Michael Hopcroft Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? The reason warriors "dressed" in woad were so frightening is that it indicates that they are more interested in killing you than in their own survival. It goes along with their sheer alien-ness to their opponents. The '60s film Zulu effectively presented the idea that from the perspective of the British soldier the Zulu warriors were almost completely alien in terms of their mindset; they were inexplicable and that made them terrifying. In a supers game the mental effect of a particular character being like that is best modeled as Presence. The downside is that unless you have a force field is something similar you are completely vulnerable and certain types of Called Shots become easier, but that matters less in a supers game than in other genres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? While being naked probably wouldn't have negative effects on supers who are mostly invulnerable, I'd think those who aren't (or aren't used to being so) would suffer some penalties just from hesitation and instinctive worry/flinching over sensitive bits being more exposed to an opponent's attacks than usual. Along the same lines of how most people walk more carefully when barefoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? While being naked probably wouldn't have negative effects on supers who are mostly invulnerable' date=' I'd think those who aren't (or aren't [i']used[/i] to being so) would suffer some penalties just from hesitation and instinctive worry/flinching over sensitive bits being more exposed to an opponent's attacks than usual. Along the same lines of how most people walk more carefully when barefoot. Do you think it would make escaping grapples easier or harder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? That seems to border Rule 34, doesn't it? Do you think it would make escaping grapples easier or harder? The enemy might get an OCV-penalty (not only because he has no clothing to grab, but also because he can't just place his hands at any place. You might be able to push the escape, depending on where those hands are... It may look very, very wierd if the enemy uses tentacles to grab you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? The enemy might get an OCV-penalty (not only because he has no clothing to grab, but also because he can't just place his hands at any place. You might be able to push the escape, depending on where those hands are... It may look very, very wierd if the enemy uses tentacles to grab you... Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Why not? The common "Prudity" Complication everyone has? And without clothing, there are a lot less points for to get a hold of the enemy (in fact, a lot of Judo Throws/Grabs work with the clothing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? If I am fighting for my life, or trying to kill someone for that matter, I doubt very much I'm going to worry about where I put my hands regardless of which of us is naked. Sparring may be a different matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? If I am fighting for my life' date=' or trying to kill someone for that matter, I doubt very much I'm going to worry about where I put my hands regardless of which of us is naked. Sparring may be a different matter...[/quote'] Is superman able to just ignore his CVK when he's battling for his life? No, he had to make a EGO roll (but at least we may allow him one for his Total CvK). Same aplies towards that. Even if you put your hands there unintentionally, this may feel so akward that you can't fully follow through (hence the -OCV). When you had a very prude christian upbringing you might not even be able to touch someone there to save your life. Heck, samurai had this Code of Honor that demanded to kill yourself *painfully* if you losse your Honor. And parrents are able to risk their life/wellbeing for their children. So, Complications can overcome the self protection instinct (wich is, technically, only another complication). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? All of that only means anything if everyone with a "very prude christian upbringing" has the supposed complication. Besides the fact that I don't think they do, the upbringing you presuppose does not present the majority of world and nowadays perhaps not even most Americans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? All of that only means anything if everyone with a "very prude christian upbringing" has the supposed complication. Besides the fact that I don't think they do' date=' the upbringing you presuppose does not present the majority of world and nowadays perhaps not even most Americans...[/quote'] So you would Grab a women between the legs to get a hold for a Throw? I also mentioned that a lot of grabs need something to hold onto, and that is very often clothing: At least half-dozen simple Judo throws require you to grab clothing at the chest, you can't use them if the enemy is barechest or wears only a bikini (well, at least you can't throw her with that grab^^). One more reason to wear spandex and short hair while fighting crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? So you would Grab a women between the legs to get a hold for a Throw? I also mentioned that a lot of grabs need something to hold onto, and that is very often clothing: At least half-dozen simple Judo throws require you to grab clothing at the chest, you can't use them if the enemy is barechest or wears only a bikini (well, at least you can't throw her with that grab^^). One more reason to wear spandex and short hair while fighting crime. If I was fighting for my life? Absolutely, without hesitation. I will admit that I am having trouble imagining a situation where I would be forced into a life and death struggle against a naked person, male or female, but that's besides the point. I also have a bit of trouble picturing a situation where grabbing a woman there would be beneficial for a throw. The point is, the hesitancy I might show while point sparring with a female because I don't want to hit them in the boob simply doesn't factor in when it's a life or death struggle. Your points about clothing don't really have much to do with the idea of fighting naked in general. There are plenty of throws and grabs aimed at arms, legs, the head or neck, et cetera. And for those without martial arts training, well, clothing's effect on a bearhug is minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Is superman able to just ignore his CVK when he's battling for his life? No' date=' he had to make a EGO roll (but at least we may allow him one for his Total CvK).