New Gamers

[Lucius]

New Gamers

 

I had occasion in a recent thread to say that I think Hero Games is assuming that the Hero System would never – or almost never – be picked up by someone totally new to role playing.

 

I pointed out the fact that while there is a brief section in the new edition titled “If You're New to the Hero System” but there is nothing like “If You're New to Role Playing” nor any such things as, say, a definition of what Role Playing IS. I had occasion to notice the lack in the previous edition too.

 

I can remember when it was pretty much obligatory for every role playing rule book to have such a section in front, something explaining to the uninitiated what it's all about. I got curious, and got a friend to lend me her D&D books.

 

Sure enough, 4th Edition Player's Handbook has a whole page devoted to the section titled “A Roleplaying Game.” Only a quarter of that is an illustration. I have seen more concise and satisfactory definitions, but I think it gets the idea across; a storytelling game, the action takes place in your imagination, etc. There's even about half a page on the facing page on the history of D&D.

 

Then there's about three pages divided between “What's In a D&D Game?” and “How Do You Play?” Part of the answer to “What's In?” is “Player Characters” and it says “When you play your D&D character, you put yourself into your character's shoes and make decisions as if you were that character. You decide which door your character opens next. You decide whether to attack a monster, to negotiate with a villain, or to attempt a dangerous quest. You can make these decisions based on your character's personality, motivations, and goals...” The Dungeon Master's role is broken out into “Adventure Builder” “Narrator” “Monster Controller” and “Referee.” It mentions that adventures can run from a simple series of encounters with little story to them, to complex interconnected plots, and doesn't seem to pass judgment on either extreme. “How Do You Play?” reinforces the nature of the Player Character's relationship to the Player, emphasizes exploration of the game world, and concludes with an Example of Play.

 

It's obvious that the Wizards of the Coast expects that some people will pick up D&D without any previous experience in role playing. And I wonder why it is that Hero Games seems to assume the opposite – that anyone interested in Hero System must already be an experienced gamer.

 

So the questions I wanted to ask and discuss are:

 

Why do you suppose it is that Hero Games would make such an assumption?

 

Is Hero really so complicated or difficult that it might as well have a warning label “For experienced gamers only!”?

 

Do you think Hero Games should make an effort to be inclusive of people who are new to roleplaying?

If so, how would we go about convincing the Powers that Be of that, and what could we suggest they do (either for the eventual 7th edition, or in the meantime?)

 

Conversely, do you think that Hero Games should be content to let other game systems (primarily D&D I suppose) bring people into the hobby, and grow only by drawing away people who have already started role playing with another system? If so, can you explain to me why you think that?

 

How would YOU define basic terms like “role playing game” and “player character” and how would you describe the roles and responsibilities of the players – including the player who runs the game?

 

For those of us who think it's okay for people to start out with Hero as their first experience with roleplaying, what if anything can we as individuals do to encourage that?

 

And as we go along, I'll probably have a lot more questions.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

This palindromedary is for experienced riders only

[JmOz]

Re: New Gamers

 

I think it is an issue of market share, DD4 is available at your local book store, if you are buying HERO you are in a gaming store or online. If you are online you went looking for it, if you were in a gaminig store you have some knowledge of the basics or someone there can explain it to you. Of course this is only my thoughts on it

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: New Gamers

 

I'm going to voice a take on this that I assume will probably not be shared by anyone else, but c'est la vie...

 

I would say that other games, that do include a "What is a role-playing game?" type of section, are wasting page count.

 

I think that at this point, the percentage of new pen-and-paper RPG players who start in the hobby by picking up an RPG book and reading it, is so close to zero as to be insignificant. I think virtually all new p&p RPGers get into the hobby by first gaming with existing p&p RPGers. So to me, the section describing what an RPG is serves almost no purpose. Because virtually everyone who might read it already knows what an RPG is.

 

Having said that, do I think that the HERO System is inherently ill-suited to being someone's first RPG? Not at all. And I don't really think Hero Games thinks that either (hence products like the HERO System Basic Rulebook).

