use other spells to boost their EGO, etc.

 

Just a thought.

[Mister E]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

If the demon got here under its own power (or otherwise has X-D Movement itself), what's to stop it from coming back after it's been banished?

 

In this case, rather than merely porting it away, I'd Transform it (or its avatar):

 

 

Turn (Demon w/ access to Earth) into (Demon w/o access to Earth)?

[Ice9]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

The opposed EGO roll seems like a reasonable defense for the UaA, so I don't think it needs to be a separate limitation.

Also, I would put Only vs Demons at a lot more than -1, unless this is a very demon-heavy campaign. That's assuming that close to half the foes the PCs face will be demons!

 

As for the demons returning - it depends how they got there in the first place.

If they're powerful enough to just travel to Earth directly, then yeah, this won't do it without something else to keep them away. But if they need a special portal, or to be invited in, then it will stop them for a while at least.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

It could also be Linked to a Drain of EDM to remove the demon's ability to return of its own volition.

[dmjalund]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

i think according to the genre, it takes a lot of effort and sometimes external help for a demon to get from its dimension to ours.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

i think according to the genre' date=' it takes a lot of effort and sometimes external help for a demon to get from its dimension to ours.[/quote']

This

[Christopher]

Re: Banish Demon with Extradimensional Movement (6E)

 

I am still not certain EDM is really the right thing to use for banishing.

 

EDM brings a character to a Alternate Dimension.

 

But what you want to do:

Make certain this demon vanishes right here and now and can't come back anytime soon.

 

EDM just seems wrong way for that. I mean: would you allow a super a power (build as EDM) that can push an enemy boss 1 turn into the future? In the time he is back, they can leisurely disable his mooks and disarm the doomsday device.

EDM just seem not suited to "disable an oponent temporaly or permanently". You normally use a Entangle/Flash to temporarily disable someone. Or an RKA for a "permanent" solution. Transform with heals back normally can be used to have the middle way: He gone now and can't come back for a few days at least.