Super Heroic Behavior

[Lucius]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

In this case the powers don't evaporate.

The unconscious of the hero would block temporarely his powers until (s)he will behave like a super hero.

 

While I'm at it:

 

Does this apply to supervillains too?

 

For that matter, does it apply to, say, police officers?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Does it apply to palindromedaries?

[Greywind]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

In this case the powers don't evaporate.

The unconscious of the hero would block temporarely his powers until (s)he will behave like a super hero.

Logic dictates then, at no point in time would there be villains, for as soon as they refused to be heroic, they wouldn't have any powers. Internal logic must also effect the NPCs or the game is inherently crap.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

In addition to previous comments, I would note that players start with, say, 400 points. They can certainly monitor their point levels much like dieters count calories. "I've got 400 points available, so I can murder the guy who cut me off on the freeway as a deterrent to others. I'll help a bunch of innocent old ladies across the street later to build my point totals back up. Good thing I took that Complication of Group NPC's - whole Old Age Home full of innocent old ladies that always needs help crossing the street."

[purple justice]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Thanks for your post Darbor. Your advice helps me to understand better the hero system.

Yes , Neilson 400 points let you kill a lot of people in the street... And you could recover points with the help you will give later to old ladies. So I give up the idea.

Lucius , I am sorry but I don't understand.

My first post is about the super heros' behaviors. The things we expect from the super heros.

[Greywind]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Look to the source material. You get a lot more Spider-Mans and Captain Americas, but every once in a while you end up with someone playing the Punisher or Wolverine. Heroes? Maybe. Heroic? Not really.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Logic dictates then' date=' at no point in time would there be villains, for as soon as they refused to be heroic, they wouldn't have any powers. Internal logic must also effect the NPCs or the game is inherently crap.[/quote']

 

I think that, "inherently crap" is a harsh way to put it. It does create a contradiction that must be resolved. Do villains lose their powers if they act heroic? Can normals develop powers by acting in an extremely heroic or villainous manner? Are there other axes of morality that grant powers? Why is the world this way? What does all of this say about human nature? Depending on the answers, this could be an interesting game to play in.

[purple justice]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

I never have been considering the Punisher like a super hero. In Marvel zombie , he continues to hunt gangsters whereas the humanity is threatened by zombies...

 

Indiana Joe, your post is interesting.

The vilains who become super heroes do not lost their powers. But they keep bad reflexs. They use their power without being careful of the street people. They energyblast the hostagetaker through the hostages. They flee away when they hear the ringing of the police . They leave the bank by the window instead of the main door. And so on...

[Greywind]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

I think that' date=' "inherently crap" is a harsh way to put it. It does create a contradiction that must be resolved. Do villains lose their powers if they act heroic? Can normals develop powers by acting in an extremely heroic or villainous manner? Are there other axes of morality that grant powers? Why is the world this way? What does all of this say about human nature? Depending on the answers, this could be an interesting game to play in.[/quote']Any game which amounts to the GM not liking the way you are playing, so you take a hit, is IMO inherently crap. Which it looks like the intended system is for. If the players are not interested in playing to the genre then the entire exercise tends to be a waste of time for all involved.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

He's an inexperienced GM who is new to RPing in general, so maybe try to be a little polite. You're coming off as rude, almost confrontational. What you have said has already been said by several others in a lot nicer way. No reason to bash the newbie.

[BlackSword]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

I can understand the interest in having a strict rule for enforcing superheroic conventions. I have had difficulty in the past with people not understanding, or not wanting to play/act in the superheroic ways after agreeing to play in a superhero game. It can be frustrating, especially when there is no strong way to enforce the convention. In one instance I used XP penalties, in-game consequences, and out-of-game discussions over dinner; I still had players murdering NPCs in cold blood.

 

I think the list earlier in the thread is a good starting place for a discussion with players. If there are movies or cartoons that fit in how you conceive the campaign, sit down with players and watch those together and have a frank discussion of the campaign you want to run.