[Greywind]

Re: New Gamers

 

I think it is an issue of market share' date=' DD4 is available at your local book store, if you are buying HERO you are in a gaming store, comic shop, or online. If you are online you went looking for it, if you were in a gaminig store you have some knowledge of the basics or someone there can explain it to you. Of course this is only my thoughts on it

Fixed that for ya...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New Gamers

 

Well...now that you mention it, I've never met anyone whose first RPG was the HERO System (in its Universal incarnations). I'd be willing to hazard that even if there are such people, they were intro'd to the game by an established group.

 

The HERO System just isn't the sort of game a cherry neophyte with 0 experience or knowledge walks into a game store for the first time off the street, buys, and takes home to master and eventually run / play.

 

 

Though I suppose 1 more page wouldn't exactly be noticed in a book the size of the last couple editions of the HERO System, it certainly seems unlikely to ever be needed by a would-be HERO newb.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New Gamers

 

Having said that' date=' do I think that the HERO System is inherently ill-suited to being someone's first RPG? Not at all. And I don't really think Hero Games thinks that either (hence products like the HERO System Basic Rulebook). [/quote']

 

I think that the basic rulebook is not designed for an RPG newbie but a HERO newbie. As far as I am aware it does not explain what an RPG is nor how to set-up your game.

 

I would say that the Basic Rulebook is for a HERO GM to give to a new player, not for a person new to roleplaying to pick up and run a game for new players. I do no think it would take much - HERO has a few basic concepts to understand and then everything else is choice. If you have the concepts explained and are guided through some of the choices then everything else follows.

 

I am not sure that the system is picked up by many new gamers and not sure that anyone believes that this is a productive route to follow.

 

What I might suggest is a gateway product between Champions Online and the pen and paper game. Something akin to the Basic Rulebook that would allow those online players to play the real game. That would very much rely on explaining the difference between online roleplaying and pen and paper roleplaying and explain how to set up a Champions Online game with your friends. This would be a game where all of the decisions were made for you about your game but where they were explicitly explained as to what they were and why they were made.

 

I think it would be more lucrative aiming at transforming online gamers to real ones rather than getting them to jump from no gaming to HERO.

 

 

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Gamers

 

New Gamers

 

I had occasion in a recent thread to say that I think Hero Games is assuming that the Hero System would never – or almost never – be picked up by someone totally new to role playing.

 

I pointed out the fact that while there is a brief section in the new edition titled “If You're New to the Hero System” but there is nothing like “If You're New to Role Playing” nor any such things as, say, a definition of what Role Playing IS. I had occasion to notice the lack in the previous edition too.

 

I can remember when it was pretty much obligatory for every role playing rule book to have such a section in front, something explaining to the uninitiated what it's all about. I got curious, and got a friend to lend me her D&D books.

 

Sure enough, 4th Edition Player's Handbook has a whole page devoted to the section titled “A Roleplaying Game.” Only a quarter of that is an illustration. I have seen more concise and satisfactory definitions, but I think it gets the idea across; a storytelling game, the action takes place in your imagination, etc. There's even about half a page on the facing page on the history of D&D.

 

Then there's about three pages divided between “What's In a D&D Game?” and “How Do You Play?” Part of the answer to “What's In?” is “Player Characters” and it says “When you play your D&D character, you put yourself into your character's shoes and make decisions as if you were that character. You decide which door your character opens next. You decide whether to attack a monster, to negotiate with a villain, or to attempt a dangerous quest. You can make these decisions based on your character's personality, motivations, and goals...” The Dungeon Master's role is broken out into “Adventure Builder” “Narrator” “Monster Controller” and “Referee.” It mentions that adventures can run from a simple series of encounters with little story to them, to complex interconnected plots, and doesn't seem to pass judgment on either extreme. “How Do You Play?” reinforces the nature of the Player Character's relationship to the Player, emphasizes exploration of the game world, and concludes with an Example of Play.

 

It's obvious that the Wizards of the Coast expects that some people will pick up D&D without any previous experience in role playing. And I wonder why it is that Hero Games seems to assume the opposite – that anyone interested in Hero System must already be an experienced gamer.

 

So the questions I wanted to ask and discuss are:

 

Why do you suppose it is that Hero Games would make such an assumption?

