(5E) Origami summon build

[JusticeZero]

I've been put into a HERO game again, and I need help making my odd character concept, based around the Summon power, not be abusive, dysfunctional, or overpowered. Summon has a stopsign, and i'm being careful not to live up to that! Which is the main part of why I need help. I'm sure any discussion might be useful for others though..

 

The version is 5E, because that's what the GM has access to. (I'd like to go to 6E, but bankrolling enough books to get the group running is an issue right now, as much as i'd like to.) We were given 100+100 disads (built on 200, thus), and directed by agreement to use as vague guidelines limits of 50 active points and 10 defence, though exceptions are easily granted. The theme is superheroes, and we are supposed to build low-powered, newbie supers, overshadowed by the other great heroes and trying to make a name for themself.

 

I might have messed some stuff up too.. it's been awhile!

 

The character itself looks wonky. The main issue, though, is that I can't seem to get the summons figured out as far as what sort of builds on them to make them do what I want them to do, do it effectively, and only do what I want them to do.

 

The character is "Origami", a girl who's power, gained mysteriously after folding thousands of paper cranes to honor the wounded firefighters who rescued her, is to animate folded paper as single-use, limited duration automata. Team roll is supposed to be support/special; we have a martial artist and a flying energy blaster, and maybe a wind controller.

Here's what I sketched out, and the problems I have with it.

 

(73)Str 8, Dex 23, Con 13, Body 13, Int 13, Ego 18, Pre 13, Com 14
(0)PD 2, ED 3 (+5/5 body armor, below)
(7)Spd 4, Rec 5, End 26, Stun 24 <- I don't like these, the rec in particular, but, well, 100+100 character..  I don't know how serious of a problem this is off hand; not enough experience.

(15) Holdout body armor (5/5 Resistant, OIF Act. 14-)
(25) increased summons adder (a thousand, -1 only one at a time) <- this honestly has this many points in it mainly to help sell the concept, and for the 'thousand cranes' mythos in the background. I could go with a substantially lower number, say 8, without being inconvenienced.

(33)Origami Multipool
50 points, all with -1/2 OIF (Paper of opportunity) and -1/4 Gestures (has to make a folded paper thingy with both hands)
(7) Summon 100 point Origami Construct, +1 Devoted, +1/4 Expanded Class, -1/2 One task per summon (can't give new orders), -1/4 nonpersistant
(4) Entangle 4d6 - Paper box or screen, +5 Opaque to Vision, -1 Does not prevent use of accessible foci, -1 vulnerable to cutting
(10) Transform 3d6, paper to useful inanimate forms (bridges, ramps, tube columns, tents..)

Paper folding 18-, Breakfall, Language (Japanese, fluent), Paramedics, Stealth

It'd be nice to work in a little bit of Mental defense - she has a Zen Aura after all as a distinctive feature.. the stats - rec in particular - seem low in places.

Maybe I should lower the number of summons? Maybe I should make each summon a seperate power in the multipool?

 

The summons I have thought up are these so far - the GM offered suggestions too, but a lot of them seem abusive to me and i'd want to save them until after the GM stops pointing out to us that we're supposed to be inexperienced heroes. Inexperienced characters means limited toolbox, to me..

 

All of these are to have dex and speed bought to move at the same time as I do, for sanity sake..

 

CRANE: Fire and forget harrasser automaton. She folds a paper crane, which turns into an ostrich-sized folded crane that animates and flies/runs over to attack a target. Sure, light damage and could probably wear down a mook, but I mostly want this to be something that forces the target to take time to deal with it and lessens their effectiveness. What would work best for that? Coordinated attacks with heavy Stun? (My current best idea - give them all Teamwork and small Hand Attacks with Double CON Stun or something..) Some sort of melee drain or suppress? change environment?

PAPER PLANE: Travel vehicle. Fold a paper plane and climb on. The paper plane flies around and can carry people and generally acts like a small vehicle. When Origami gets off the plane, it reverts to a normal paper plane.

