Growth SFX question

[Doc Samson]

Hello all.

 

I have a Champions character that is based on the mythological berserker. One of his powers allows him to change into a bear (with a few linked bear-like abilities). I bought this power as Growth because 1 level of Growth fits pretty well with what I want his stats to look like after transforming. Do I also need Shapeshift to look like a bear or can this be covered by the SFX of his Growth? For clarification, I in no way intend for the power to let the character pass as an actual bear.

 

In my mind, a good comparison would be a werewolf. I usually build werewolves as a group of powers (hka, regeneration, running, senses, ect.) with the SFX being that the character looks like a werewolf.

 

Thanks in advance for replies.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

I'm really beginning to hate Shape Shift. Compare with the standard "Instant Change" example which is a Cosmetic Transform costing about 3-4 points and affects all Sense Groups. With minor differences in Modifiers, it could duplicate Shape Shift entirely for a fraction of the points. Shape Shift is a really crumby semi-illusion power that I'm considering dropping entirely from the Power list for all of my games.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

Interesting. We have had similar thoughts. We usually treat it as a sense affecting power.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

I've read Shapeshifting like 20 times, and every time decided to go with Multiform instead. And if they want "shapeshifting" as a power set I just add a "variable effect" modifier onto the Multiform instead of making them pay for dozens of forms.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

I've read Shapeshifting like 20 times' date=' and every time decided to go with Multiform instead. And if they want "shapeshifting" as a power set I just add a "variable effect" modifier onto the Multiform instead of making them pay for dozens of forms.[/quote']

So, what if you just want to shapeshift? No extra powers attached? You use multiform? That seems...clunky at best.

[Greywind]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

So' date=' what if you just want to shapeshift? No extra powers attached? You use multiform? That seems...clunky at best.[/quote']Shapeshift for what purpose? To look like someone else? Disguise and Acting.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

Shapeshift for what purpose? To look like someone else? Disguise and Acting.

Well yeah, but what if you want a Power to do it ("perfectly" without a Skill roll, time and equipment, etc.). What if you want a "super skill" or an actual "supernatural power" to change your physical form. IMO it's worth a pretty set value for ALL Sense Groups, with a Limitation or a Distinctive Feature for a part that doesn't transform and can be detected without some kind of unusual sense (e.g. "Detect Shapeshifter" or "Detect True Form"). I'd rather see a distinction for Physical, Mental, Spiritual like there is for...oh wait, TRANSFORM (though probably a set Adder like +5 would work better for adding different aspects, rather than requiring the whole Power to be re-purchased). That makes more sense than requiring Sight, Touch, and Taste Groups to be affected if I REALLY don't want to have scales anymore (oh, and maybe Hearing so you don't hear the scales scrape together when I move...). Affecting different sense groups makes sense for Images where the intent really is to fool the senses. For something that actually changes the physical form...not so much so.

 

Shape Shift seems to me more akin to Transform or maybe even Desolidification than it is to Images....

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

Act like an inanimate object? And that changes how you feel if touched how, exactly?

[dmjalund]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

Act like an inanimate object? And that changes how you feel if touched how' date=' exactly?[/quote']You might not feel so violated

[prestidigitator]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

You might not feel so violated

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

I'd consider it SFX. He looks like a bear, but he does not look like a human. Of course, he may not act like a bear. In addition, you don't expect the power to allow him to delude others into believing he is a bear, so you don't expect the benefits of ShapeShift - I fail to see why you should have to pay for such a benefit if the character will not actually receive the benefit.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

I'd consider it SFX. He looks like a bear' date=' but he does not look like a human. Of course, he may not act like a bear. In addition, you don't expect the power to allow him to delude others into believing he is a bear, so you don't expect the benefits of ShapeShift - I fail to see why you should have to pay for such a benefit if the character will not actually receive the benefit.[/quote']

And that's fine. I wouldn't expect shapeshift for what basically ammounts to the manifestation of powers. However, I feel that Shapeshift is a legitimate Power in its own right, with specific uses and benifits that vastly outway trying to use 'superskills' or making a clunky alternative using Image.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

And that's fine. I wouldn't expect shapeshift for what basically ammounts to the manifestation of powers. However' date=' I feel that Shapeshift is a legitimate Power in its own right, with specific uses and benifits that vastly outway trying to use 'superskills' or making a clunky alternative using Image.[/quote']

My implicit proposal was to base it more on a Cosmetic Transform ("Instant Change") than Images. Actually I don't mind it being its own Power, but I think it's way to expensive to do a relatively simple thing. Actually, the current model is basically a clunky version of Images. If you used Self Only Images to do the same thing as Shape Shift, it would not only be cheaper, but it would be a Limitation--not an inherent property that has to be overcome with an Adder--to only be able to change into a single shape (though admittedly it would allow a Per roll to "see through it").

 

I'm actually mostly annoyed at it being a "Body-Affecting Power" with the requirements/framework of a Senseory Power. I think it should have focused more on the functional aspects of changing shape (somewhere between a Transform on self and a very minor/limited Multiform perhaps--similar to the way Change Environment can mimic very minorly the effects of other Powers for a very limited purpose), with possibly a small surcharge because, "Yeah, I'm really becoming a bear, so people see...A BEAR!"

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

I don't think I've ever used shapeshift for anyone without the "any form" advantage.

 

And yeah, IMO, "looks like a bear" is fine for being covered with SFX. A good guideline: will it ever be really useful to him that he looks like a bear while Growth is one? Can you ever see him getting the 10 points or so in CP in value as usefulness out of looking like a bear? I can't so I would say it's free.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Growth SFX question

 

And that's fine. I wouldn't expect shapeshift for what basically ammounts to the manifestation of powers. However' date=' I feel that Shapeshift is a legitimate Power in its own right, with specific uses and benifits that vastly outway trying to use 'superskills' or making a clunky alternative using Image.[/quote']

 

I agree, just have never (beyond a few one-off NPC's) had much need for shapeshifting for my players. Usually, they wanted to shapeshift and also gain powers for doing so (flight, claws, increased defenses or strength, etc.) In those instances, I have always used Multiform, and would recommend such to the OP for their Berserker Bear Form. Because, really, why turn into a bear if not to maul something (or someone...)?

 

I suppose I should have been more specific: Everytime I've looked at shapeshifting for a character who wanted to turn into some other form(s), I've ended up going with Multiform.