Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

good ond lucius

 

I liked Lucius' take on the Iconoclasts. It's an intriguing variant on the 'mutant hysteria' that shows up in some worlds, combined with an X-Files vibe. I think I'll include them as a loose group of individuals who've taken an interest in Icons and Icons-enhanced beings.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

It would fit the background that if something like this happened, a version of the Icon Effect would prevent it from having long-term/irreversible consequences, just like the store itself is never mysteriously revealed. It could still be very awkward in the short-term, of course.

 

This interpretation would probably require that Steve reduce the value of SID for the campaign, though.

 

That's definitely one possibility for how it could work. The 'Icon Effect' is a nice technobabble term. Rep to you for suggesting it.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

That's a good point. Maybe some are unmasked and lose their powers and others can be unmasked and don't. I'm still feeling out the ramifications of this issue. The idea that a costume has a set look for the person's appearance under the mask is interesting. That would be an intriguing addition to passing on a costumed identity in the case of death. Every wearer would look the same under the mask, which could actually help to preserve secret identities.

 

There is also the gender bender possibility. A male could transform into a female super identity.

Of course, the costume is more than just a mask. Removing the mask does not remove the costume.

 

That being said, the question of whether the Secret ID is revealed by the super or by another is clearly a question of choice. Having been duly warned against revealing oneself as a part of the agreement with Icons, if the super chooses to do so, they have obviously chosen to abrogate that agreement.

[csyphrett]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

The fly was unmasked and due to his transformation no one knew who he was. He was an adult version of the alter ego with fly eyes out of costume.

CES

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Of course, the costume is more than just a mask. Removing the mask does not remove the costume.

 

That being said, the question of whether the Secret ID is revealed by the super or by another is clearly a question of choice. Having been duly warned against revealing oneself as a part of the agreement with Icons, if the super chooses to do so, they have obviously chosen to abrogate that agreement.

 

This raises the interesting issue of what happens to a superhuman who had their identity revealed against their will. If Superhero X is un-masked on television by his arch-enemy Supervillain Y, he has not violated the Icon Pact, so he wouldn't lose his powers. But the world would know that Superhero X was really Peter Kent, unless there is a physical change of appearance of the person under the costume. Maybe some superhumans would have such a change, but others would retain their own face.

 

In the case of a supervillain being held in custody after being defeated by a superhero, they were not un-masked and de-costumed of their own free will, so they are not permanently de-powered. Instead, they simply lack their powers until they can regain their costume. If they have allies on the outside, this would be a matter of stealing the costume back and staging a breakout.

[Lucius]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I keep picturing the tailor shop from The Man from U.N.C.L.E.' date=' all you need is a secret panel in a fitting room that leads to the superhero base outfitting shop.[/quote']

 

I keep thinking of the Weapon Shops of Isher

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises: The Right to Buy Palindromedaries is the Right to Be Free

[Lucius]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

If they're playing an RPG how about Icons and Infamy©?

 

I prefer the idea of a single store for heroes and villains.

 

However, if there were two, I would want them named Champions, and Villains and Vigilantes

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises: We sell more than just palindromedaries

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Another option for involuntary unmasking is the traditional comic book way: after the episode involving the revelation of the super's secret identity, everything resets to normal. We expect Hunteds to generate stories not kill off characters, same for Secret ID, it shouldn't normally result in the ultimate consequence. The 'Icon Effect' suggested earlier might manifest in the form of witnesses getting amnesia or deciding to keep the secret, a convenient double being handy, and so on.

 

One way to do it would be for Icons to intervene directly, sending an agent of the store to take care of the mess.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Another option for involuntary unmasking is the traditional comic book way: after the episode involving the revelation of the super's secret identity, everything resets to normal. We expect Hunteds to generate stories not kill off characters, same for Secret ID, it shouldn't normally result in the ultimate consequence. The 'Icon Effect' suggested earlier might manifest in the form of witnesses getting amnesia or deciding to keep the secret, a convenient double being handy, and so on.

 

One way to do it would be for Icons to intervene directly, sending an agent of the store to take care of the mess.

 

I guess you could express that idea this way. With every costume comes an insurance policy: Should your real identity be threatened with revelation through no fault of your own, Icons will help you maintain your anonymity even while you enjoy using the powers you have acquired from them. I suppose if you can accept a world where humans are suddenly able to fly or fire bolts of power at each other, some coincidental help in maintaining a secret identity might not be out of line.