SHURIKEN: Basically a fragile fire and forget smart missile. Paper shuriken like high schoolers make lots of. Attacks to do damage. If this stuck around, the shuriken spam would get to be overpowering, so my thought would be that it's attack should have Charges x 1 in order to make it a more reasonable attack. I was asked why not just make it an attack with delayed phase; I don't want a reduced rate of fire, and by 5e rules, a delayed phase attack does not track the target. It's supposed to act like a fire and forget missile, more than as a DD. fliiiimsy, but versatile, and I don't want it to be overpowered.

BEAR: Strong, tough fire and forget servant drone. "Go carry that wounded bystander to the ambulance there!" "Break down that door!" My main worry here is that it might seem like an easy way to stack a lot of mini-bricks on an enemy, which I like in principle but don't want to be too overpowered.

 

Other ideas are, i'm sure, abundant (wadding up a paper ball and throwing it as a physical Blast was mentioned at one point, but I don't want to overdo that), but the whole principle is to send obvious, fragile, disposable fire and forget constructs to distract, harass, and chip away on enemies while doing assorted errands, and all while letting the other heroes look like the Big Heroes and not turning out to be ridiculously overpowered.

[Matt Holck]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

if the character is in combat

there is no time to create 1,000 constructs

 

the bridge and tents can be made out of entangles

on in 6th edition barrier would be used

[Doc Democracy]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

lots of these kinds of thing need to be thought carefully about the effect you actullay want. For example, a fire and forget shuriken I might be inclined to create as an Area of Effect attack, END only to begin, continuous and uncontrollable, only affects one target at a time, target may avoid by making a DEX roll, continuous removed if shuriken destroyed or target hit.

 

The idea is that there is a large area of effect over which the shuriken might fly. Its target can run out of the area, avoid the attack each and every phase it happens by making dodge rolls, shoot it out of the air or simply allow it to hit. This could be a low level STUN only annoying attack and costs lots of points. It would be a nice multipower slot and is not too abusive as it uses a lot of expensive advantages to get its effect.

 

To get your inexperienced character I would not base it on summon but on a set of multipower slots which are designed to get the effect you want. Each slot might be quite expensive and limited in its use. As you get more experienced, you would want to move to a VPP which would provide the kind of flexibility you need and give you flexibility over raw power.

 

 

Doc

[薔薇語]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

I think Doc has hit upon the right idea. Multi-power vs Summon. A single multi-power construct will give you access to most all the basic powers you want. Moreover, if having a summon is crucial to the concept you have (which it seems to be), it is possible to just make that one of the many slots. And since Summon is an instant power (despite it lasting effects), you can summon a creature in one instant and then revert back to a paper shield & Sword, or paper plane, or...

 

La Rose.

---I've been meaning to write up a character very similar to this for a while. Maybe I should take this bit of inspiration and do so...

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Summon is good if these constructs are supposed to stick around a while, otherwise the Multipower with slots for specific effects is the way to go as mentioned above.

 

If you do keep a Summon ability, I would suggest modelling the summoned creature as a regular animal (from the Bestiary) with Automaton powers tacked on (you might have to adjust defenses). That will keep the creature from being too powerful and save you from having to write up lots of summoned creature stats.

 

Finally, if you have a copy of the Bestiary, you might check out the paper golem, which is an origami automaton that might be appropriate.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Ockham's Spoon beat me to the puch. So I'll just add, look at Jackie Chan adventures, he fought a villian named origami. Though this one mutiformed into different animals.

[Susano]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

I'll point out that Summoning 1,000 Creatures isn't needed. As I understand it, that means you can Summon up to 1,000 beings at once. What you want is the ability to Summon one being at a time, but an almost infinite number of beings (provided you can fold them out of paper.) Also, the Increased Summons Adder is part of the Summon power, and is in the Multipower, not out of it.

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Did another draft. Found a few math errors. Slipped some points into end, rec, stun (10 rec, 400 end, 30 stun now). Turned all the individual summons into their own slot in the power pool, allowing each to be 125 points. (2 points each with -1 no new orders and -1/4 RSR) Added 1 point of Mental Defense and an Aid to Mental Def in the pool. Dropped summons to 8. Made the entangle into a straight 4d6 +2 DEF Standard Effect Only to create barriers.