 

The fact that Hero, unlike D&D, is not so well known in general culture that it gets media references seems to support this assumption. Unlike some few other games, Hero is not marketed through mass market bookstores or similar outlets. It is marketed in specialty stores, or you look for it online. The percentage of people in a mass market book store who need the concept of a role playing game explained to them is a lot higher than the percentage in a game store, or searching for one online. The percentage of retail outlets you can find Hero in that you can also ask "hey, what's this role playing game thing all about" and get a solid answer is also way higher than the percentage of retail outlets stocking D&D books where you will get a useful answer.

 

I think this assumption is very supported.

 

Is Hero really so complicated or difficult that it might as well have a warning label “For experienced gamers only!”?

 

No. I don't think someone picking up those two big volumes will have any more difficulty learning from scratch than someone picking up the three starting books to play AD&D. These games are complicated in general. Hero is no exception.

 

Do you think Hero Games should make an effort to be inclusive of people who are new to roleplaying?

 

I think the gaming industry should make an effort to be inclusive of people who are new to roleplaying. That's noty done by tossing in page count useless to most of your buyers. It's done by getting explanations of role playing in general out to the masses who don't know what it is. An information sheet or brochure on "What are role playing games?" that could be placed in game stores and mass market retail outlets as a no cost informational publication would work well. This could also appear online on various gaming companies' web sites. Now Mom, shopping for Little Timmy's birthday, can stop at that store he mentioned to her, pick up this flyer and figure out whether this is something she wants to buy for her little angel. That fellow who just popped in because the poster of the latest big movie in the window attracted him might be interested enough to try out this new hobby. Adding new role players means getting something into their hands - that's not going to be 3 pages in a $40 book!

 

If so' date=' how would we go about convincing the Powers that Be of that, and what could we suggest they do (either for the eventual 7th edition, or in the meantime?)[/quote']

 

It's only going to happen if the gaming industry gets organized, and can focus on growing the whole pie instead of maximizing their slice of it. It won't happen until the industry realizes that 2% of a 50 million gamer market is better than 30% of a 2 million gamer market.

 

Conversely' date=' do you think that Hero Games should be content to let other game systems (primarily D&D I suppose) bring people into the hobby, and grow only by drawing away people who have already started role playing with another system? If so, can you explain to me why you think that?[/quote']

 

I don't think Hero alone has the resources to significantly grow the market. Until and unless the gaming industry in general gets organized, I don't believe Hero has another viable approach.

 

How would YOU define basic terms like “role playing game” and “player character” and how would you describe the roles and responsibilities of the players – including the player who runs the game?

 

I think, if you read the intros in the various D&D editions and various older and newer games that have intro'd the terms, you will find they have much more in common than they differ. Really, the concepts aren't that difficult.

 

For those of us who think it's okay for people to start out with Hero as their first experience with roleplaying' date=' what if anything can we as individuals do to encourage that?[/quote']

 

Just off the top here:

 

You could write that info sheet summarizing "what is a role playing game" and ask various retail outlets if they'd be interested in giving this away to possibly interested parties. I doubt mass market will bite. Specialty stores very welll might.

 

Most of us game well away from the public. Can you game at your local game store so people might be curious about what is engrossing these people? Will you include those interested in your game?

 

Just a sign in the FLGS inviting new players to your game, especially if it makes a conscious effort to invite those new to role playing (I see a lot of these that are not so inviting) might get some interest.

 

Running demo games at your FLGS, or at a club or youth organization, fills a similar niche of introducing people to the hobby.

 

Many of us who complain about the lack of new blood forget that the best marketting is word of mouth. If we don't make an effort to game with new people, and especially if we actively turn such people away, no surprise the hobby won't grow. Every time we put down an interested new player because he makes a mistake or doesn't understand a rule, we reduce our own hobby's market, and its future.

[Cancer]

Re: New Gamers

 

Well, this is really about how to grow the tabletop game industry.

 

I don't know how many new RPG players get started in a vacuum, that is, picked one up having never experienced one run by another RPG player. I expect that number is vanishingly small; it wasn't true for me, and I started RPGs in 1975.

