Background Skill in Combat

[GAZZA]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

I meant a character who losts its special weapon and must fight with the empty hands.

Err, there's no WF for unarmed combat, if that's what you're asking. Everyone can do that. (And as Tasha reminds me above, you can even use clubs and so forth without any weapon familiarities).

[Greywind]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Black Knight and Hawkeye both had Martial Arts skills. This is quite noticeable with Hawkeye when he was Ronin. He was trained by Captain America.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Err' date=' there's no WF for unarmed combat, if that's what you're asking. Everyone can do that. (And as Tasha reminds me above, you can even use clubs and so forth without any weapon familiarities).[/quote']

 

The small exception to this is Martial Arts which get a default weapon element for free but any additional require points to be spent. If the Martial Art normally uses a weapon (like Fencing) then the ability to use some* maneuvers without a weapon requires the unarmed weapon element.

 

*usually defensive in nature.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

non weapon Thrown things (ie rocks etc) cost 0 CP as a WF

 

How far is this reasonably extended? I need WF to throw a spear or a boomerang, but not a tree thrown as a spear or a car thrown as a rock. Why can't I just throw the boomerang like the car and a spear like the tree?

 

Also bricks using lamp posts' date=' cars and other objects as Clubs is also covered as those items are also 0 CP (ie WF Clubs 0pts)[/quote']

 

Yet a mace or a morning star, which are just bludgeons like a club, require a weapon familiarity. How different are a baseball bat and a quarterstaff? [i guess a properly used quarterstaff isn't held at one end, but why can't I just swing it like a club?]

 

Applying the nonproficiency penalty on improvised weapons can assist in reducing the power of such weapons, an issue many people have with high STR characters. I think I'd rather see the penalties regarding balance and aeordynamics of the object enhanced to include an effective "no one is proficient with such weapons" penalty. Someone proficient can use PSL's to offset the penalties.

 

I agree with your comments on WF needing to be tailored to the nature and genre of the game. Even many heroic genres seem to impose no WF penalties. For example, how much training did Flash Gordon or John Carter have in swords and bows? They seem to have no issue using them, but it doesn't seem like that would be something one would pick up playing polo.

[purple justice]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Black Knight and Hawkeye both had Martial Arts skills. This is quite noticeable with Hawkeye when he was Ronin. He was trained by Captain America.

 

Which ?

If you told me Black Knight practice kenjutsu and iaïdo, I would apply the penalty .

Look at Hawkeye's presentation here : http://paradis-marvel-jack.forumactif.com/t307-hawkeye

The author says he's an excellent range-fighter with a bow and arrows and he's a good wrestler.

So Hawkeye would have -3 OCV , only if the player tried to punch , did not he ?

[Mickael]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

So Hawkeye would have -3 OCV , only if the player tried to punch , did not he ?

 

No, as said above, there is no need for a WF when using your simple fists (it's quite natural for everybody, compared to the training with a weapon). "Strike" is the base maneuver, it includes a punch.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

No one (absent a Complication) has a penalty to standard HTH maneuvers, so a -3 OCV penalty with a Punch doesn't exist. Based on that description (I don't know that I agree that's Hawkeye, but it's a good example), I would expect the character to have a huge array of Ranged skills, a Wrestling martial arts package (perhaps including a few levels and/or DCs) and no other special HTH combat skills.

 

I could see a -3 OCV penalty for many abilities in a classic "Mind Swap" scenario, but that might even apply to the Martial Artist stuck in the Brick's body and trying to move that extra bulk.

[Vondy]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

The answer to this question is dependent on 1) the play-style of the group, 2) how rubbery the science in the campaign is, and 3) the interaction of the specific special effects in question. In an essentially realistic campaign it would be reasonable to say standing on non-conductive material would protect you from electrical current. But then, you would also have to consider the amplitude of the blast, the material being struck, and the proximity to the target. In theory, the amplitude could blow the tire out from under the character, causing them to fall to the ground before the current completely dissipates, or could arc onto the character - especially a character wearing metal. For me, the real question becomes: is it dramatically appropriate for the group, game, and scene. That will chance based on... group, game, and scene.

[purple justice]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

"Strike" is the base maneuver, it includes a punch.

 

Yes you 're right.

But for me there are two main styles of HTH combats : strikes ( karate , english boxing , taekwondo and so on...) and grabs ( wrestling , judo , sambo and so on...).So two kind of fighters.

A usually striker - with no grabfighting knowledge - who tries to wrestle or to armlock should receive an OCV's penalty.

According to me.

In the other hand , a wrestler could punch easily.

If this wrestler is specialized to the range combat as it is the case for Hawkeye , I would wish a penalty for the player who decide to punch in a HTH combat. It is my opinion.

[Greywind]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

IMO you are over-thinking things.