[Burrito Boy]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

In a shop full of colorful and even gaudy fantasies, the costume John held stood out for plainness. It was a simple hooded robe that reminded him of the brief time he had spent in a monastery. The answers hadn't been there either. He stared transfixed as he stroked the materieal. He KNEW there was power in it. Power he needed. With this he could solve the Big Problems, and not just for himself...

 

Reluctantly, he hung it back where it came from.

 

"Are you sure?" asked the surprised Tailor, "It fits you perfectly."

 

"I'm sure" answered John. "I can do what needs to be done myself. I don't need any deals with the Devil - not metaphorically and not " and here he gives the Tailor a measuring look "Literally."

 

He was careful who he told of course - who would believe him? But inevitably word got out, and he was only the first and not the last to say "no." And everyone knew the new glut of Costumed Adventurers had to come from somewhere, so before long the "urban legend" got a lot more credible. Everyone had heard of Icons. And a lot of people didn't like the idea.

 

Thus, the Iconoclasts. Not truly an organization except in so far as some of them were organized and looked to John for leadership, not even really a "movement" - some really thought the Tailor was the Devil, some thought him an alien or mad scientist or wizard or even Oberon the King of Faerie, and some readily admitted to ignorance but thought it was vitally important to try to FIND OUT. Iconoclasts were newspaper editors writing columns warning of the dangers of too much power in the hands of too few, legislators crafting laws to restrict costumes or proscribe the use of "superhuman abilities," crackpots marching with protest signs, scientists intensively studying scraps of data as they become available and arguing over the implications, obsessives collating information on each new appearance of a Shop, each new Costume, trying to track down the mysterious Tailor or find answers to the burning questions: Who is he? What is he trying to do? What is he ACTUALLY doing? Some were even customers of Icons, unable to say too much directly but willing to let themselves, their abilities, their costumes, be examined and measured. And while the media labeled them all "Iconoclasts" they fought one another almost as much as they worked together.

 

What place a group like the Iconoclasts would have in the game would depend on what's really going on with Icons. They would almost have to be a mix of some of the best and the worst of people: from those moved by fear and hatred of the new and unknown, to the truly heroic examples of human self-reliance who simply argue that people should not be dependant on "supermen" nor on mysterious benefactors however benevolent. They could turn into worse antagonists than the supervillains, or if the nature of Icons is truly sinister they could be humanity's saviors, and then again they could just be comic relief. Maybe they could even be all three.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I found a palindromedary in the stable out back of the Icons store

 

This reminds me of The Collectors in the Sci Fi channel mini-series The Lost Room. Which is what the original premise reminded me of. Add that to the Greatest American Hero element that Steve already mentioned and this is a game I'd kill to play. Villain for me, thanks.

[matrix3]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the Tailor didn't make you choose Hero or Villain? With the power in these suits, the Tailors and/or his backers have no need for money, so why would they require a tithe from Villains? And what good would having people out saving lives do? The suits represent power. Power may be used for "good" or "evil" depending on who wields it and (more importantly, perhaps), who writes the history books. Maybe the only requirement is that these suits, and their powers, get used.

 

What happens when a bunch of people show up with powers? Whether the powers are used to stop a bus full of blind nuns from falling off a bridge, or used to shrink a city and hold it for ransom, attention will be paid. Articles will be written, factions will form, people will talk, and attention will be directed towards these people and the suits they wear. In many stories, gods run on the attention and prayers of their worshippers. And those prayers must be getting mighty scarce in the modern day. What if that is the impetus of these suits? To act as avatars and drum up attention and "prayers" After all, "Aaah, Uberman! Save us!" coming from people in dire trouble sounds pretty much like a prayer to me. And the villain shrinking a city and holding it for ransom would sure encourage the people in that city to pray for his nemesis to come save them.

 

What do folks think?

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I keep thinking of the Weapon Shops of Isher

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises: The Right to Buy Palindromedaries is the Right to Be Free

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who went there.

 

I was thinking "The Weapon Shops of Isher meets Fantasy Island."

[Querysphinx]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

I prefer the idea of a single store for heroes and villains.