While I admit that transforms can be a bit confusing (currently +1/2 improved target group, -1/2 all or nothing), and I wish the mechanic was a bit more clear, I must respond to this..

the bridge and tents can be made out of entangles

Characters cannot use Entangle to create objects other than barriers (such as bridges, braces, or stairs); to do that, use Transform.

-Long, Steven (May 2002) "Hero System: Fifth Edition", second printing, page 109

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

The Increased Summons Adder is part of the Summon power' date=' and is in the Multipower, not out of it.[/quote']I was treating it as a naked power advantage (outside of a pool, as required - pg 157).. it removes some vagueness since i'm using multiple forms of Summon, and other things besides in the pool (so the Summon does not always have points in it, which feels dodgy to me somehow). It's actually more expensive to apply the disads seperately here. It does increase the active points and thus, the end cost. It also makes the powers section of the character sheet significantly easier to read and understand, which i'll have to admit was one of my main reasons for doing it...

The GM didn't object when he looked at it in any case. I'll point it out again, but I don't expect to hear any objection.

[薔薇語]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

I'll point out that Summoning 1' date='000 Creatures isn't needed. As I understand it, that means you can Summon up to 1,000 beings [i']at once[/i]. What you want is the ability to Summon one being at a time, but an almost infinite number of beings (provided you can fold them out of paper.) Also, the Increased Summons Adder is part of the Summon power, and is in the Multipower, not out of it.

 

I don't have my physical copy of 5th ed and no digital copy of it but I don't think your first statement about "at once" is right. As I recall, a summon allows you to summon X number of creatures in total. So, if you use your summon that has "Two creatures" level of expansion in one round and use it to summon only one of them, the next round you can use it again but only to summon one creature as a max unless something has happened to the initial creature. But i could be wrong.

 

Secondly, if the desire is to summon tons of little creatures, it is best to not write up each one but to write up a "swarm" of them as a single creature. Then you just summon a "creature" that is actually 50-1000 smaller creatures. Like how one does insect swarms. ; )

 

La Rose.

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Paper Crane:

19 Str 13 No End +1/2 Double CON Stun +3/4

39 Dex 23

-20 Con 0

-16 Body 2

-8 Int 2

 

10 PD 3R (+2pd (2), resist for 3 (1.5) *3)

13 ED 3R

7 Speed 4

-15 Rec 0, End 0, Stun 0

45 Takes No STUN

6 +1/2 No End for 6" Running

25 Flight 8" +1/2 No End

-2 0" Swimming

 

13 Hand Attack +1 1/2 d6 (4d6 total) +3/4 Double CON Stun, +1/2 No End, -1/2 Hand Attack, +0 Does No BODY

 

2 Life Support: Extended Breathing - 1 minute (probably sufficient for most situations, really..)

2 Life Support - Vacuum

 

5 Teamwork 14-

 

125 points (50 AP summon with +1 Devoted)

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

I don't think your first statement about "at once" is right. As I recall' date=' a summon allows you to summon X number of creatures in total. So, if you use your summon that has "Two creatures" level of expansion in one round and use it to summon only one of them, the next round you can use it again but only to summon one creature as a max unless something has happened to the initial creature. But i could be wrong.[/quote']

 

The description seems to strongly imply that the Adder lets you summon more than one thing at once, rather than increasing the number of summons that can be in play. Emphasis mine..