 

If there are such people, then the "what's an RPG" section is not wasted on them. In fact, even for me (playing RPGs for 35 years this June), that section is not wasted in the D&D4 books. It provides a "mission statement" about what the game is supposed to be, in the most general terms. If I buy it, then I know the goals of the system designers are in accord with mine in terms of game experience. If not, it provides clues to what I need to do in the system to turn it into a game I want to play on an extended basis.

 

Before the advent of MMOG's, I would have said the following. If you posit that there is an untapped market for RPG sales, I suspect that the way into that market is through the genre. Superhero comics fans --> Champions. Sword & sorcery fans --> D&D. Sci-fi fans --> ... well, not sure now; at one time I would've said Traveller. I don't know how many new gamers got into the phenomenon as (e.g.) Buffy fans or Firefly fans picking up that game system; it'd be an interesting piece of market research to do. I know there's a famous ... essay? diatribe? ... somewhere that a number of people started D&D (or other fantasy-genre systems) looking for a way to play "Tabletop Diablo", referring to that monumentally successful PC game.

 

My guess now is that MMOG's are vastly larger in their customer base than pen-and-pencil games of all sorts. I could be wrong about that, but I sure have that impression. (FWIW, I am not a player of MMOG's.) That suggests that MMOG's might be an entry channel into pen-and-paper games. There could well be a genre coupling there, but I haven't done enough thinking about it to guess.

[Fearghus]

Re: New Gamers

 

I have always thought of HERO as the grown up gamers game. That's not to say that other games are kiddy games, but HERO is more advanced that most RPGs out there in that you can modle just about ANYTHING. Because the system isn't class/level based and doesn't play like a video game where half the decisions about your character are made for you it requires a great deal of effort to think up and create a character. while it is true that a character in any genre will tend to fit into one of maybe a dozen archetypes even in the HERO system... the player still has to work out ever detail of his/her character. For new players (even for experienced gamers) this can be daunting.

 

So to answer your question. I think that whole "what role playing is" section is left out of the book for the exact reason you stated. Hero is not for newbs.

[gojira]

Re: New Gamers

 

Well' date=' this is really about how to grow the tabletop game industry.[/quote']

 

 

I think it's more about how to grow Hero Games' share of the industry.

 

The current rules seem to discourage new gamers from picking them up (pun not intended). There are a lot of casual RPGers out there, and an 800 page plus rule set isn't going to be their cup of tea, or even something they might reasonably grow into. The Basic Rule Book might be a substitute, although I haven't tested that. (And of course I haven't conducted some large survey of gamers, either, about how the feel about the 800+ page rule set. I've just heard some anecdotal stories that tend in that direction.)

 

Why did Hero Games choose to go with such a large pair of tomes? I'm sure they have their reasons. I don't think I could understand, but it's also not my paycheck either. I have to assume that Steve, Darren and company all believe firmly that the direction they went is the right one. They're fully committed to this venture, I'm just kibitzing from the sidelines.

 

But yes, I think in general a "newbie friendly" style to the rules and other books could help (possibly immensely) and that a "What is Role Playing?" section would be part of such an adjustment. I wouldn't regard it as a waste of paper, certainly. One page would be fine, more might be a little too verbose.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Lucius]

Re: New Gamers

 

I don't know how many new RPG players get started in a vacuum, that is, picked one up having never experienced one run by another RPG player. I expect that number is vanishingly small; it wasn't true for me, and I started RPGs in 1975.

 

Whereas it WAS true for me. That probably makes my perspective different.

 

If I could do it "in a vacuum" at the age of 12, I'm sure that a great many other people are capable of it. I'm not vain enough to think I'm that much of a prodigy.

 

I also think that a concise and easily understood introduction can be helpful even if, for example, an established group can point to it for a potential gamer's benefit and say "Here, this tells you basically What It's All About."

 

I think that the basic rulebook is not designed for an RPG newbie but a HERO newbie. As far as I am aware it does not explain what an RPG is nor how to set-up your game.

 

I have the Basic Rulebook in PDF, and it seems as innocent as the main rules of any consideration of the possibility of being read by someone who is not already an experienced role playing gamer.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

That was in the PP era - Pre Palindromedary

[Lord Liaden]

Re: New Gamers

 

I think it's more about how to grow Hero Games' share of the industry.

