FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Susano]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing I was thinking about was discussion (under world building) of breaking out of the Tolkien/D&D mould. In other words, the elves, dwarves, and humans, versus the orcs, trolls, and dragons. One of the things I liked about Eberron was the idea that lawful good orc druids were defending the forests from incursions by demonic rakshasa. That really worked for me. The color-coded for your convenience dragons were gone, as were the "always X" races. Made things more real for me, as different races were allowed to have different cultures and (aside from humans) were monolithic entities.

 

On a similar note would be fantasy without strange races (the Black Company comes to mind -- it's all humans in there). Or, one without the standard tried-and-true races (i.e. orcs, dwarves, hobbits, elves, gnomes, and so on). The Final Fantasy games do this -- with Elvaan (okay... elves), but also Mithra (cat-eared and tailed people), Viera (rabbit-eared people), and whatever Freya's race is called (she's some sort of kangaroo rat humanoid.) Granted, I've just swapped one set pointy-eared characters for another, but I think it works and makes for a nice break.

 

Speaking of Final Fantasy, it would be nice to mention pushing genre boundaries. For example, in the FF games, you see swordsmen, lancers (guys with spears), and riflemen with muzzleloaders. Also airships and strange steampunk or magical tech. This also shows up in Iron Kingdoms/Warmachine, and really made for (IMO) an interesting setting. Even GW's Warhammer has some of that, with gunner armed with matchlocks and the dwarves with steam tanks and cannon.

 

I can't recall if its been mentioned before, but how about power stunts? Stuff akin to the brick tricks from TUB, or the martial arts powers in HSMA? Granted, this might smack a bit of D&D 4E, but it would help balance things between magic-chucking wizards and everyone else.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about something like the Champions Superhero Gallery, for Fantasy? I know that with wizards and varying magic systems it's a little harder, but throughout all of the versions of FH there have been wizard package deals/templates to use as examples, so I know it's possible to genericize them to an extent. Also, the wizard templates could have a note attached to the effect that because magic systems can vary so much we're not including spells in them, but each one can leave a certain number of points unspent to cover magic.

 

It would be easy enough to make a basic Characteristics template for each, along with a couple of variations (Quick Warrior vs. Strong Warrior vs. Tough Warrior; Quick Rogue vs. Faceman; Brainy Wizard vs. Fighting Wizard; Holy Warrior vs. Preacher vs. Healer).

[Curufea]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see characteristic based archetypes and settings.

Something like recommendations "High STR is good for weight lifting/farmer or muscle powered weapon types, and for low fantasy military or farming setting"

It would get more esoteric for the mental OCV and DCV and for END and REC - but it would provoke GMs and players to think about how fantasy as a genre is applied in different ways.

[ghost-angel]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It occurs to me that a few words on using more than one magic system in the same setting would be appropriate. For example, the system used by humans could be highly ritualistic, while that used by the Fey Folk is much more free-form, and people from a third culture have a whole 'nother set of restrictions. Or, a campaign could involve travel between two or more different worlds, and magic works differently on each.

 

A couple of sentences to (at most) a couple of paragraphs on the topic should be plenty for this -- just enough to give the GM ideas.

 

This is a good idea - some advice on balancing multiple types of Magic in one setting would be cool; or at the very least how to adjust bits to give off different flavors of magic with similar builds.

[Susano]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Methods for getting the PCs together.

 

There's the quest model (as seen in the Lord of the Rings)

There's the recover what's rightfully mine model (as seen in The Hobbit... and a million other examples)

There's the gathered for a common cause model (best shown in Seven Samurai... and a zillion knockoffs)

There's the mercenary model (initially seen in The Deed of Paksinarrion and in the Black Company novels)

There's the chance companions model (also Seven Samurai, but also in a way Pirates of the Caribbean)

There's the free-ranging sell-swords model (Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser)

...and so on. I presume you can find other (and better) examples.

[Steve Long]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about something like the Champions Superhero Gallery, for Fantasy?

 

See post #16 in this thread.