 

However, if there were two, I would want them named Champions, and Villains and Vigilantes

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises: We sell more than just palindromedaries

 

Heh. I think that the most mysterious and enigmatic route to go would be if there was really only one shop that had a door that opened wherever it was needed. It's not a place people can get back to, not on purpose. Not by going to a place. The only real way to get back would be by going to the right state of mind with the right kind of need.

 

Details like getting a suit altered or repaired could be handled on a story by story, personality by personality basis. Let''s say iron-guy gets a suit of icon-tech armor. He gets obsessed with figuring out how it works, so when it breaks he learns how to fix it, even if it's technology is based on unobtanium phantom widgets. Conversely, the supermodel shape shifter whose costume allows her to change her shape and clothing style at will, considers the clothes and extension of herself and they heal when she does.

 

It's more fun and dramatic when powers and their limits and such are manifestations of inner conflict and emotional need than when they are subject to some (dare I say it) one size-fits-all external flowchart.

 

This isn't to say there shouldn't be rules, but they are more like the rules of a fae or demon bargain, subject to logic twisting and word play. Conditions like "There is no price, only a cost. You must seek justice, someth9ng that can only be bought with fear, pain, and blood." or "You must make things right" can be used to justify just about any action, but still provide an effective psychological goad. Likewise conditions like, "Once you begin, there can be no turning back," or "You will gain great power, but face even greater obstacles," can add an intangible weight to the decision.

[Basil]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

The whole "villains must pay money" bit cuts out a large number of comic-book-standard villain motivations, and not just the World Conqueror types.

 

There are plenty of destructive, depraved, violent, and flat-out whacko villains. Not all are rich or interested in becoming rich.

 

It just doesn't feel right to me.

 

The infamous Dr. Infamous and The Mallard refuse to discuss if there really is an "Icons."

The Bacandforthtrian is of two minds about the idea. The alpacapla both agrees and disagrees with the Bacandforthtrian.

 

The llamalls are listening to Aomoxomoa, and I don't know what the supersonic telepathic mutant penguins with lazer eyes are up to. Perhaps trying to find Icons.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

This reminds me of The Collectors in the Sci Fi channel mini-series The Lost Room. Which is what the original premise reminded me of. Add that to the Greatest American Hero element that Steve already mentioned and this is a game I'd kill to play. Villain for me' date=' thanks. [/quote']

 

I suppose the Iconoclasts could be considered a form of anti-Collectors when compared to the group in The Lost Room. The Iconoclasts that Lucius suggested in his story make for a great Watched/Hunted for the Icons, some of them fearing what Icons represent, and others not liking the changes that the mere existence of Icons will bring to the world. Part of their effectiveness would be that they would be formed as a network of individuals and small groups, rather than a single over-arching organization. This is the sort of idea I was hoping to find when I posted the initial rought write-up of the campaign.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the Tailor didn't make you choose Hero or Villain? With the power in these suits, the Tailors and/or his backers have no need for money, so why would they require a tithe from Villains? And what good would having people out saving lives do? The suits represent power. Power may be used for "good" or "evil" depending on who wields it and (more importantly, perhaps), who writes the history books. Maybe the only requirement is that these suits, and their powers, get used.

 

What happens when a bunch of people show up with powers? Whether the powers are used to stop a bus full of blind nuns from falling off a bridge, or used to shrink a city and hold it for ransom, attention will be paid. Articles will be written, factions will form, people will talk, and attention will be directed towards these people and the suits they wear. In many stories, gods run on the attention and prayers of their worshippers. And those prayers must be getting mighty scarce in the modern day. What if that is the impetus of these suits? To act as avatars and drum up attention and "prayers" After all, "Aaah, Uberman! Save us!" coming from people in dire trouble sounds pretty much like a prayer to me. And the villain shrinking a city and holding it for ransom would sure encourage the people in that city to pray for his nemesis to come save them.

 

What do folks think?

 

I think you raise some good points. In my initial write-up, I was trying to think of some sort of transaction that would lead customers of Icons to use their costumes towards some purpose.

 

In my original notes, I was thinking that the first Icons released into the world would represent a kind of Golden Age/Silver Age. The first supervillains would be the kind who would rob banks or steal money with their powers instead of being world-conquerors, and the first superheroes would be those who were more 'four-color' in their internal motives. Later Icons could have different motives and the Tailor could change his "sales approach" when the idea of superpowered people is more established in the world.

