Markdoc Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Hmm... been a long time since I had contact with formal anthropology courses' date=' but weren't many of the earliest human societies matriarchal? Are there theories as to why such a widespread social shift occurred?[/quote'] It's been suggested over and over again. Actual evidence, however remains sadly elusive. It was one of the things that used to drive my wife to distraction at Berkeley: whenever she asked for evidence, she got referred to entirely theoretical discussions. The truth is that we know virtually nothing about early human society: only that it apparently existed. And I want to emphasize again' date=' Mark, that what you argue makes a great deal of sense, and based on everything we think we know so far about the development of life (which knowledge continues to evolve and change, of course, based on new discoveries), your points seem likely to be borne out when and if we encounter extraterrestrial life forms. I guess my point just boils down to, until we do find such life forms to compare to our own, it's all just educated guesswork.[/quote'] Of course: my point was not that human-like form couldn't evolve. I was specifically arguing against the line "Well, evolution will probably develop intelligent life along these lines, so it's not improbable". It is highly, highly improbable - based on our current understanding. But our understanding could be wrong or the improbable could happen. However, the smart money does not bet on the improbable happening. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted July 7, 2010 Report Share Posted July 7, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. John W. Campbell Jr asked writers to do this decades ago "Write me a creature that thinks as well as a man' date=' or better than a man, but not like a man."[/quote'] I always thought that William Gibson did that, kind of, when describing the "Neuromancer" AI. And as for the article, yeah, it does seem to overdo the philosophy and maybe veers into metaphysics as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted July 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Hey' date=' that wasn't me... I got all the cat-girls I want in my own setting![/quote'] True, very true. But I've got zero-G adapted humans genetically modded for prehensile feet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. When people talk about how there were no aliens in Avatar except for humans painted blue...I think that underlines our selection bias. Avatar had flying reptiles, six-legged pack hunters and gigantic grazing herbivores. Dude, those are aliens, with nothing common with us. We ignore them in favour of the aliens who are in fact like us. "Those aliens aren't intelligent" you might say. Well anything that we'd recognize as intelligent would already have something in common with us of course. Even so...what about the planet? It's an intelligent life form, but it's about as different from us as you can get apart from that. But what we pay attention to is the species that is most like us. That being said if we lived in a galaxy burgeoning with life-bearing planets like all the cool sf universes have, would it really be all that unbelievable that some of the millions of species would be a lot like us? Well first of all, just what degree of similarity do you have in mind? In Sid Meir's Alpha Centauri Crossfire, the Progenitors are tool-making social bipeds so they are a lot like us. They also have grey scaly skin, faces like a play-do triceratops post-smushing, and their knees bend backwards. Their language has no consonants or vowels, just pitches and modulations. I'd say they are a lot like us, but are they different enough to be plausible? People also have a tendency to underestimate just how much the universe constrains us. I strongly suspect that when you are talking about social tool users, while our general body plan isn't the only option, if there were many social tool users, the range of variation would be limited by practical concerns and our general approach would be a common one. Similarly while any alien intelligence would have its unique quirks, any social tool user would inherently have things in common with us, and we'd regard things that weren't social tool users as being just plant and animal equivalents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. That being said if we lived in a galaxy burgeoning with life-bearing planets like all the cool sf universes have' date=' would it really be all that unbelievable that some of the millions of species would be a lot like us?[/quote']Maybe, but not orbiting the next star over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Maybe' date=' but not orbiting the next star over.[/quote'] Maybe God really did make the sentients in his/her own image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Maybe God really did make the sentients in his/her own image. Lets not start that argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Lets not start that argument Don't mean to start an argument . just a joke. I forget how poor senses of humor are about said subject. still if Aliens did resemble humans closely, I can see that coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Don't mean to start an argument . just a joke. I forget how poor senses of humor are about said subject. still if Aliens did resemble humans closely' date=' I can see that coming up.[/quote']no - I just saw how it could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Don't mean to start an argument . just a joke. I forget how poor senses of humor are about said subject. still if Aliens did resemble humans closely' date=' I can see that coming up.[/quote']Even among those of us who (as I do) believe that God made man in His image, a minuscule minority still think it has anything to do with physical appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. Even among those of us who (as I do) believe that God made man in His image' date=' a minuscule minority still think it has anything to do with physical appearance.[/quote'] Oh. I agree. It was just failed levity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Re: Aliens: everything you know is... well, "wrong" doesn't even begin to cover it. no - I just saw how it could kinda sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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