"The character can double the number of beings he Summons for every +5 Character Points spent (these points do not count toward the Summonned beings' point totals.)" - page 142

"Generally, the most beings a character who can Summon can have Summoned at one time is equal to the maximum number of beings he can Summon at once, regardless of how many times he uses the Summon. For example, if he can Summon 16 lions, 16 lions is the most he can have Summoned at any one time, whether he uses the Summon once or several times." -page 143

"However, at the GM's option, a character can use his Summon phase after phase without restriction - he can Summon enourmous numbers of beings, regardless of how many he can Summon at any one time." - Page 143

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Paper Airplane:

Vehicle, full value as summon as per The Ultimate Vehicle 5e page 27

 

15 Size 3

0 Str 25 (800kg)

39 Dex 23

0 Body 13

3 Def 4 -1/4 does not protect all passengers

7 Speed 4

 

-14 Can Only Fly (-6" running, -2" swimming)

 

75 Flight 30", x4 additional noncombat movement, +1/2 No End, +1/4 Invisible Power FX to Hearing, -1/4 No backward movement

 

Total: 125 points

[dsatow]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

You can use the RoD* limitation on the power: Restrainable: requires dry paper and free hands -1/2.

 

*RoD is Read or Die. There is a OAV and an anime series. The heroines are called paper masters and do things similar to what you are describing.

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Is that really much different, functionally, from OIF Paper of Opportunity and Gestures? I'd considered it, but I wasn't clear on what differed.

[McCoy]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Discussion on another origami inspired character. Kamitora

[JusticeZero]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

OK, a bit hung up; on Shrinking and Growing it is said not to use the Power for things that are inherently big or small; instead, adjust the stats etc and then put a note in disadvantages.

 

Shrinking gives +kb inches and a penalty to opposing Per rolls; i'm not completely sure how to do those. Selling off levels of KB resist for the knockback, maybe, though I think the shrinking modifier only affects distance.. -1/2 to the sellback value?? The PER rolls i'm not clear on how to simulate. Sense modifiers: Concealed, claiming that being visible is an inherent active sense? Stealth? DCV levels for the size modifiers are clear enough.. Wish there was a note on how to do those in the power itself. Two of the most reasonable looking four combinations I see total out to costing the exact same for the Shrinking power as it would to adjust the figured statistics, so i'm going to end up using those numbers..

 

Paper Crab

-6 Str 3 (no END)

39 Dex 23

-20 Con 0

-18 Body 1

-8 Int 2

 

-1 PD 0

0 ED 0

-4 Rec, End, Stun 0

7 Speed 4

 

45 Takes No Stun

-2 Does not swim

6 Tireless: No End on 6" Running

1 Leaping +1/2", No End (total: 1")

3 LS: Breath 1/5 minutes

2 LS: Vacuum

50 Tiny: +10 DCV, -10 perception rolls, +15" knockback

 

10 Clinging

 

15 HKA 1d6 (total: 1d6+1) +1/2 No End, -1/2 Reduced Stun Multiplier (1d6-3)

 

3 Teamwork 14-

3 Stealth 24-

 

Total: 125 points

[Susano]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

You can use the RoD* limitation on the power: Restrainable: requires dry paper and free hands -1/2.

 

*RoD is Read or Die. There is a OAV and an anime series. The heroines are called paper masters and do things similar to what you are describing.

 

My take on the Paper.

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsanime/rod/thepaper.html

[Stalin_McRally]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

Are the Origamies supposed to have no "powers" besides being walking paper?

 

A suggestion themed on the firefighters and their sacrifice:

 

Give the the origamies a "drain fire" power that in turn damages them

saying that they "suck in the flames into themselves".

 

nothing big, only for flavor though.

[GoldenAge]

Re: (5E) Origami summon build

 

We have a character in Epic City whose powers are based on origami:

 

Crease:

 

 

CREASE 413/415

1 STR 11, 11-, 2d6, 1END 30 SPD 5, (3, 5, 8, 10, 12) 3 Linguist

18 DEX 19, 13- 0 PD 2/35, 33r 0 Cantonese (imitate

4 CON 14, 12- 0 ED 2/30, 28r dialects; lit)native

14 INT 24, 14-

7 EGO 17, 12- 4 END 40 (basic con; lit)

3 PRE 13, 12-, 2.5D6 3 BODY 13 1 English (basic con; lit)

10 OCV 5 6 STUN 32 1 French (basic con; lit)

10 DCV 5 4 RUN 16m 1 Greek (Byzantine)

3 OMCV 4 3 SWIMMING 10m (basic con; lit)

12 DMCV 7 2 LEAP 8m 2 Japanese (fluent

con; lit)