[Old Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It would also amuse me to see examples of Hero doing things well that other game systems do poorly. "Multiclassed" characters, wide ranges of skills, light fighters, really unusual races, etc.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Some HERO books had brief descriptions of typical genre character non-templates like the Disgusted Vet (DC), the Young Punk (NH), and the American From the Orient (UMA). It may not apply to Fantasy HERO considering that many typical characters also qualify for a template but I figured that I'd throw it out there.

 

 

Secondly, I think that Clarke's Third Law and Clarke's Third Law Corollary should be explored within the magic sections.

 

 

Thirdly, I've said it before to count me in for liking the suggestion for Heroic Feats for non-magic classes. If D&D could wise up to that, then HERO surely could. I'm sure that A Fistful of Talents and A Few Talents More could be recycled some in a section like that.

 

This does have me thinking about how Iron Heroes was basically D&D without the magic.

[Hierax]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Glad to see FH as the big GenCon release! Next to Champions, I imagine, that this has to be your biggest part of the Hero System.

 

That said, part of what I'd like to see is options for differentiating Fantasy Hero from several lingering Champions-isms that are still assumed in the core Hero System -- make more of a Heroic instead of Superheroic default for FH.

 

• Movement Powers Costs: Running, Swimming, Leaping, Flying, and Teleport should have a wider range of cost; not unlike in pre-4th ed. Fantasy Hero where: Levitate/Fly was 2pt/1" min 20pts, Transport/Teleport was 30pts/10". That sort of thing, I think you even mentioned it in the core 6e or APG about potentially changing the costs. Something like: Running 1pt/1m, Swimming/Leaping 2pt/1m, Flying 3pt/1m, Teleport 4pt/1m or somesuch. It would be a great Toolkit thing for FH to have more genre-appropriate movement cost differentiation options.
  

 

• Breaking Things: each genre, and sub-genre, treats objects differently, so it would be good to have a range of DEF/BODY for Objects for Low, Medium, and High Fantasy so the GM can dial-in the appropriate fragility of the universe for his game. This applies not just to doors, walls, etc. but Weapons, Armor, Shields.
  

 

• The "Real Weapon" Limitation but it seems like a bit of a Champions-ish cludge to use in these contexts, non-Real Weapons should be a Heroic Advantage rather than just having "Real" being a Super-Heroic Limitation. Again options should be available here for toolkitting.
  

 

• Likewise the Beam, Bounce, and Spread options that are expressed as Limitations to avoid would be a lot less trouble for Fantasy if they were Advantages for the few times that they are needed rather than the default.
  

In general, more options for Granularity should be made available for FH:

 

• MegaScale: why not have at +1/4 10m version, a +1/2 100m version, a +3/4 500m version? Jumping right up to +1 1,000m/1km is a bit much.
  

 

• Gestures and Incantations are very key Limitation in a Fantasy Context, so zooming in on them and adding Toolkitted granularity would be very useful, e.g.,: +1/4 subtle somatics, +1/2 regularly noticable overt motions, +3/4 extravagantly obvious gesticulating; +1/4 whispering, +1/2 Regular Voice, +3/4 Shouting. This is sort of like the APG optional Time Charts. Which BTW Extra Time could also use a bit more granularity too (the move from 4e to 5e was one of the better improvements for more options, why not give a toolkit option to take it further?)
  

 

• Limited Range more granular options also are useful for Fantasy. Big jump from Regular range to No Range. Toolkit in more granularity.
  

 

• Silence not all or nothing like in Pre-4th ed. FH. Same could be done as an option for Invisibility.
  

 

• Size more intermediate sizes like APG but take it further since Fantasy can offer such a wide range of "races".
  

Expand upon things already done before:

 

• Weapons, as mentioned, do up multiple systems like you do for Spells (one of the best parts of FH BTW). It's no secret that the default Weapons System isn't exactly a fan favourite, but giving more options would get around this criticism and, moreover, be useful for showcasing how Hero System can do things that other systems don't -- embrace that flexibility!
  

 

• Spells properly address Frameworks for Fantasy. Somehow they always seem to just be an afterthought not a primary method. One thing that you could do is to put in the option for the Real Point MPP already mentioned in 6e, give it more detail and use it for an example Magic System.
   