 

Everything that people write or suggest is being considered in my revisions of the campaign write-up, so keep those ideas and speculations coming.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Heh. I think that the most mysterious and enigmatic route to go would be if there was really only one shop that had a door that opened wherever it was needed. It's not a place people can get back to, not on purpose. Not by going to a place. The only real way to get back would be by going to the right state of mind with the right kind of need.

 

Details like getting a suit altered or repaired could be handled on a story by story, personality by personality basis. Let''s say iron-guy gets a suit of icon-tech armor. He gets obsessed with figuring out how it works, so when it breaks he learns how to fix it, even if it's technology is based on unobtanium phantom widgets. Conversely, the supermodel shape shifter whose costume allows her to change her shape and clothing style at will, considers the clothes and extension of herself and they heal when she does.

 

It's more fun and dramatic when powers and their limits and such are manifestations of inner conflict and emotional need than when they are subject to some (dare I say it) one size-fits-all external flowchart.

 

This isn't to say there shouldn't be rules, but they are more like the rules of a fae or demon bargain, subject to logic twisting and word play. Conditions like "There is no price, only a cost. You must seek justice, someth9ng that can only be bought with fear, pain, and blood." or "You must make things right" can be used to justify just about any action, but still provide an effective psychological goad. Likewise conditions like, "Once you begin, there can be no turning back," or "You will gain great power, but face even greater obstacles," can add an intangible weight to the decision.

 

The dimensional doors leading to a single Icons is an interesting idea. Having a strong inner desire allowing access to Icons harkens to the Hero's Journey. At the beginning is the call to adventure, and Icons represents that. Desire or need opens the door, and the rest of the path is decided by the character. How much Icon Tech affects the world will initially be held by a few, the Icons themselves.

 

To be an Icon is much like making a fae bargain, and I like the word play idea. There are internal rules, but my initial set of premises of what they would be were overly simplistic. I like the additions that people have suggested for making the campaign richer and deeper.

 

How the world reacts to these superpowered individuals will require some thought, and I'm working out how that will play out. Since there are no groups like UNTIL or PRIMUS around, the question becomes how the authorities will react. My end goal is a somewhat Bronze-Age feel in a moder-day world.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

The whole "villains must pay money" bit cuts out a large number of comic-book-standard villain motivations, and not just the World Conqueror types.

 

There are plenty of destructive, depraved, violent, and flat-out whacko villains. Not all are rich or interested in becoming rich.

 

It just doesn't feel right to me.

 

The infamous Dr. Infamous and The Mallard refuse to discuss if there really is an "Icons."

The Bacandforthtrian is of two minds about the idea. The alpacapla both agrees and disagrees with the Bacandforthtrian.

 

The llamalls are listening to Aomoxomoa, and I don't know what the supersonic telepathic mutant penguins with lazer eyes are up to. Perhaps trying to find Icons.

 

The villain pays money idea was my rough draft. I've been very impressed with suggestion that people have made to improve upon the basic concepts I presented.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the Tailor didn't make you choose Hero or Villain? With the power in these suits, the Tailors and/or his backers have no need for money, so why would they require a tithe from Villains? And what good would having people out saving lives do? The suits represent power. Power may be used for "good" or "evil" depending on who wields it and (more importantly, perhaps), who writes the history books. Maybe the only requirement is that these suits, and their powers, get used.

 

What happens when a bunch of people show up with powers? Whether the powers are used to stop a bus full of blind nuns from falling off a bridge, or used to shrink a city and hold it for ransom, attention will be paid. Articles will be written, factions will form, people will talk, and attention will be directed towards these people and the suits they wear. In many stories, gods run on the attention and prayers of their worshippers. And those prayers must be getting mighty scarce in the modern day. What if that is the impetus of these suits? To act as avatars and drum up attention and "prayers" After all, "Aaah, Uberman! Save us!" coming from people in dire trouble sounds pretty much like a prayer to me. And the villain shrinking a city and holding it for ransom would sure encourage the people in that city to pray for his nemesis to come save them.

 

What do folks think?

 

Excellent idea. Somebody rep this guy for me, huh?