3 Acting 12- 3 Scholar 3 Latin (completely

3 Conversation 12- 2 KS: Books and Authors (3 APts) 14- fluent; lit)

5 Cramming 2 KS: Epic City (3 APts) 14- 1 Russian(basic con; lit)

2 Forgery (Documents) 14- 2 KS: History (3 APts) 14- 1 Spanish(basic con; lit)

5 PS: Librarian 16- 2 KS: New Orient (3 APts) 14-

3 Systems Operation 14- 2 KS: Tai Ch’i Ch’uan (3 APts) 14-

 

5 Eidetic Memory 6 Speed Reading (x100)

 

3 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, Block, Abort 7 OCV, 6 DCV

5 Escaping Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR vs. Grabs; Target Falls 5 OCV, 5 DCV, 26 STR

3 Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6, STR +2d6 Strike, Must Follow Block 6 OCV, 7 DCV, 4d6 HTH

4 Sword Hand: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 2d6 NND, 5 OCV, 6 DCV

2 Weapon Element: Blades, Staffs

 

Psychological Disad 20

OCD (Order and Organize)

 

24 Paper Mastery: Severe Transform 2d6 (Sheets of paper into power forms), Improved Results Group (+1) (60 APts); Limited Target ([Very Limited]; Paper only; -1), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2)

 

24 Notebook: Charge Battery, 60 Charges (-0) (30 Active Points); Susceptible to fire (fire destroys all charges; -1/4)

 

40 Resistant Protection (33 PD/28 ED/14 Power Defense/4 Flash Defense: Sight Group) (120 Active Points); 4 stock charge uses (-3/4), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Alternate Dispel (Fire; -1/2), Linked (Paper Mastery; -1/4)

 

67 Multipower, 120-point reserve, all slots Linked (Paper Mastery; Lesser Power need not be used proportionally to Power with which it is Linked; -0), Stock Charges Charges (-0), Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; +1/4) (150 Active Points); all slots Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Alternate Dispel (Fire; -1/2), Requires Stock Charges (-1/4)

1) 2f Paper Plating: Aid DEF 5d6 (30 Active Points)

2) 3f Paper Wall: Barrier 15 PD/15 ED, 5 BODY (up to 4m long, 4m tall, and 1/2m thick), Opaque Sight Group (69 Active Points); 2 charge uses (-1/4)

3) 7f Paper Attack: Blast 12d6, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; +1) (120 Active Points)

4) 3f Paper Fan: Change Environment (-10 to Normal Sight PER Rolls, +8 Wind Levels, Varying Combat Effects) (70 Active Points); 2 charge uses (-1/4)

5) 4f Paper Flock: Darkness to Sight Group 20m radius (100 Active Points); 4 charge uses (-1/2)

6) 5f Paper Ropes: Dispel active movement power 30d6 (90 Active Points)

7) 3f Paper Casts: Drain DEX 3d6 (30 Active Points) Drain STR 3d6 (30 Active Points)

8) 1f Paper Arms: Extra Limbs (2) (5 Active Points)

9) 2f Paper Blindfold: Sight Group and Normal Hearing Flash 5d6 (28 Active Points)

10) 3f Paper Wings: Flight 60m, x4 Noncombat (65 Active Points); 2 charge uses (-1/4)

11) 5f Paper Plane: Flight 60m, x4 Noncombat, Usable By Other (+1/4) (81 Active Points)

12) 1f Paper Club: HA +4d6 (20 Active Points)

13) 3f Hypnotic Paper Wheel: Mental Blast 5d6, Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Eye Contact Required (-1/2)

14) 1f Paper Sculptures: Sight Group Images, Alterable Size (15 Active Points)

15) 1f Paper Self Sculpting: Shape Shift (Sight Group, any shape) (18 Active Points)

16) 1f Paper Extensions: Stretching 20m (20 Active Points)

17) 1f Paper Doorways: Teleportation 10m, MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (20 Active Points); Can Only Teleport To Floating Fixed Locations (-1/2)