[dsatow]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

What I try to do

 

I lay out the ground rules for morality, but I like playing on emotional traps in my role playing games so players have to decide how to act. I am not always impressed by the players. So, what is there to do about it?

 

This has been said before in many posts and articles but the effect is to do things in multi-fold.

 

1) Does the players action deserve a new disadvantage? If it does, then give them a new disadvantage but no compensatory points. For instance, if they killed a henchmen or a villain, they might get several hunteds, from Police and other Supers, to the villain and the friends of the henchmen. They may also have to lose any CVKs they have and replace it.

2) Do their actions have consequences? If Players start killing or beating up villains even if they surrender, then the PCs will note a sharp increase in the Villains going into a do or die mode. So far, my players haven't succumbed to this, but my villains will start to go postal if they start to lose to try and get away if the heroes continue to beat them up after they surrender.

3) The ever present news media. I always thought it stupid to see Lois Lane standing out where she could be hit by a stray blast filming the destruction as Superman fights with people like Doomsday. My reporters usually hide, have good concealment and photography skills. After all, a shove for a B list celebrity is likely to get you a bruise. A shove from someone like Superman is likely to have your spleen ruptured. Also, today, many people do cellphone reporting. This can come from the spectators who are too stupid to know any better to henchmen who are recording it for some supervillain.

4) Karma. If you use the optional rules for heroic points, people who do bad things should have their heroic points reduced. This doesn't stop many abusive heroes. Instead, I give the villains, Villain points. Its just the same as heroic points but only for maximizing their villainous appeal.

 

Hopefully that helps.

[Lucius]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Lucius , I am sorry but I don't understand.

My first post is about the super heros' behaviors. The things we expect from the super heros.

 

"The super heros' behaviors. The things we expect from the super heros." = "Moral"

 

What you are talking about is a code of morality. That is, rules that define how someone "should" act. It confuses me that this is what you're talking about, almost the only thing you're talking about, and then you ask "why do you talk morals?" as if you weren't the one who introduced the subject.

 

I can only conclude that it's the language barrier. I'm afraid your English is enormously better than my nonexistant French, so I don't know what the corresponding word in your language would be, but "moral, morality, ethics, ethical" are among the words we'd use in English for this subject.

 

If the players are not interested in playing to the genre then the entire exercise tends to be a waste of time for all involved.

 

Which is why several of us are stressing the importance of being clear up front exactly what kind of game is to be played. If the person running the game wants "four color morality" or says the game will be "Approved by the Comics Code Authority" I can deal with that. Or I'll try to.

 

Purple Justice, as has been said, the most important thing to do is, once you get a group of friends together to play, make sure you're all on the same page of the same comic book. If they just don't want to play the kind of superhero you want to see, nothing can make them; but if you don't talk about it beforehand, they may think it's okay to play like Punisher or Wolverine, but then if it's explained they will happily play like Captain America or Superman.

 

I suggest you write up a list of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, but - and this is important - try not to make it too long or detailed. Players will resent it if they feel their every action is predetermined, or if they have no space to establish their characters as individuals. Label this bare minimum "Code of the Hero" or something like that, and insist that all player characters take it as a Psychological Complication. This means that the players are agreeing to play characters who WANT to act like you think superheros should act.

 

Then if they don't measure up, you can give them fewer experience points. If they habitually or flagrantly violate the norms you establish, you can have in-game consequences - wanted by the police, feared by the public, condemned in the press, friends desert them, etc. Maybe if they turn around and act heroically again they can regain their popularity and respect. Or maybe you can let a player try again with a new character if the old one's reputation is too thoroughly trashed.

 

Finally, if someone says they'll play your kind of game but then repeatedly act like a villain, don't be afraid to tell them it's not working out. After all, if everyone isn't having fun, including you, what's the point?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Is the palindromedary having fun yet?

