Mega Knockback in 6th

[Christopher]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

Most people I know who play Hero measure damage in points of BOD and STUN' date=' so for them, no.[/quote']

Wait, this got me to something. I really had to look this up, since it's so deep in wording of the rules:

You don't measure knockback in Meters. You measure it in BODY. Double Knockback doubles the BODY for the porpuse of determining knockback. It's only that the not negated Knockback Body translates into travelled meters.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

Right' date=' but the text explicitly says that AOE or "Powers that work on Range" could be megascaled. Like it explicitly counts Movement Powers.[/quote']

 

Pretty much counts everything measured in distance, and converts the unit of measurement away from "meters". Kinda like we roll our knockback and figure out how many meters the struck target travels.

 

Also, don't forget this important sentence:

"It [Megascale] is intended to allow characters to create interesting, useful, and flavorful abilities (often non-combat ones), not to make it easy to build planet-destroying weapons for just a few points or to allow a character to travel anywhere he wants instantly."

When you can define Megascaled Knockback in a way that does not remove or kills everyone you hit, than it might be applicable.

 

It has no way of killing anyone - it does not enhance damage. I don't think anyone is saying this ability is right for any game. In many games, it is a one shot "out of the battle" power, and I wouldn't allow it in those games. But so is ExtraDimensional Travel, Usable as an Attack, which doesn't even require Megascale to work. And I can always Link a movement power, also UAA and Megascale, to get the same effect.

 

My perspective is that, if the effect is one I am prepared to allow in the game, which means it is not unbalancing, then Megascale Knockbak is a reasonable approach to mechanically building the ability.

 

When it gets more powerfull in taking out/disabling your enemys than a 80 AP Blast' date=' a 80 AP Entangle, or "Desolidification, Useable on others" - than imho it would simply be powergaming.[/quote']

 

None of which would cost less than EDM UAA, would they? If it is unbalancing, then the manner in which the build would be constructed is irrelevant - an unbalancing ability should be rejected.

 

[Edit: On your logic' date= what about damage? Could it be megascaled?]

 

Lucius has already covered this. Although it could make for some interesting effects, if combined with limiting factors. Megascale movement, for example, requires you move to noncombat movement, hindering OCV and DCV. Make Megascale damage eliminate your OCV and DCV, and require a full phase, and we have a very powerful attack with limited utility.

 

Wait, this got me to something. I really had to look this up, since it's so deep in wording of the rules:

You don't measure knockback in Meters. You measure it in BODY. Double Knockback doubles the BODY for the porpuse of determining knockback. It's only that the not negated Knockback Body translates into travelled meters.

 

You calculate knockback based on BODY (doubled with Double Knockback), and measure it in meters. If I rolled 12 BOD, then rolled 8 on 2d6, leaving 4 x 2 = 8, I get 8 meters of knockback.

[Christopher]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

When you can define Megascaled Knockback in a way that does not remove or kills everyone you hit' date=' than it might be applicable.[/quote']

@Hugh. So, what is it you try to convince me of, that I haven't already agreed?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

What have you agreed to? Your most recent post refers to measuring Knockback in BOD rather than Meters.

[Christopher]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

I thought this was still about the x000d6 Knockback Damage or x km comeback-distance. For that, I am pretty sure the Autor did anything to say: Knockback + Megascale = "Not what I had in mind".

 

Also, even if I am rigth about it, there is this standing option to ignore/rewrite rules in the name of dramatic sense.

Heck, you don't even need megascale to do this. Just define (as Campaign Rule) that knockback-distance per body, Knockback resistance and damage go in steps of 10m instead of 2m, with no extra cost or other changes to the rules.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

It's easy to change the base for knockback distance if you want to do so as a default. Similarly, if you don't want to allow an ability that moves a target opponent several km away, then don't allow it - that's the right answer, to me, if any ability would be unbalancing.

 

I'm not sure where we get the impression knockback damage would increase if distance increases. That's not consistent with the source material or with any ruling I'm aware of in respect of damage caused by megascale movement. It would arise with extra purchases of 2x knockback, but there again I hold with the simplistic "if it's going to be unbalancing in your game, disallow it" approach. Although here I can see merit in ruling that an extra purchase of "2x Knockback" is arithemtic, not geometric, so we go 2x to 3x to 4x, etc., and not 2x to 4x to 8x.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Mega Knockback in 6th

 

It's easy to change the base for knockback distance if you want to do so as a default. Similarly, if you don't want to allow an ability that moves a target opponent several km away, then don't allow it - that's the right answer, to me, if any ability would be unbalancing.

 

I'm not sure where we get the impression knockback damage would increase if distance increases. That's not consistent with the source material or with any ruling I'm aware of in respect of damage caused by megascale movement. It would arise with extra purchases of 2x knockback, but there again I hold with the simplistic "if it's going to be unbalancing in your game, disallow it" approach. Although here I can see merit in ruling that an extra purchase of "2x Knockback" is arithemtic, not geometric, so we go 2x to 3x to 4x, etc., and not 2x to 4x to 8x.

 

The thing about looking at this in the source material is that the writers always seem to use it on the right target. They have full narrative control. The incident that I remember most vividly was from 80s X-Men. Binary (Ms. Marvel) punches Rogue into a low orbit for stealing her original powers. Well Rogue has a pretty decent flying brick power set by default. She could just fly back in a few phases, and the forces involved weren't going to kill her. I don't even think she was stunned by the punch.

 

The writer did not have her do this to someone more fragile. In a game, you can't control for what a power-mad gamer might do on a lark, even after he promised you that he wouldn't. What if someone with this power used it to punch someone like Green Dragon, Nighthawk, or some other low-def character with no flight or teleportation ability? What if they used it on that super-annoying villain mastermind, who is essentially a normal? You still have to play it through as GM using your best guess for what is reasonable. It's hard to just always handwave it. Sure, there is at least one person who survived a fall from a great height at basically terminal velocity on record, but that just isn't the expected outcome. This is the kind of thing that makes this build problematic.