Common 6E House Rules

[Chimera 12]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

A Haymaker AND any attack with Extra Time: Extra Segment. I've never been overly fond of that rule myself' date=' but still use it mostly intact. In my version, the target doesn't simply have to move 1 hex/meter/whatever; they have to move out of range of (or behind cover from) the attack, or move in some other manner that significantly changes the circumstances of the attack. For some in between cases (e.g. moving to the other side of a HTH attacker but still within weapon reach), I might add an OCV penalty but still allow the attack roll.[/quote']

*nods*

 

Yeah, that was pretty much my intent. As in, "if, by the time your attack is ready, the target you originally meant to hit with it has moved, you either have to try to hit it where it is now -- which may not be feasible if it has just happened to move to where you can't hit it anymore, or at least make your attack harder -- or choose a more convenient one, which also may not always be available".

 

Which seems to be how Extra Time: Extra Phase and longer are intended to work already, anyway, so I'd say it's only consistent.

[dmjalund]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

how about if the target moves away either:

1) you lose the extra damage and a penalty to OCV but you attack at the normal (non-haymaker) time

2) you lose more than the extra damage but you attack at the normal (non-haymaker) time

[Chimera 12]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

how about if the target moves away either:

1) you lose the extra damage and a penalty to OCV but you attack at the normal (non-haymaker) time

2) you lose more than the extra damage but you attack at the normal (non-haymaker) time

That, I think, would on the other hand be a bit too generous. After all, you could get pretty much those same benefits by simply using a Strike rather than a Haymaker in the first place; if you chose not to, well, the game doesn't support 'rewinding' very well.

 

(Which incidentally struck me only yesterday while idly musing how one would model D&D4's 'reroll' powers like Elven Accuracy via Hero, which doesn't have much support for "okay, you can ignore this outcome you don't like and try again"-type effects that I could think of off the top of my head. Maybe Extra-Dimensional Movement, through time, only to the previous phase... )

[dmjalund]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

That' date=' I think, would on the other hand be a bit [i']too[/i] generous. After all, you could get pretty much those same benefits by simply using a Strike rather than a Haymaker in the first place; if you chose not to, well, the game doesn't support 'rewinding' very well.

 

(Which incidentally struck me only yesterday while idly musing how one would model D&D4's 'reroll' powers like Elven Accuracy via Hero, which doesn't have much support for "okay, you can ignore this outcome you don't like and try again"-type effects that I could think of off the top of my head. Maybe Extra-Dimensional Movement, through time, only to the previous phase... )

what if the OCV penalty (for option 1) was -5

[Chimera 12]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

what if the OCV penalty (for option 1) was -5

 

Is this still about my house rule, or yours?

 

More seriously, the main issue isn't the precise OCV (or other) penalty. It's that the way you've worded your proposal makes it sound as though you're suggesting that a character who realizes his or her Haymaker isn't going to work out should be allowed to travel back in time -- to the "normal (non-haymaker) time" at which he or she could have decided to do something else but didn't -- and change his or her mind about performing the Haymaker in the first place. Which of course would imply rewinding everything else that has happened in the meantime,too -- including the target's decision to move, which might now turn out differently...

 

On the other hand, maybe what you're trying to suggest is just that somebody who sees his or her Haymaker is going to miss should be allowed to 'abort' to a normal Strike right then and there, possibly at a significant penalty. I suppose that could in fact be an option; but to be honest, in this situation I'd probably stick with the normal rules for aborting an action and only allow the would-be attacker to abort to defend, not to switch to another attack.

[dmjalund]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I was thinking kind of like D&D 4th Ed Attack of opportunity, but only for those who were about to hit the target with a Haymaker or a very limited version of covering someone - no time travel required

[Greywind]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Personally, I don't like it. Part of throwing a haymaker is the inherent problem of the extra time required putting the extra oomph into the attack.

[Alibear]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I generally only use haymaker when the target is grabbed anyway.

[incrdbil]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I'm contemplating reinstating my 5e house rule reducing the costs of vehicles and bases to 1 per 10, not 1 per 5.

[The Main Man]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

It's not a house rule, but I have been pondering the use of Critical Damage when a player makes their attack roll by half or greater.

 

My only concern with it, if I remember it correctly, is that it becomes a little too easy to pull off what with all of the kinds of ways there are to halve your opponent's DCV (prone, grab, entangle, high PRE attack).

 

I do see some benefits of it however:

1. It makes CV values more dynamic - it favors neither OCV nor DCV any more than the other.

2. It works hand in hand with minion combat - if minions have low CV's, it's unlikely that they will critically damage your PC's and it's very likely that your PC's will naturally take them out.

 

What do others of you think?

 

In addition to possibly implementing that optional rule, I've also been rethinking the effects of a "nat-3."

Perhaps it's basically like getting a free Haymaker? Or maybe it depends on the attack, which allows for greater campaign customization?

[Alibear]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

If someone rolls a 3 to hit in my game the do maximum damage.

[The Main Man]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

That's what I currently do too, but after reading the wording between the two, I like the idea of expanding the possibilities.

[etherio]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

...If a character has a Martial Arts maneuver that includes the Full Move element' date=' and that maneuver can be Aborted to (such as a Flying Dodge), then if they use it via Aborting, they get only the CVs associated with the maneuver... they do not get to make a full move. (I interpret the Full Move element as meaning that the maneuver can be performed in the same Phase as a Full Move, assuming the move is otherwise legal. I don't view the move as being "included" in the maneuver itself.)...[/quote']

 

When I bought the new MA book yesterday, this is the first thing I looked up. I was hoping that the Flying Dodge got nerfed, but alas, it did not. We have adopted a slightly different house rule. The FMove is permitted when aborting, but it takes place after the attack roll. The dodger does not get an automatic, full-move, non-prone 'Dive for Cover.' He gets the CV mods, the attack roll and damage are determined, and then his move (if desired) occurs.

