Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

[humantorch101]

I am about to start a new supers game and am very, very torn on which system to use for it. I am an old Champions gronard going all the way back to 2nd edition and probably had my most fun with it with 3rd and 4th edition.

 

I used 5th edition for a while but started to find it both complex and way too much for a purely supers game. I have purchased 6th edition but it looks even less than the game i fondly remember! This is probably just rose tinted glasses looking back fondly on my youth but I am searching for something more......classic supers.

 

I have played other supers games mainly marvel superheroes back in the day and more recently seriously flirted with mutants and masterminds and just purchased BASH.

But they all seem to be lacking something as well and don't seem to have the solid crunch of Hero.

 

Maybe what I should do is pare back to a more simple version of Hero and take out all the options of whats not needed for supers.

 

my questions to you guys are these.

 

1. what edition is your preferred rule set for supers games and what are you currently playing?

2. Why does this particular edition work best for you for supers?

3. Are their any particular rules or features from other editions you have ported over and why?

4. Do you think it would be a valid project for me to try and mix and match from editions to get what I need?

 

thks guys

[Christopher]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

1. 6E, but that is also the only one I have. One campaign is starting (in a longer creation process). A second is possible. Both on herocentral

2. From what I heard, every version of Hero get's a little bit more generic. The more generic it get's, the more you can build with it. It might look to you like you are missing a part form an earlier version, but usually it's just under a different name, or a different advantage now.

3. No

4. I am not a fan of to much house-ruling. I bet Steve Long and the other Autors put more thoughts into balancing, than all of us Forum-Dwellers combined. But when your GM is certain it won't break the game, you could even throw any balacing rules aboard and just play how you like. It works for some, maybe it works for you?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

6e. The changes to killing attacks and the advent of Damage Negation vastly simplify constructing bulletproof characters who can still be affected by Super Attacks.

[Escafarc]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

6E. I've been playing since 1E and the changes in the various versions are not that different when compared to other game systems with multible edtions.

[Balabanto]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

6e. I despise Damage Negation, however, and banned it in any game I run. Any system that requires unrolling dice after rolling dice, or rolling dice separately to determine how much less damage someone takes is a pain in the butt, and aggravates players.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

I have been playing since 3e, and I would definitely go with 6e. It is the most balanced and most flexible.

 

There aren't any aspects of previous editions that I feel work better than 6e, although I could see setting a few house rules if you want to get a particular feel. Or, if like Balabanto, you despise some 6e construct in particular.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

I say play what you, as a GM, are most comfortable running.

 

For the most part, I prefer 6E due to the options. Many changes I was behind 100% while some others didn't have much impact. Every once in a while,I will stumble across some minor rules alteration that I managed to miss on my first read through.

 

It's still not perfect, but it does what I want.

[RexMundi]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

1. what edition is your preferred rule set for supers games and what are you currently playing?

2. Why does this particular edition work best for you for supers?

3. Are their any particular rules or features from other editions you have ported over and why?

4. Do you think it would be a valid project for me to try and mix and match from editions to get what I need?

 

1. 6E, and again 6E

2. It's smoother, faster, less jumbled in most of the terminology, broader in scope, allows for better smoother tool kit work, easier for new players to pick up.

3. A lot of the background material from the 5E material is still perfectly usable. Still use a lot fo the Dark Champions and Pulp Material in the 6e Game.

4. If you take, 6E, then Dark Champions and Pulp Hero from 5e, toss in the 6e HSMA book and maybe the Bestiary you are set for life unless you want lots of premade stuff. So yes, mix and match. We all Do.

 

~Rex

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

If you've become disenchanted with the complexity of later editions of the system, you might try running your campaign just using a "basic" version of the rules. I know several HERO GMs who ran 5E games using only HERO System Sidekick, and I imagine the 6E Basic Rulebook would work just as well for that purpose. You can always add elements from the full rule set that aren't in the BR if you find your game needs more options.

[RexMundi]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Got my Rookie GM doing just that with the BRB......plug and play. Two games in they already want the full set of books.

 

~Rex

[Orion]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

I have 3e and 4e, so I'd probably use 4e. I use mainly 4e, with a couple items from the old Champions II and Champions III books. Mixing and matching as needed is my preference as a GM, as well as some house rules. As a player I much prefer a single rule set to be used, and few house rules (unless they are adopting mine) - just too hard to keep track of the changes for every different GM. While I would like to get 6e, it just isn't worth the price for me in this economy.