 

The current rules seem to discourage new gamers from picking them up (pun not intended). There are a lot of casual RPGers out there, and an 800 page plus rule set isn't going to be their cup of tea, or even something they might reasonably grow into. The Basic Rule Book might be a substitute, although I haven't tested that. (And of course I haven't conducted some large survey of gamers, either, about how the feel about the 800+ page rule set. I've just heard some anecdotal stories that tend in that direction.)

 

Why did Hero Games choose to go with such a large pair of tomes? I'm sure they have their reasons. I don't think I could understand, but it's also not my paycheck either. I have to assume that Steve, Darren and company all believe firmly that the direction they went is the right one. They're fully committed to this venture, I'm just kibitzing from the sidelines.

 

But yes, I think in general a "newbie friendly" style to the rules and other books could help (possibly immensely) and that a "What is Role Playing?" section would be part of such an adjustment. I wouldn't regard it as a waste of paper, certainly. One page would be fine, more might be a little too verbose.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Hmm... I thought the idea of dividing the rules into two books is that the first volume would be picked up by players wanting all the rules players typically need. In most cases only the GM would be interested in the rules in volume two. So the "casual player" (assuming he/she didn't go for the much smaller Basic Rulebook) would only have to deal with half the rules. Much like how D&D packages their rulebooks (which are also pretty hefty when taken collectively).

[Tasha]

Re: New Gamers

 

I think that those "what is a Roleplaying game" sections have always been a waste of time and space. People who buy these games know what a RPG is. I always thought that those sections were a bit insulting to my intelligence.

 

I am glad that Hero has killed these in their rule books.

 

I don't think that the game needs any warning label at all. I think that once you get beyond character generation, the system is actually pretty simple. That compared to modern RP systems even Character Gen isn't that bad.

 

I don't think that missing a little bit of stinky fluff make the rule books less accessible to players. It think that the first chapter of 6e1 does a great job of introducing players to the Hero system.

 

If you want to bring new players into the system, just work with them and help them make the character they want. Show them how working from plain english becomes game abilities (ie reasoning from Effect). Don't discourage them in any way. Help them play and with what dice to roll and why. Don't play their characters for them, but guide them and keep it fun and engaging for the noob. I don't hide points at all and am not shy about explaining what the points mean.

 

I don't see that anything needs to change. It looks just fine.

 

Tasha

[Tasha]

Re: New Gamers

 

I think it's more about how to grow Hero Games' share of the industry.

 

The current rules seem to discourage new gamers from picking them up (pun not intended). There are a lot of casual RPGers out there, and an 800 page plus rule set isn't going to be their cup of tea, or even something they might reasonably grow into. The Basic Rule Book might be a substitute, although I haven't tested that. (And of course I haven't conducted some large survey of gamers, either, about how the feel about the 800+ page rule set. I've just heard some anecdotal stories that tend in that direction.)

 

Why did Hero Games choose to go with such a large pair of tomes? I'm sure they have their reasons. I don't think I could understand, but it's also not my paycheck either. I have to assume that Steve, Darren and company all believe firmly that the direction they went is the right one. They're fully committed to this venture, I'm just kibitzing from the sidelines.

 

But yes, I think in general a "newbie friendly" style to the rules and other books could help (possibly immensely) and that a "What is Role Playing?" section would be part of such an adjustment. I wouldn't regard it as a waste of paper, certainly. One page would be fine, more might be a little too verbose.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I think having the colorful book full of full color artwork that is printed on good heavy paper is actually a draw. When you open the books you see the art and it grabs you. I think that having that artwork and a font that is readable is worth having another tome for the rules. Hell most of the D&Ders are used to buying 3+ books (PH, DMG and MM + Splat books for extra stuff on the classes) So Hero isn't really more expensive than D&D. Also if you want the electronic Character gen you have to pay monthly, unlike Hero Designer which you buy a multi year contract for (which has a VERY reasonable price compared to D&D). Hasbro seems to be about nickel and diming their fanbase to death. Hero's stuff is much more self contained and you don't end up having to buy 10 books for the core campaign world.