[purple justice]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

I suggest you write up a list of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, but - and this is important - try not to make it too long or detailed. Players will resent it if they feel their every action is predetermined, or if they have no space to establish their characters as individuals. Label this bare minimum "Code of the Hero" or something like that, and insist that all player characters take it as a Psychological Complication. This means that the players are agreeing to play characters who WANT to act like you think superheros should act.

 

I love your idea.

Why do not include this in the campaign ? At the begininning of the party , the Game Master / President of the USA recruits a super heros team.

If they accepted to work for the GM - it means to play the campaign - they have to sign a contract .

Then the real campaign can begin.

There is / are some spie(s) in the team and if a player does not respect the contract , the spie will kill himb or her.

[Lucius]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

I love your idea.

Why do not include this in the campaign ? At the begininning of the party , the Game Master / President of the USA recruits a super heros team.

If they accepted to work for the GM - it means to play the campaign - they have to sign a contract .

Then the real campaign can begin.

There is / are some spie(s) in the team and if a player does not respect the contract , the spie will kill himb or her.

 

 

And you don't see the irony in having someone practicing that kind of deception and assassination, as a way of encouraging a code of truth and justice?

 

I give up.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders what kind of comic books this guy's been reading.

[purple justice]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

And you don't see the irony in having someone practicing that kind of deception and assassination, as a way of encouraging a code of truth and justice?

Your post make me smile. Thanks.

 

My goal never has been to encourage a code of truth and justice. Who shall I to say someone you are in the right / wrong way ?

My goal is to prevent one player to rot a party. Specially with an unappropriate behaviour ( unappropriate for the others characters and the gameplay ).

 

I mean a player who is bored after half an hour of game and wants to attract attention.

[Greywind]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

You will find that the players, when it is not their time in the spotlight, will do things to keep themselves amused. It is a human nature.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Any game which amounts to the GM not liking the way you are playing' date=' so you take a hit, is IMO inherently crap. Which it looks like the intended system is for. If the players are not interested in playing to the genre then the entire exercise tends to be a waste of time for all involved.[/quote']

 

I also find players who refuse to abide by the genre conventions and the unwritten rules of the gaming group to be inherently crappy players. To me, the answer is the same as a lot of comments above - an up front discussion with the players on the type of game this is going to be. The GM abides by those decisions, and the players abide by those decisions. If I, as a player, don't want to play a 4 colour comics code approved character, and the game has been agreed to be one of 4 colour comics code approved heroes, then the onus is on me to bow out of this game, not to create a character who doesn't fit and slag the campaign for those who wanted to play that game.

 

My goal never has been to encourage a code of truth and justice. Who shall I to say someone you are in the right / wrong way ?

My goal is to prevent one player to rot a party. Specially with an unappropriate behaviour ( unappropriate for the others characters and the gameplay ).

 

I mean a player who is bored after half an hour of game and wants to attract attention.

 

Perhaps such a player should be asked to leave the game. Again, this comes back to having had the discussion about common expectations of the game between the players and the GM. "In this game, it is expected that the characters will be four colour, comics code approved silver age heroes" means that is the way characters should be designed and played. That expectation needs to be set up front, and the players and GM would then be expected to game within those parameters.

 

 

Frankly, it's only different from "Players will be expected to live with the results of their die rolls and not cheat" because the ground rule is not so standard that it can reasonably be expected to be known to every player and applicable to every game.

[purple justice]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Yes I would do as you advice me.

The player will be invite to leave the game and the character'll become a NPC.

[Bolon]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Has nobody heard of UNTIL or any of the other law enforcement agencies that would hunt down and capture heroes that are turning into villains? I personally enjoy the way the role-playing would become if they did. Why create a totally different set of rules? What happens if you do this in real life? You become a criminal rather than a hero and are arrested or hunted. The players don't get points for these hunteds. They can put a character into permanent retirement. I would give them a simple GM note to inform them that their actions will result in legitimate consequences. I have had a great time with Dark Champions with heroes who would skim off the criminals to support their heroics or even their covers. One hero was even a criminal in an alternate ID. If they get caught, too bad but I am just the game master and don't pick sides. I just give consequences.

