THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

[Markdoc]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

That's actually a pretty good idea. Most magic systems (or characters) will have a set of limitations which is fairly standard - add them to those listed and you can calculate cost pretty much on the fly.

 

cheers, Mark

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Oh, I guess that it should go without saying that HSG ought to have some spells that demonstrate 6e's new mechanics like Damage Negation, Time Limit, Damage Over Time, etc.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Consistent power levels.

 

Most fantasy games are at the heroic level (I think), so I'd like to see the spells adhere to those guidelines. In the previous version it seems like many of the spells are all over the map in terms of power level. I don't mind having powerful spells in there, but powerful versions I think would be more appropriate so that it is more immediately useful as a resource for building 100-250 point level characters.

 

That means considering more than just Active Points. So, while 50 active points is the limit at Standard Heroic, 10 def is also the limit. No "Mana Armor" spell should provide more defense than 10 PD or 10 ED, or 5 rPD. That doesn't speak to anything about how the magic system restricts access to this spell, recognizing that a 5rPD spell, even at 0 END, is cheap.

 

I think this balance is very important. The value of the grimoire is diminished if a spell is overpowered for a given point level.

 

If nothing else, specifying a spell to be "Standard Heroic" or "Very Powerful Heroic" would be helpful.

 

That way, independent of what magic system is being used the spells can be incorporated more easily, and at the appropriate level.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Consistent power levels.

 

Most fantasy games are at the heroic level (I think), so I'd like to see the spells adhere to those guidelines. In the previous version it seems like many of the spells are all over the map in terms of power level. I don't mind having powerful spells in there, but powerful versions I think would be more appropriate so that it is more immediately useful as a resource for building 100-250 point level characters.

While I entirely agree with this principle, keep in mind that this book is supposed to be for multiple genres and power levels -- including superheroic, Galactic Superheroic, epic fantasy, Space Wizards, and many others.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

While I entirely agree with this principle' date=' keep in mind that this book is supposed to be for multiple genres and power levels -- including superheroic, Galactic Superheroic, epic fantasy, [i']Space Wizards[/i], and many others.

 

Right, so if you are building a spell that's appropriate for Low-Powered Superheroic levels (300pts), then state it as such. The clarity will be very helpful for people using the book in their campaigns, since they will have identified an appropriate power level for the game.

 

The alternative means that it is less clear what power level a spell is appropriate for. I think the character guidelines are very helpful for keeping campaigns balanced and structured, so aligning the spells with that structure would be very helpful.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Perhaps spells might even have suggestions for upgraded or downgraded power levels (eg. the standard is "Standard Heroic", and we indicate the damage/defenses/etc. suggested for low powered heroic right on up to superheroic). This way, we have a consistent power level for spells in each character power level.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I would really like to see is info on non-typical magic. We know how to build fireballs, lightning bolts, and magic missiles. The hard stuff is, how to build a spell that grants a Wish? Or a Circle of Protection that wards off Undead or the Minions of Hell, not letting them pass and nullifying their powers for those within? What about a spell that causes the recipient to suffer from Unluck? Or a permanent curse?

[JmOz]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

So I had a post here suggesting what Hugh sugested upstream about just the limitaton values, the only thing I would add to his post is to have it go both ways, so the real cost for addind and removing limitations instead of just adding them, but if you had just the spell with the absolute minimum of limitations needed to define it could work well as is.

 

I would also like to see "urban" magic, garbage golem summoning, invisibility in crowds, that type of stuff...

[dsatow]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think Steve is just trying to create a resource so players can quickly grab spells and make a mage. Kind of like the old Players Handbook from AD&D of old.

 

I would group by power level under each class of magic for the spells. Players can then call the lower powers spells, cantrips if that fits their games, and higher powered spells can be called rituals if need be.

 

I would also group powers in 3-6 DC increments. So low powered spells would be group such that they do not exceed 30 active(6 DCs), mid level spells would cap out around 60 active(12 DCs), and higher level spells would start at 75 active and not have limits (15 DCs or higher). Reasoning? Well, of the fantasy games I seen in play, either its lower powered with few martial maneuvers and skill levels which results in most players doing 4-6 DCs or is a moderate games where most of the fighters do 9-12 DCs based on skill levels and martial arts. Most Champions powers reside at start of a campaign around 12 DCs.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'll be brief by saying that I like KravenKor and JMoz's suggestions. Come to think of it, what about the "Science-Sorcery" from PAH? Will those become Cybermancy spells?

[dsatow]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I would really like to see is info on non-typical magic. We know how to build fireballs' date=' lightning bolts, and magic missiles. The hard stuff is, how to build a spell that grants a Wish? Or a Circle of Protection that wards off Undead or the Minions of Hell, not letting them pass and nullifying their powers for those within? What about a spell that causes the recipient to suffer from Unluck? Or a permanent curse?[/quote']

 

From Steve's initial message, I think he's basically arranging the spells from previously made products into this new product. I hope he's adding at least 25% new stuff as I probably wouldn't buy a rehashed product if I had the old product on hand.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Mostly I think of spells being built using powers, but I have run a couple low-level "realistic" magic-using characters that just had a collection of skills and some levels for them that cost END. So Mind Control would be built using the skill Persuation with a bunch of levels tacked on, or a Vanish spell done with Sleight of Hand, etc. I don't know that this would justify its own section or even inclusion as alternate builds for some of the spells, but I throw it out as food for thought.

 

As for specific spells, there are some that are classic but are not straight-forward to build that I would like to see. Namely:

1. a Wish spell

2. a Possession spell (for ghosts and demons really)

3. a Freeze Time spell

4. a spell that lets the caster lock his soul away in some object so that his physial body is invincible.

 

I have built all of these myself with varying degrees of success, but having an offical write-up would be nice, especially since these spells crop up semi-regularly.

[megaplayboy]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

At any rate, I would like to see some alternative builds for Wish, that don't involve "you travel to a reality where your wish comes true", which always, imho, seemed like a bit of lame dodge to avoid a tricky spell writeup. No offense, Steve.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

At any rate' date=' I would like to see some alternative builds for Wish, that don't involve "you travel to a reality where your wish comes true", which always, imho, seemed like a bit of lame dodge to avoid a tricky spell writeup. No offense, Steve.[/quote']I agree with this wholeheartedly. The EDM take on Wishes has generally seemed rather lame to me. Personally, I strongly prefer a VPP, with EDM being an option of last resort (and my impression, though possibly mistaken, is that most Herophiles agree).