 

Like I said before those "What is Role Playing" sections are all junk. They never did anything to help me learn to play any game that I saw them in. All they did was waste space that could be better spent with more content. I really doubt that anyone new will even miss that section. They will be taken with the first 2 chapters (of 6e1) that explains the game better than any cruddy What is RP section ever did.

[Lucius]

Re: New Gamers

 

People who buy these games know what a RPG is.

 

I didn't the first time.

 

Apparently that puts me in a much smaller minority than I realized.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Rare as a palindromedary?

[Escafarc]

Re: New Gamers

 

I think having the colorful book full of full color artwork that is printed on good heavy paper is actually a draw. When you open the books you see the art and it grabs you. I think that having that artwork and a font that is readable is worth having another tome for the rules. Hell most of the D&Ders are used to buying 3+ books (PH, DMG and MM + Splat books for extra stuff on the classes) So Hero isn't really more expensive than D&D. Also if you want the electronic Character gen you have to pay monthly, unlike Hero Designer which you buy a multi year contract for (which has a VERY reasonable price compared to D&D). Hasbro seems to be about nickel and diming their fanbase to death. Hero's stuff is much more self contained and you don't end up having to buy 10 books for the core campaign world.

 

Like I said before those "What is Role Playing" sections are all junk. They never did anything to help me learn to play any game that I saw them in. All they did was waste space that could be better spent with more content. I really doubt that anyone new will even miss that section. They will be taken with the first 2 chapters (of 6e1) that explains the game better than any cruddy What is RP section ever did.

 

If I have one tiny, tiny nitpick with 6E is the paper. It has this shiny glare that for some reason bothers me. It reminds me of when comics back in the '80s when they tried printing comics on Baxter paper for a short while.

[Escafarc]

Re: New Gamers

 

I didn't the first time.

 

Apparently that puts me in a much smaller minority than I realized.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Rare as a palindromedary?

 

You're not alone. Back in the '70s when the D&D small book box set first came out. My friends and I picked it up without any real idea what it was and and for the most part we figured most of it out. Back then The Dragon was the '70 and '80s version of Herogames.com.

[Karmakaze]

Re: New Gamers

 

Having said that' date=' do I think that the HERO System is inherently ill-suited to being someone's first RPG? Not at all. And I don't really think Hero Games thinks that either (hence products like the HERO System Basic Rulebook). [/quote']

 

Well...now that you mention it' date=' I've never met anyone whose first RPG was the HERO System (in its Universal incarnations). I'd be willing to hazard that even if there are such people, they were intro'd to the game by an established group.[/quote']

 

Does 4th Edition Champions count? Because that was my first RPG. (I knew about RPGs before then, but I didn't know any of the D&D players in my high school, and my other gamer friends were too far away for me to join their groups. Before college, I did what were known as "BBS Storyboards".) I did have someone walk me through character creation, so there was a semi-established group, I guess. The GM wasn't actually very good, which rapidly lead me to decide that I could do better, and I started running games a few months later.

 

Weirdly, I played Champions, Call of Cthulhu, Ars Magica and Teenagers From Outer Space before I ever played an actual game of D&D (that would have been in the era of AD&D2). It's put me in a weird position as a gamer, because I just don't get D&D. It's the one game system I really struggle with.

[gojira]

Re: New Gamers

 

...most of the D&Ders are used to buying 3+ books (PH' date=' DMG and MM + Splat books for extra stuff on the classes) So Hero isn't really more expensive than D&D. Also if you want the electronic Character gen you have to pay monthly, unlike Hero Designer which you buy a multi year contract for (which has a VERY reasonable price compared to D&D). Hasbro seems to be about nickel and diming their fanbase to death. Hero's stuff is much more self contained and you don't end up having to buy 10 books for the core campaign world.[/quote']

 

 

I don't know about DnD splat books so I can't comment. The DnD rule books themselves though are smaller than their Hero equivalents (I've thumbed through them at the bookstore, the page counts are around 200-250 iirc). That makes Hero seem a bit less friendly. Also, a previous conversation on these boards ended with the conclusion that a new player needs both Hero books. Volume 1 is not enough. So a new player really does need to buy more: two books instead of one. This ignores Hero's need for genre books, which tend to be generic and a bit bland, and then a campaign/world book. Genre books and world books are Hero's equivalent of splat books.