 

If your heroes are acting like jerks, maybe the GM is the jerk because I personally did things like that when I wanted to damage a game as it was unfair and ridiculous. The game master had a NPC who was evil and giving the group a hard time. I used a power that was beyond their ability to know and was being chased almost immediately by a wizard police group who seemed to be able to predict the future by how quickly I was attacked and punished. Another game we were just fighters but able to defeat large armies of soldiers for some weird reason. Other players were calling us cowards for not fighting. It was actually all a cyber illusion or dream. In both cases, I walked away from the table as it was just not fun.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

While he phrases it far too harshly, I would also recommend against this kind of heavily mechanical system; if the players aren't on board with the kind of game you're going to run, they're going to subvert it, and if they are on board with the kind of game you want to run, you don't need it.

 

I'm finding myself in a similar situation; someone has mentioned wanting to run a samurai game in another system with a codified 'do this you gain honor, do this you lose honor' system, and I'm seeking ways around it as well.

[Opale]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Hey guys !

 

I read it all, and tough the original post of PJ was a call for help, I can't help but think that in fact he's seeking aknowledgement to numerize some bad Gamemastering habits.

Let me explain.

 

I'm a french Gamemistress of Champions since 2003, and in France we don't have the same culture. And it is important to know that to understand why playing Champions is so difficult in France.

Culture of the Hero doesn't exist here. Heroes are making people mock or smile. Superheroes that run in tight spandex suits even more.

The few able to understand that subculture are all geeks that grew up reading comics. I was one. I read them among classical things.

But when I read all that was posted, I see good ideas but badly used.

 

Code vs Killing is a classical HELP and not a disadvantage for players to me.

If you can't kill criminal, then you are moral.

Especially if you have superpowers.

"With great powers come great responsibilities"

 

Trying to translate all kind of crime into a disadvantages is two things for me :

 

- first it shows the GM is insecure with his team of player, and the control he has on it.

- second it encourage players to optimize character, and play against the GM instead of playing with him/her. And knowing me as I know myself, you won't play AGAINST me. You'll loose, so I'll... hehe

 

As to get advices on how to rp a superhero, well, it's kinda easy in fact. Try to be as moral as possible, and when you are comfy with it, try to add some "grey into your bright white colorful set of mind".

 

Opale,

Back to next game session preparation.

[Christopher]

Re: Super Heroic Behavior

 

Thanks for bringing this back up Opale. I think there is something usefull I can contribute.

My goal is to prevent one player to rot a party. Specially with an unappropriate behaviour ( unappropriate for the others characters and the gameplay ).

Your entire search reminds me of a problem I faced once: Totally incompatible gaming styles with my group. You want to play a certain way, and...

...either all players don't want to play that way

...or that single player don't wants to, but he/she is so important for the others to start gaming that you can't throw him out (friend of all, only one with a car, the guy with the place to play, ...).

 

My advice: When you can't change the group or this player, don't try to do it. Just stop.

 

The Hero players have some really stable ways to play online, either forum based gaming (herocentral.net) or the maptool comunity (chat/voip based play, can be found here and here).

For the later, the time difference may be a problem (I come from germany, have the same problem) and it requires good english skills (fluid speaking), so better take a look at herocentral. Here is a list of all superhero games looking for players. Here is the same, but for "Teen Champions". Most gm's announce their limits (pionts, disadds, Active Piont Maximum, etc.) either in the description or in the Campaign Messages. Usually along with guidelines what (gaming style/character types) they want.

 

And if enough french are out there in the forum or on herocentral, maybe you can even find enough people for a french game?

I am trying to do the same thing for german language, but you have the advantage that french was a colony language. Hero gets played in canada (Official languages: English and French) and there is even a own suplement for Canada, Champions Of The North so there are certainly a lot of french speakign people on thsi forum.

Just open a thread in the player finder and with a little luck, you even find someone else willing to play the gm