 

Do you think it is the rules, or the setting that you are missing? I just bought a bunch of used 3e supplements and adventures, and am having a ball working them into my storyline. I find I like many things about the old stuff better - simpler character builds, lower point totals, less complex storylines. On the other hand, the many obviously tacked on disads, lack of coherent origins, and less believable builds and origins leave me shaking my head. In the long run, I could probably game using several different rulesets, as long as the setting is good.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

I played 4th forever and its a strong system. I like it for Supers muchly. Thay being said with 5th I can do a few more things with less wierd builds. Highlander type immortality is easier with 5th. I don't care for many of the changes in 6th at all ( insert crazed rant about figered characteristics, COM, power frameworks and suble changes which are bigger than they seem here) but check out the differences yourself. The basic book is inexpensive and lots simpler and even if you don't care for it you may like some of the new powers and want to use them. Sidekick for 5th is a similar animal.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

um any of them.

I personally have played since 2nd edition.

My character write ups are ...we'll say exhaustive cause it sounds better than bloated.

 

I like every edition, but the later ones, like modern programming, tend to build bigger and bigger characters for me...so many things I want to do.

 

the basic rules changes haven't really affected me so I'd just go with what you feel comfortable using.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

I've played since the days of 1st edition, and have run Champions campaigns in 4e and 5e for the past 20+ years. I own 6e but have never run or played in a 6e game. I am currently between Champions campaigns, having ended my latest (5e) one a few months ago.

 

1) My preferred set, based on my comfort with the rules, is 5e, as that is the set that I most recently ran. There are parts of 6e that I prefer over 5e, so I'm currently vacillating over whether my next campaign will be 5e with some 6e parts house-ruled in, or 6e.

 

2) As I said, I'm comfortable with 5e. In the OP's situation, though, I'd probably just stick with 4e.

 

3) I haven't ported over rules from other editions, but if I was to pull 6e stuff into 5e, I would replace Force Wall with Barrier, and probably replace Damage Shield with the AOE Surface rules.

 

4) Personally, I'm not so keen on mixing and matching editions as far as rules are concerned.

[Thanelord]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

1. My preferred set is 5e, though I also have 4e and some of the older stuff.

 

2. I will continue to run 5e. Used to run 4e and found the 5e migration to be a natural for me. I don't own 6e yet (and not sure that I will).

 

3. I use primarily 5e. Can't think of anything I've ported over from earlier editions other than characters and background info. Nothing from a rules perspective.

 

4. Nothing wrong with mixing and matching if that's what one wants. The rules are there to be used to have fun. If you find a combo that is fun for you and your group, who is to stop you?

[Tasha]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

I am about to start a new supers game and am very, very torn on which system to use for it. I am an old Champions gronard going all the way back to 2nd edition and probably had my most fun with it with 3rd and 4th edition.

 

I used 5th edition for a while but started to find it both complex and way too much for a purely supers game. I have purchased 6th edition but it looks even less than the game i fondly remember! This is probably just rose tinted glasses looking back fondly on my youth but I am searching for something more......classic supers.

 

I have played other supers games mainly marvel superheroes back in the day and more recently seriously flirted with mutants and masterminds and just purchased BASH.

But they all seem to be lacking something as well and don't seem to have the solid crunch of Hero.

 

Maybe what I should do is pare back to a more simple version of Hero and take out all the options of whats not needed for supers.

 

my questions to you guys are these.

 

1. what edition is your preferred rule set for supers games and what are you currently playing?

2. Why does this particular edition work best for you for supers?

3. Are their any particular rules or features from other editions you have ported over and why?

4. Do you think it would be a valid project for me to try and mix and match from editions to get what I need?

 

thks guys

 

Played since 2nd edition. 6e is the best edition for any genre. If you don't care for supers with skills (though I personally would be bored without skills), then don't use them. IN many ways 6e is less complex to play than earlier editions. The books look longer, but that's really because the Powers/Skills/Perks/Talents are explained so much better than any other edition. I really can't see anything from Char Gen that I would ditch in my supers game. Now there are many optional rules in the play rules (Book 2) that you can ignore for supers (ie Hit Location, bleeding, Knockdown) of course those have been in the rules since 4e (and before that in the original genre books that included rules).