  I can see part of the reason for removing Elemental Controls but one thing that is lost by getting rid of them is a "point floor" rather than a "point ceiling" Framework, perhaps you can suggest a Toolkitting option to return this sort of utility using MPPs and/or VPPs?
   
  VPPs Spell Preparation/Memorization the time to study and materials needed to change the pool could use options for more granularity.
  

 

• More example Magic Systems those are one of the best parts of the book! Fantasy fans love this stuff (e.g., look at the explosive popularity of Killer Shrike's many magic systems). Seriously, the best/easiest candidate for inclusion is the Valdorian Age summoning system which is a real gem that it would be a crime not to include in the new FH given it would be fast to update to 6e and has proven popularity.
  

 

• Critical Hits are popular in Fantasy give some more options.
  

 

• Talents, Stunts, and Powers etc.: great to have these pre-builts lots of good ones in FH, Valdorian Age, etc. and the recent 6e Martial Arts book does a great job of giving much more of this, Fantasy could use these as well chapters for low-med-high Fantasy. More please!
  

 

• Independent and Creation used to be a big part of Fantasy Hero; in pre-4e the interaction between them was clearer, Independent was still around for 4e and 5e, but now with 6e it's been pushed off. Fantasy is where Independent has strong roots because of it's usefulness and appropriateness to the genre, so I hope to see it return at least as a Toolkitting option. Take a look at the pre-4e FH and see what you can put back into 6e.
  

 

• Foci the Personal vs. Universal thing with and without the Independent Limitation is quite different. Also the Usable by Others logic is missing from Universal Foci that are a cheap way to give others a power; with Independent there was a cost to the Caster for making a power available to others, with Usable By Others this utility is paid for by making it an Advantage, but with Universal Focus it's just a cost break Limitation that can act as an Advantage.
  

 

• Mana as a Characteristic for Spell Points have been mentioned before but a more in depth look at some options and how spells could be powered by Regular END, END Reserves, LTE, LTE Reserves, Mana, Mana Reserves could be a very useful section particularly with some cost comparisons and toolkitting suggestions. LTE END is often mentioned but few real guidelines on how to cost it out vs. regular END be it alone or in Reserves. These sort of details would be useful tools to work with.
  

 

• Damage Negation is an awesome new power with a whole lotta potential; as such I hope that there's a decent sized chunk of advice and examples of ways of using it for Fantasy.
  

 

• Piercing is a long standing optional rule popular with Dark Champions and now in the APG, some discussion/examples for Fantasy would be useful and welcomed. Likewise the Armor Piercing option from APG/DH/AC is a good one for Fantasy.
  

 

• Characters, examples are the best way to showcase the variety of the system and how to adapt it to a genre. Have sample Wizards for the various Magic Systems. These can help tie together all the sidebar power builds -- e.g., isn't it about time Arkelos got a full write-up (I've got a file with all his powers from all the various editions to save you time if you want).
  

 

• The Gallery idea from Champions has been mentioned and its a great one, FH should have it too!
  

 

• Side Bar Examples: really fill up that content using the white space without bloating the page count by blasting us with sample spells, talents, items, etc. More is more here.
  

I could go on and on but there's a few things I'd like to see in FH6e.

 

Overall, Fantasy Hero has been one of the best books and 6e is an edition that is giving us more options than ever before, so continue the trend and jam as many optional tools into the Fantasy Hero toolkit as you can.

[Jhaierr]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In the chapter on world creation, a section on Death.

 

In other words, how to decide on various things regarding death in your fantasy world. Can people be resurrected at all? If so, how difficult is it? If it's relatively easy or even merely possible, what are the effects of this on the world? (e.g., "I can be resurrected, so I will sacrifice myself more readily.") Perhaps someone can only be resurrected once, or only using blood from a family member, etc.

 

What happens when a character dies? Does it vary with his/her religious beliefs (and they go to different places), or does everyone wake up on the Endless Field of Grain? Are you punished for acting horribly in life, or is everyone in the same place? If you have planar travel in your world, can you get to the Plane of Death? Does this Plane of Death have anything to do with necromantic magic, or is that drawn from the plane of the Undead (or something).