[/quote'] Yeah, but he got 20 points for that. If someone actually had a Psych Lim that pertained to such prudity, there might be a penalty involved. Most people don't have such a Limitation, and as such, if a grab involves the 'monkey squeezes peaches' maneuver, so be it. Frankly, if we're talking real world and real fights, all bets are off. There's no such thing as a fair fight and no such thing as rules in a fight. You beat the other guy (or gal), and whatever it takes to do it, you do it. Heck, doing 'inappropriate' things like grabbing the Tender Vittles could give you a psychological edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Alas,the system says that I can't Rep CrosshairCollie for the "grabbing the Tender Vittles" comment yet. JoeG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Yeah' date=' but he got 20 points for that. If someone actually had a Psych Lim that pertained to such prudity, there might be a penalty involved. Most people don't have such a Limitation, and as such, if a grab involves the 'monkey squeezes peaches' maneuver, so be it.[/quote'] Everyman Complications: everyone has them, but they don't count for complications. Technically nobody has "Hangs on his Live" (you are violenty opposed to killing yourself on EGO +20 MC) and for most characters, I think you want "Strip Naked" to be beyond EGO+0. Where you would put it in MC EGO Chart is a good point on how much value it should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Everyman Complications: everyone has them' date=' but they don't count for complications.[/quote'] Which means they can be overcome when desired with no roll required. (To say nothing of the fact that they can't be 'everyman disads', even if such a thing existed, because not everybody is squeamish about nudity or touching people.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? Everyman Complications: everyone has them, but they don't count for complications. Technically nobody has "Hangs on his Live" (you are violenty opposed to killing yourself on EGO +20 MC) and for most characters, I think you want "Strip Naked" to be beyond EGO+0. Where you would put it in MC EGO Chart is a good point on how much value it should have. Nice. Which means they can be overcome when desired with no roll required. Like choosing to accept a Heal, or UAA power. They aren't penalties, but they are partial psych-lims... only with the beneficial part existent. This leaves plenty of room for PCs to go ahead and take actual prudery complications w/o it being unbalanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? The default character is a Remorseless and Conscienceless Cypher built on base points and no more. Woo hoo, let's all play Chaotic Neutral assassins! In exchange for putting some Psychological Complication constraints on your RACC, you get additional points to create your character. EGO Roll to do this, EGO Roll to not do this, slavish devotion to a credo, etc. But if it's not on the character sheet then it's not a rule you have to live by, more of a guideline. This is why so many games insist on some level of CvK because they have been burned in the past by the "hero" throwing a busload of nuns at the villain, or something similar, and the game ground to a halt while the GM was shaking off the "Wait, what?"s. You can't plan out a game for characters that might do anything at anytime. But you also can't scribble down every tendency that a character might have. That's exhaustive and I game to be exhilarated. You have to have an assumptive state and, for modern-era humans at least, working with All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarden isn't such a bad thing. Again, guidelines not rules, but a radical, out-of-character departure from these guidelines might make me as a GM levy some repercussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? So do you feel that fighting for your life, regardless of the state of your our your opponents clothing, is a "radical, out-of-character departure" from your "modern-era humans'" "guideline"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? There's a scene from the second Gunslinger book by King where the gunslinger is impressed by the junky for fighting naked. If it impresses the Gunslinger, it must be exceptional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? There's also the question of whether or not your character is a 'modern-era human'. I play a lot of robots. They walk around naked all the time, because they've nothing to hide, and I can't imagine them blinking an optic sensor if someone else was hiking around naked, at least in terms of being offended. They certainly might wonder if that particular person is cold (or getting sunburned, depending on the season), but there would be no averting of the eyes or cries of 'have some decency' or anything of that sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? I asked if you thought it was out of character for a modern person, not a fairy tale cowboy from a post-apocalyptic fantasy land. EDIT: Also, if a Stephen King character defines your standard of a "modern-era human" (for whatever that means considering the fact that there are still several cultures that fight naked or near nude) then I'm not sure our discussion will get anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebar Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? EDIT: Also, if a Stephen King character defines your standard of a "modern-era human" (for whatever that means considering the fact that there are still several cultures that fight naked or near nude) then I'm not sure our discussion will get anywhere. I think it could have gone without saying that this must be considered to be culturally-contextually dependent. If everyone's naked then obviously there's nothing to write home about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? If it goes without saying then why use a fictional character who's culture is so drastically different than a "modern-era human" as an example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Re: The Birthday Suit Boogaloo? There's also the question of whether or not your character is a 'modern-era human'. I play a lot of robots. They walk around naked all the time' date=' because they've nothing to hide, and I can't imagine them blinking an optic sensor if someone else was hiking around naked, at least in terms of being offended. They certainly might wonder if that particular person is cold (or getting sunburned, depending on the season), but there would be no averting of the eyes or cries of 'have some decency' or anything of that sort.[/quote'] But your characters should probably have the Psych Comp Robotic Thinking to some level, possibly even 0 pt Everyrobot level, which means they'll be prone to Data/Vision/Red Tornado reactions and actions. Machine class of mind. The average person has a certain set of abilities and tendencies. We aren't interested in playing average, and so we jot down the ways we differ on our character sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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