The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

[Ragitsu]

How would you folk build this amazing piece of light armor in HERO 6th Edition?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

First, decide what the upper limit of BODY damage that the armor will stop (possibly with some of the defense with an Only vs. BODY damage Limitation).

Don't apply the real armor or weight limitations.

Make it an Inobvious Focus (can be worn under clothes).

 

It's a very campaign specific build and the points only really matter if the characters pay points for ALL equipment in the setting.

If equipment is free or part of the equipment perk then it is just a special item that is just better than more easily obtained armor.

[Nevenall]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

I would refuse to build anything from the alleged Lord of the Rings movie, but I would build the one from the books with Resistant PD 8 and Resistant ED 4 or more depending on your campaign power level, IIF because you can wear it under your clothes, and NOT real armor because it never seemed to get damaged or need repair or slow down the wearer.

[Ragitsu]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

I would refuse to build anything from the alleged Lord of the Rings movie' date=' but I would build the one from the books with Resistant PD 8 and Resistant ED 4 or more depending on your campaign power level, IIF because you can wear it under your clothes, and NOT real armor because it never seemed to get damaged or need repair or slow down the wearer.[/quote']

 

Please, don't post if you are not going to contribute to the initial question.

 

First, decide what the upper limit of BODY damage that the armor will stop (possibly with some of the defense with an Only vs. BODY damage Limitation).

Don't apply the real armor or weight limitations.

Make it an Inobvious Focus (can be worn under clothes).

 

It's a very campaign specific build and the points only really matter if the characters pay points for ALL equipment in the setting.

If equipment is free or part of the equipment perk then it is just a special item that is just better than more easily obtained armor.

 

Good thing to consider. I am unsure if the shirt itself can only handle physical damage, or energy as well...

[Nevenall]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Sometimes I just can't help myself, but there is actual content in my post too.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Good thing to consider. I am unsure if the shirt itself can only handle physical damage' date=' or energy as well...[/quote']

 

First, I'd go with Hyper-Man's build

 

Second, in most Hero Games energy damage comes in the form of fire and heat, electricity, possibly some acids or other chemicals, light and/or dark, radiation, or even magic in some cases.

 

All of those, are, naturally, completely campaign dependent based on how the GM feels each SFX interacts to cause damage. Whether ED is needed on the mithril armor will then depend on how you view some generally assumed damage types - and if the mithril should protect you from them. I would say any covering has some protection to brief exposure to heat and fire (and who knows if mithril heats up like normal metals do to all but the highest temperatures needed to smelt it?), the rest is going to be campaign specific.

[L. Marcus]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

... I sorta got a weird concept of mithril = titanium.

 

I don't know where it came from.

[Vondy]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

I'd go with 8-12 Resistant PD, Hardened, Protects Locations 9-13 (liberally speaking, but could be 10-13), IIF Mithril Shirt.

 

Any body damage beyond what you set the value at can be defined as internal bleeding, bruising, and broken bones as opposed to punctures or cuts.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

How would you folk build this amazing piece of light armor in HERO 6th Edition?

 

Just ... Armor (or whatever 6e's basic defense is), OIF. Concealment check to hide it under your clothes. Done.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

I'd go with 8-12 Resistant PD, Hardened, Protects Locations 9-13 (liberally speaking, but could be 10-13), IIF Mithril Shirt.

 

Any body damage beyond what you set the value at can be defined as internal bleeding, bruising, and broken bones as opposed to punctures or cuts.

Looks good to me.

[Ragitsu]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Hm, it didn't quarter or halve any damage to the user?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Hm' date=' it didn't quarter or halve any damage to the user?[/quote']

 

That's really hard to judge considering that there was only one clear example of the armor stopping weapon damage that I am aware of (the cave troll's spear). I don't think it faced an equivalent magic/high-quality weapon.

[Greywind]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Well, since examples of magic weapons are rather scarce in Tolkien's writings...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Hm' date=' it didn't quarter or halve any damage to the user?[/quote']

 

How would you even measure that*? "Well, it's a six inch knife, but it only went in three inches. Of course, that still stabs him in the heart ..."

 

*In the narrative sense. Obviously, in a game mechanics sense, we can do that.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

How would you even measure that*? "Well, it's a six inch knife, but it only went in three inches. Of course, that still stabs him in the heart ..."

 

*In the narrative sense. Obviously, in a game mechanics sense, we can do that.

A chain shirt stopped a spear stab from a cave troll with no apparent damage.

[Sean Waters]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

If you want a piece of armour that stops all damage - if that is indeed what it did - then buy it with enough defence to stop all the Stun and Body from any attack you are likely to face in gae, and then apply the 'Invulnerability Metarule' so you don't even bother rolling.

 

It might have been a low damage roll anyway: it is impossible to say from a single example like this how effective a given defence is.