 

Perhaps the objective isn't so much to create heroes and villains as it is to see how different individuals who seek the power to "make things right" actually go about doing so once they have been given the power. Batman, for instance, had a tragedy in his past which drove him to protect others from suffering as he has. Others choose to use their powers to gain wealth, some sort of elevated status, the admiration or "respect" (fear) of others, etc. What happens when a certain number of "loose cannons" are set upon the world, each with their own agenda? Is the net result a better, if somewhat more chaotic world or does the world descend into despotism as those with the might to do so sieze power?

 

It could be that Icons is an agency of some foreign power (extraterrestrial or maybe extradimensional) whose purpose is to sow chaos to weaken the Earth's defenses against invasion. Conversely, it could be preparing Earth to defend itself by creating beings who have the ability to counter the advanced technology of an invader. It could be some cosmic experiment by advanced beings for reasons we can't fathom, and everyone, not just the "suits", is a labrat for this experiment.

 

I'd recommend leaking hints that support several of these theories, but keeping Icons' motivation a mystery as much as possible.

[Steve]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Well, thanks to the help of others posting in this thread, the 'mythology' of Icons Earth has already begun to expand from my initial rough draft write-up. I just wanted to say thanks to all who have commented.

 

Icons, those with superpowers, both heroes and villains, will be forces for change in the world. The end results of those changes has been touched on by the speculations of other posters.

 

As a new question topic, do you think I should limit Icons to adults? What about teen Icons? Sidekicks?

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

What if the Tailor didn't make you choose Hero or Villain? With the power in these suits, the Tailors and/or his backers have no need for money, so why would they require a tithe from Villains? And what good would having people out saving lives do? The suits represent power. Power may be used for "good" or "evil" depending on who wields it and (more importantly, perhaps), who writes the history books. Maybe the only requirement is that these suits, and their powers, get used.

 

What happens when a bunch of people show up with powers? Whether the powers are used to stop a bus full of blind nuns from falling off a bridge, or used to shrink a city and hold it for ransom, attention will be paid. Articles will be written, factions will form, people will talk, and attention will be directed towards these people and the suits they wear. In many stories, gods run on the attention and prayers of their worshippers. And those prayers must be getting mighty scarce in the modern day. What if that is the impetus of these suits? To act as avatars and drum up attention and "prayers" After all, "Aaah, Uberman! Save us!" coming from people in dire trouble sounds pretty much like a prayer to me. And the villain shrinking a city and holding it for ransom would sure encourage the people in that city to pray for his nemesis to come save them.

 

What do folks think?

So the Tailor is really just an alien Anthropologist, running an experiment on this planet of (semi-)intelligent primates?

[matrix3]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

Well, thanks to the help of others posting in this thread, the 'mythology' of Icons Earth has already begun to expand from my initial rough draft write-up. I just wanted to say thanks to all who have commented.

 

Icons, those with superpowers, both heroes and villains, will be forces for change in the world. The end results of those changes has been touched on by the speculations of other posters.

 

As a new question topic, do you think I should limit Icons to adults? What about teen Icons? Sidekicks?

 

I think that would depend on how you envision someone triggering a trip to see the Tailor. It is hard to imagine anyone wishing for something with the pure single minded intensity of a child, just look at any child in the run up to Christmas. But, there is usually a lack of depth to that wish. Someone seeing his parents die in front of him could trigger something like that at a young age, but otherwise I suspect it would take some experience and some maturity to desire something enough to manifest the door to let a person visit the Tailor. There might also be something to be said for being able to enter into a metaphysical contract. Even the Devil, if I recall correctly, couldn't get a child to sell away his soul...

 

.

[matrix3]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

So the Tailor is really just an alien Anthropologist' date=' running an experiment on this planet of (semi-)intelligent primates?[/quote']

 

That could be an interesting take, too. This is just an experiment, like rats in a maze, with the suits acting like the treat of cheese at the end. What if one day the experiment is done, and the suits all just stop?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

That could be an interesting take' date=' too. This is just an experiment, like rats in a maze, with the suits acting like the treat of cheese at the end. What if one day the experiment is done, and the suits all just stop?[/quote']

No silly! The rats are the ones running the experiment. Didn't you pay attention to Adams?

[Chimera 12]

Re: Icons - The Costume and Superpowers Store

 

No silly! The rats are the ones running the experiment. Didn't you pay attention to Adams?

 

So the Tailor is really just an intelligent lab rat in a 'man suit'?

 

Hmmm...yes, it all makes sense now.