 

What I haven't done is try to introduce any new players to Hero, so I haven't tested the above ideas of mine. It could be they're unfounded. However, I do notice a lot of other folks echoing the same opinions. While those people also may be incorrect, it's the perception that there's a problem that hurts. GMs don't want to pick it up because the rules are too copious. They don't want to have to take responsibility for teaching players, making characters for them, etc. The rule books themselves don't "help" the GM do that enough.

 

Again, this may not really be a problem, but the perception that there is a problem does exist. Whether that's an issue or not only Hero Games can say. How are sales? How is growth? Long term prospects? Feedback from retailers and players? I dunno. As a current player though, I'm saying I'd be more than willing to see a rule set aimed at new players, rather than the current "committed Hero gamer" that the rules seem to be aimed at. It's the "on the fence" crowd that Hero Games should be looking at winning over, and I'd support Hero Games (with dollars) if they went in that direction.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: New Gamers

 

Well, the Basic Rulebook is explicitly described as letting you "easily teach yourself the game" and "bring new players into your campaign quickly," and it's based on 5E HERO System Sidekick which was designed and playtested to do just that. So bringing in new players has to be part of Hero Games's strategy.

 

The promotional copy for the HSBR also claims, "when you’re ready to move up to the complete HERO System, learning it will be a snap because the Basic Rulebook’s already taught you the basics!" That implies that HSBR is considered the "gateway" to the system for newbies, and the full ruleset is for those players who are prepared to commit more time and energy to the game.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: New Gamers

 

I'll readily grant that if a "What is an RPG?" section was necessary for any Hero book, it would be the HERO System Basic Rulebook. Having said that...

 

I note that my vehicle owner's manual doesn't have a section labelled "What is a car?" and I never found that unusual...

[Cancer]

Re: New Gamers

 

Well, strictly speaking, you need a license to operate a car, and usually that requires passing written and driving tests, so it's a rare --borderline illegal (you could own one but you couldn't drive it on public roads) -- thing that someone purchasing a car wouldn't know about cars. Ideally, that's not quite true of RPGs.

[Lucius]

Re: New Gamers

 

So bringing in new players has to be part of Hero Games's strategy.

 

If by "new player" you mean "someone already playing some other role playing game but unfamiliar with Hero" then, yes.

 

If "new player" means "somone with no previous experience with role playing games" then, no.

 

I'll readily grant that if a "What is an RPG?" section was necessary for any Hero book, it would be the HERO System Basic Rulebook. Having said that...

 

I note that my vehicle owner's manual doesn't have a section labelled "What is a car?" and I never found that unusual...

 

I seem to remember that my Driver's Education included an introduction to the basic concepts of an internal combustion engine. Besides, your owner's manual can reasonably assume that anyone buying a car has a driver's license - you don't need to pass any test to buy SHREd.

 

And even an Amish child has seen automobiles.

 

If role playing games were as ubiquitous as board games like checkers, monopoly, and parcheesi, you'd have a point. If they have become so common that you can find them being played in the average household, I've failed to notice.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

An uncommon palindromedary

[Vondy]

Re: New Gamers

 

Having said that' date=' do I think that the HERO System is inherently ill-suited to being someone's first RPG? Not at all.[/quote']

 

How long have you been playing Hero?

 

And how many new hobbyists do you know who started gaming cold with 5th or 6th edition without a mentor?

 

Not experienced gamers who migrated, but fresh gaming meat.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: New Gamers

 

How long have you been playing Hero?

23 years.

And how many new hobbyists do you know who started gaming cold with 5th or 6th edition without a mentor?

The same as the number of new hobbyists who started gaming cold with, say, D&D 3rd or 4th edition. Exactly zero. That's my point. Lucius aside, almost no one starts playing RPGs all by themselves. They virtually always start by being "mentored" by existing players. And I've known several whose first RPG was Hero, including some where I've been the "mentor."