 

In fantasy, death and sacrifice is often a primary theme that is directly explored, so it would make sense to explore it.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I agree with Heirax that some more critical hit rules would be nice (among other things - what a whopper of a post). I recall the Bashing, Slashing, and Piercing Critical hit rules but I wonder if there are more places to go with that, if in a toolkitting capacity.

 

I do also agree that Piercing should make some appearances within the weapons and magic sections.

 

Maybe the idea of Racial templates modifying the Characteristic Maxima could be revisited in a Toolkitting Box.

 

 

Champions 5e (haven't read 6e yet) discussed "Unified Theme Campaigns" for superheroes. I think that this could easily apply to Fantasy as well except that it's more about making campaigns with a singular fantastic concept. How To Train Your Dragon stands out as a recent example of this.

[Norm]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

1. Recharge/limited lockout for a power/talent/spell. Charges has increased recovery time and unless I am missing something that is simple, a limitation that says I can only use a spell/power once every minute (or one hour) would be neat.

 

2. One of my big issues has been balancing buying spells for the magic user and free items for use by everyone. I am not sure that someone has already mentioned something like this. Besides only charging 1/3 (ala Turakian Age), what other ways can be presented? For example, what about using resource points (ala Dark Champions). Two options that I can easily see: A. Everyone still gets free stuff, and magic users use resource points to buy spells. B. People have 2 resource point pools, mundane items and magic (spells and items).

 

3. A way to write up sectional armor. Something that can specify hit locations and not just use an activation roll to represent it.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

3. A way to write up sectional armor. Something that can specify hit locations and not just use an activation roll to represent it.

This one already exists...

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

This one already exists...

Not in Hero Designer, it doesn't.

[Susano]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Not in Hero Designer' date=' it doesn't.[/quote']

 

What you need is the chart I have, that show locations to activation rolls. In other words, if your armor only covers 3 locations, then that's a 8- activation roll.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Not in Hero Designer' date=' it doesn't.[/quote']

1) Hero Designer is not "the rules". The rules in 5ER had a whole section on sectional defenses. I haven't read all of 6E yet, but I'd be very suprised if it didn't have the same.

2) The 5E template in HD still has Sectional Defense as an option. I don't know why it's not in the 6E options, but you can easily use the Custom Limitation option and plug in the values.

 

The fact that something is missing in HD does not mean it is not in the rules (though maybe something changed with 6E and it truly isn't).

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

No, but it should be an accurate reflection of the rules.

[ghost-angel]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wrong thread for this - take it somewhere else.

[RexMundi]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think, I wouldn't want to see more of the scarey Fantasy character MMO looking Art for the fantasy book that was used as the example characters in 6e. Their Facial expressions frighten me. Uncanny Valley Syndrome!

 

~Rex

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The Force from Star Wars could be presented as a magic system, as could Chi in general.

[Odraude]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The Force from Star Wars could be presented as a magic system' date=' as could Chi in general.[/quote']

 

I would really love to see a Ki pool system of magic as I do enjoy playing monks in fantasy games.

[Susano]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would really love to see a Ki pool system of magic as I do enjoy playing monks in fantasy games.

 

HSMA should help with that.

[Escafarc]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about some rules for running a "Superheroic Level" fantasy game instead of the standard "Heroic Level"

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

HSMA should help with that.

 

While I still haven't bought nor read HSMA methinks that if it was explored that some of the powers from there could be repackaged as spells for just such a magic system.

 

In fact, I think that Fantasy HERO should delve at least a little bit into Eastern Fantasy, even if HSMA probably covers that pretty well. If nothing else, it could explore the things that are relevent from the Fantasy genre portion of them in the same way that HSMA presumably focuses on the martial arts aspect.

[The Main Man]

Re: FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about some rules for running a "Superheroic Level" fantasy game instead of the standard "Heroic Level"

 

That makes me think that maybe either some or all of the magic systems could have suggestions for modifying them to suit High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, and Sword & Sorcery/Heroic Fantasy.

 

Or maybe, alternatively, each Magic System could have a block of text with some quick info, including which kinds of genres that it is appropriate for.

 

And as far as Superheroic fantasy goes (which I'd like to see, yes), I'd imagine that quite a bit of material could be recycled from Atlantean Age, The Ultimate Mystic, and The Mystic World from 5e.