[Tasha]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

 

I agree with your comments on WF needing to be tailored to the nature and genre of the game. Even many heroic genres seem to impose no WF penalties. For example, how much training did Flash Gordon or John Carter have in swords and bows? They seem to have no issue using them, but it doesn't seem like that would be something one would pick up playing polo.

 

John Carter is a Civil War officer IIRC. They still used sabers from their horses. Also he was really old, so no knowing how many other wars he had fought in before the civil war. With Bows, again it's hinted that JC is pretty much immortal. So he could have learned the Bow during his forgotten past.

 

Flash Gordon was a Yale Grad. He was a polo player, and could have conceivably taken fencing lessons before or during his college years. Bow is also frequently a sport taught in High School and College (I learned to shoot a bow in HighSchool and took Archery as a PE class in College).

 

I try not to sweat the little stuff. Any Pulp Fantasy Game that I ran that was like Mongo or Barsoom would have player pre knowledge of that destination. I would allow any character that had even the smallest idea of how they knew those weapons. So again the PCs could have those WF's

 

Now in champions, I have never really had an issue with Bricks tossing cars and using light poles a clubs. I guess if I had a player who routinely used these items, I might make him/her buy a brick trick power (ie 10d6 AOE 2m-4m No Range, Object of opportunity). for the Light poles and Cars. It usually isn't worth it to worry about it. Esp since 6e has killed much of what made Bricks so powerful for the small amount of points they are.

[GAZZA]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

What about +3 Combat Levels (all combat), only to offset weapon unfamiliarity (-1)? 15 points to never have to ever care again. And make it an Everyman skill for campaigns where you don't want to care for anybody.

[Vondy]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

I think the GM needs to decide whether he's going to apply the WF rule in a Supers game.

 

Or a heroic game, for that matter. I've run heroic games without it. It didn't break the system or give anyone an undue edge. That's one reason I like the "toolkit" concept. I get to pick and choose.

[Vondy]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

What about +3 Combat Levels (all combat)' date=' only to offset weapon unfamiliarity (-1)? 15 points to never have to ever care again. And make it an Everyman skill for campaigns where you don't want to care for anybody.[/quote']

 

If you're just going to make it an "everyman skill" there's no point in doing a write up for it. Just don't apply the unfamiliar weapon penalty in that campaign. Finito.

[GAZZA]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

If you're just going to make it an "everyman skill" there's no point in doing a write up for it. Just don't apply the unfamiliar weapon penalty in that campaign. Finito.

Indeed, I was basically just giving the writeup as an example for characters that want to be able to use any weapon. The everyman skill bit was just a throw-it-in there.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

I try not to sweat the little stuff. Any Pulp Fantasy Game that I ran that was like Mongo or Barsoom would have player pre knowledge of that destination. I would allow any character that had even the smallest idea of how they knew those weapons. So again the PCs could have those WF's

 

One option is to have everyone buy the WF's. But if everyone will have them, they don't differentiate between the characters, so why not just relegate them to the background and not require points be spent? If everyone has 150 points and spends 5 of them on WF, that's the same as everyone having 145 points and getting those WF for free.

 

What about +3 Combat Levels (all combat)' date=' only to offset weapon unfamiliarity (-1)? 15 points to never have to ever care again. And make it an Everyman skill for campaigns where you don't want to care for anybody.[/quote']

 

Why Combat Levels rather than Penalty Skill Levels (same result; lower cost)?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Because PSLs are specifically barred from being used to offset Unfamiliar Weapon Penalties, 6E1p84.

[GAZZA]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Because PSLs are specifically barred from being used to offset Unfamiliar Weapon Penalties' date=' 6E1p84.[/quote']

ghost-angel is correct, and any rumours you may have heard that GAZZA forgot about Penalty Skill Levels are to be disregarded as treasonous hearsay.

[Tasha]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Because PSLs are specifically barred from being used to offset Unfamiliar Weapon Penalties' date=' 6E1p84.[/quote']

 

Can you do it with Overall Skill levels (12pt)? and do they apply to Familarities as well?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Can you do it with Overall Skill levels (12pt)? and do they apply to Familarities as well?

 

Overall Skill Levels can still be used for anything (including Unfamiliar and Off Hand Weapon Penalties).

 

Familiarities still cannot get help from any Skill Level; Neither can Proficiencies. 6E1p56.

(personally, I disagree with the ruling on Proficiencies and would allow up to half a Characters applicable Skill Levels to be used with them.)

[Starcloud]

Re: Background Skill in Combat

 

Car wheels / a couple inches of rubber are not going to stop a lightning bolt. The reason you're safer inside a car has nothing to do with the insulation provided by the tires. Look up "Faraday Cage"; When you're in a car, you're surrounded by more conductive material, and a lightning bolt is going to flow through the metal and not through you.