[Tasha]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

6e. I despise Damage Negation' date=' however, and banned it in any game I run. Any system that requires unrolling dice after rolling dice, or rolling dice separately to determine how much less damage someone takes is a pain in the butt, and aggravates players.[/quote']

 

Wow, While I don't currently allow DN for PC's. I just tell them that their attack is less dice for that particular target (ie all attack vs Godzilla do -4 DC) that's simple.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Quick answer to OP...

 

As a GM: Whatever edition you are most comfortable running the game in.

 

As a Player: I think the current edition gives the widest list of options for character creation. Some of the options are easier than others to impliment 'in-game' (like Damage Negation; In this case I think it just boils down to getting familiar with the first new damage prevention mechanics since Damage Reduction).

[Christopher]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Wow' date=' While I don't currently allow DN for PC's. I just tell them that their attack is less dice for that particular target (ie all attack vs Godzilla do -4 DC) that's simple.[/quote']

It all get's a little more difficulty once the Power in question has Advantages that affect DC caluclation. But Usually it's to job of the player to know what Haymaker does to his attack and from there it is easy to get to the effect of DN. There is even the table in 6E2 for that.

[RexMundi]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

6e. I despise Damage Negation' date=' however, and banned it in any game I run. Any system that requires unrolling dice after rolling dice, or rolling dice separately to determine how much less damage someone takes is a pain in the butt, and aggravates players.[/quote']

 

Damage negation is your friend. Especially if used in hand with a couple of other options that basicaly, makes the math go away. I see the point though, but I'll take Damage Negation anyday over the hardened Resistant Defense Reduction Pancakes that tend to clog up a lot of Sheet space to get the same Effect as Damage Negation -4 DC, heh.

 

Then again I've been used to similar effects for various types of power set ups from other systems, Take Growth for eample in the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG's, and had cribbed up a scaled sligtly different version of Damage Negation way back in 3rd edition so I'm happy with it in 6th.

 

~Rex.....big pond though, plenty of room for lot's of types of boats.

[humantorch101]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Well that seems pretty unanimous! I will go back to 6th edition and give it a real thorough rereading and try converting some characters across and get a general feel for it.

 

Thanks for giving me such good detailed advice. Once i start porting over characters will post them here to get some feedback if you don't mind.

[Christopher]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Once i start porting over characters will post them here to get some feedback if you don't mind.

Don't hesitate. I think most of us have either subscribed the System Discussion/Champions or look there as the first action after login:)

[casualplayer]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Is there such a genre as Just Supers? Most superworlds I know of have time-tossed swordsmen and cybersamurai, mages, mystics and mentalists, triggermen and pterodactyls, angels, demons, saints and sinners. Best pick a system and edition that lets you emulate all that.

 

6th lets you do things you couldn't in previous editions, although you always meta-could (Damage Negation just enforces Standard Effect on whoever is hurting you and soaks it 1BODY&3STUN/5 cp.) Having just recently had to convert a previous edition character over to 6th the changes can be a bit unsettling (400 pts in 5th ramped up to about 440 in 6th) but the toolbox added some powerful and versatile new items.

[RexMundi]

Re: Which edition do you feel is best for JUST supers?

 

Yeah there is a ramp up in a straight conversion for some types of characters, and a ramp down for others. The environment though in 6e has a lot more granularity in it and scales vs. all the effect one can produce on a character sheet a lot better so that little bit of points is a good thing.

 

My new players, especially the d20 converts, just get lost when you try and explain Figured Characteristics to them, or an Elemental Control, 6e though, *Boom!*, they're making solid characters right out of the gate with the Basic Book, and a few have grown up to the Real Rules in the last week or so.

 

As for the just Supers genre, heh. Super Heroes isn't one Genre. It's EVERY Genre, all at the same time. From two fisted Pulp Detectives to Sorcerer Supreme's, Sword wielding Barbarians to Techno Powered Armor, Werewolves and Were Jaguar's falling from the clouds (We miss Jaguar bring him back!)......Like was mentioned above, need the system that can do it all and do it well.

 

~Rex......tries to toss casualplayer a bit of rep, though he is a tad rep heavy and said rep must be spread around more. Countdown to the Captain America movie begins right now.