 

One interesting point on metal armour v energy is that metal conducts heat. Against a single energy attack, that might help: armour basically works by absorbing some damage and spreading the rest. Energy attacks will tend to heat up metal armour. It might well be appropriate to buy quite a high level of ED armour, with a limitation that the ED reduces (say by -2) for each attack it stops until it has a chance to cool down.

 

Also don't forget that you can buy non-resistant defence as well as resistant defence and call it armour: that is very appropriate as most armour has all kinds of (non-resistant) padding

[assault]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Well' date=' since examples of magic weapons are rather scarce in Tolkien's writings...[/quote']

 

Let's see... Anduril, Orcist, Glamdring, Sting + the daggers from the barrow, which included the one that zapped the Witch King.

 

On the bad side: the "Morgul-blade" that nearly killed Frodo.

 

Wikipedia has an article which is interesting, despite being on Wikipedia, and therefore unreliable.

[assault]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

If you want a piece of armour that stops all damage - if that is indeed what it did - then buy it with enough defence to stop all the Stun and Body from any attack you are likely to face in gae' date=' and then apply the 'Invulnerability Metarule' so you don't even bother rolling.[/quote']

 

I wouldn't say that Frodo didn't take Stun from the Cave Troll's attack. I don't particularly remember the scene in the movie, but he was clearly bruised in the book. Come to think of it, that could actually be a small amount of Body!

 

So, no, I wouldn't have it stopping all Stun. Body maybe.

[Sean Waters]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

All you need is enough defence to stop the damage then. We need to know how much a Cave Troll with a spear does for damage, then we need to know how much damage the hairy footed little darling took, and we subtract one from the other.

 

So. Where are we? Cave Troll: 35 STR? 30? 25?

 

Spear, presumably a pretty big one if the Cave Troll is using it for anything other than a tooth pick, so, what, 2d6 Kill? 30 STR? 15 STR minimum (I'm making this up, you understand): that is a 3d6 attack, maybe more if he was charging or using a martial maneouvre, but let us work with 3d6: that is 10.5 Body on average, so, assuming he took no Body, that is at least 11 rPD. Stun about 27 in 5ed, 20 in 6ed: a Hobbit probably doesn't have any more than 5 pd, even a tough one, so maybe a few points of non-resistant PD on top of that (especially if you are building in 5th). No idea on ED as I don't recall it stopping an energy attack.

 

Of course that makes an awful lot of assumptions and does not take into account the volatility of killing attack damage: the roll could have been a 14, or a 16, or for that matter, a 5. Who knows? What you really need it a battle where a couple of hundred people in mithril are attacked by a couple of hundred spear armed cave trolls, and a forensic examination of the bodies afterwards, assuming there are any.

 

Of course the other thing is that a 800 pound cave troll pushing against your chest with a pole is going to crush you by compression, even if it does not pierce whatever is covering you: chain mail is not going to be much use against crushing damage, after all. Perhaps chain mail should be built with a limitation that it does not work so well against certain types of damage. You could decide that comes under 'Real Armour' but that does seem to cover a lot of ground for -1/4. A seperate limitation may not be inappropriate.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

...

Of course the other thing is that a 800 pound cave troll pushing against your chest with a pole is going to crush you by compression, even if it does not pierce whatever is covering you: chain mail is not going to be much use against crushing damage, after all. Perhaps chain mail should be built with a limitation that it does not work so well against certain types of damage. You could decide that comes under 'Real Armour' but that does seem to cover a lot of ground for -1/4. A seperate limitation may not be inappropriate.

 

Maybe Elven Mithril is really Marvel Universe Vibranium

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Documentary evidence is needed - And it certainly doesn't look like a low roll. That's a solid hit and shove.

[Greywind]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Let's see... Anduril, Orcist, Glamdring, Sting + the daggers from the barrow, which included the one that zapped the Witch King.

 

On the bad side: the "Morgul-blade" that nearly killed Frodo.

 

Wikipedia has an article which is interesting, despite being on Wikipedia, and therefore unreliable.

By that then "Elven-forged" means magic.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

By that then "Elven-forged" means magic.

In LoTR, though, magic, rather than being a supernatural force, is a natural part of the world.

[Sean Waters]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

Maybe Elven Mithril is really Marvel Universe Vibranium

 

Thrrrpt! That means it should stop a speeding bus!

[assault]

Re: The fine Elven Mithril/Mithral Shirt from the Lord of the Rings movie

 

By the way, the arrow that killed Smaug might count as magic too. It was noted as an heirloom, and was clearly "special" in some way.

 

That suggests that "Dwarven-forged" could mean magic too!

 

"If ever you came from the forges of the true king under the Mountain, go now and speed well!"

 

Incidentally, the Dwarves engage in a lot of casual magic use in the Hobbit. I think there's probably more magic in LoTR than we usually remember, too. There's even a suggestion that Hobbits know a little magic, though it seems to have been of the more mundane kind.