[etherio]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

...struck me only yesterday while idly musing how one would model D&D4's 'reroll' powers like Elven Accuracy via Hero' date=' which doesn't have much support for "okay, you can ignore this outcome you don't like and try again"-type effects that I could think of off the top of my head. Maybe Extra-Dimensional Movement, through time, only to the previous phase... )[/quote']

 

One of the Luck power options in 5ed was exactly this. It appears to have been left out of the published options for 6ed, but we still use it. The option calls for rolling one's Luck dice at the beginning of each session. The 'BODY' rolled on the dice is the number of re-rolls the character can choose to make or force his opponents to make.

[Phil]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

(Which incidentally struck me only yesterday while idly musing how one would model D&D4's 'reroll' powers like Elven Accuracy via Hero

 

You wouldn't. All this does is affect the probability of hitting/missing. CSLs do that for Hero. Something like +2CSLs, 1 Recoverable charge (charge recovers if attack hits without needing these CSLs)

[Chimera 12]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

You wouldn't. All this does is affect the probability of hitting/missing. CSLs do that for Hero. Something like +2CSLs' date=' 1 Recoverable charge (charge recovers if attack hits without needing these CSLs)[/quote']

 

There is a practical difference between having to guess in advance when you might need your expendable resources and being able to delay that decision until you have more solid information. Elvish Accuracy is a case of the latter -- it lets you reroll as a free action after you've already seen the initial roll, but only once per encounter. That sort of thing isn't easy to model in Hero 6E; Heroic Action Points and some of the Luck options from the APG (including the one brought up by etherio) seem to come closest, but aren't quite as reliable as I'd like.

 

Hm...then again...

 

"Luck (to determine the number of re-rolls at the beginning of a game session as per APG p. 105), Standard Effect (automatic 1 reroll/die of Luck), Re-Rolls Apply Only To Attack Rolls (-1/2 or so, since besides not helping me much outside combat this doesn't let me re-roll damage but is still highly useful)"

 

Maybe we're starting to get somewhere after all.

[Phil]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

There is a practical difference between having to guess in advance when you might need your expendable resources and being able to delay that decision until you have more solid information.

I think you're getting hung up with the Mechanic (roll again after you've seen your roll) and the Effect (you hit more often). As I said, if you want to hit more often we already have a mechanic in Torg to allow that, and the recoverable charge simply means you can only use it once per day.

 

As an alternative, you could allow a miscellaneous advantage that allowed the CSL to be used after the roll (I'd reckon that's probably a +1/2 or +1 advantage).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

One change I would implement if it became relevant is the tripling of defence costs for automatons with the Takes no Stun power. Tripling the cost of PD, ED and resistant defenses, as well as any advantages to these, makes sense. A 12d6 attack against a non-automaton character with 42 defenses is virtually useless. A 12d6 attack against an automaton with 14 defenses is virtually useless. The cost of making that attack virtually useless should be similar.

 

Tripling the cost of Damage Reduction, Damage Negation, DCV and DMCV makes no sense. 75% damage reduction leaves 1/4 of the damage regardless of whether the character takes STUN. It takes 12 DC's of damage negation to eliminate the 12d6 EB regardless of whether the target takes STUN or not. Avoiding attacks is just as likely, and no more or less effective, for both types of characters.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I think you're getting hung up with the Mechanic (roll again after you've seen your roll) and the Effect (you hit more often). As I said, if you want to hit more often we already have a mechanic in Torg to allow that, and the recoverable charge simply means you can only use it once per day.

 

As an alternative, you could allow a miscellaneous advantage that allowed the CSL to be used after the roll (I'd reckon that's probably a +1/2 or +1 advantage).

 

Well, yes, it's entirely possible that I'm getting hung up on the mechanic.

 

Then again, if the mechanic is what I want to model in the first place, I'd say I'm just a little bit entitled.

[Phil]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Well, yes, it's entirely possible that I'm getting hung up on the mechanic.

 

Then again, if the mechanic is what I want to model in the first place, I'd say I'm just a little bit entitled.

 

Touche I'm sure in 5th Ed that one of the options on Luck was that it could be used to model a 1x day roll-again ability, in which case limited luck would do it exactly.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Tripling the cost of Damage Reduction' date=' Damage Negation, DCV and DMCV makes no sense.[/quote']

 

I'm with you on that one except on Damage Negation. DN reduces the amount of damage that will be applied in a way that is very much like extra defense, which can make it very difficult to get that single point of Body damage through (unless perhaps the automaton has ZERO normal defense on top of the DN). But I agree wholeheartedly as far as the CV and Damage Reduction go.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I'm with you on that one except on Damage Negation. DN reduces the amount of damage that will be applied in a way that is very much like extra defense' date=' which can make it very difficult to get that single point of Body damage through (unless perhaps the automaton has ZERO normal defense on top of the DN). But I agree wholeheartedly as far as the CV and Damage Reduction go.[/quote']

 

I disagree. If I spend 5 points on PD, for example, it subtracts 5 points of STUN and 5 points of BOD. That will offset most of the STUN from an average 2d6 attack (and even 1d6 can get past it). It will, on average, offset all the BOD from a 5d6 attack, and a 2d6 attack - the one that still does some STUN on average - is incapable of inflicting BOD.

 

Spending 5 on DN removes 1d6 damage - average 3.5 STUN and 1 BOD. If I am an automaton that Takes no Stun, those 5 points remove 1 BOD on average, 2 max. Bumping the cost to 15 is ludicrous. I can buy 3 rPD instead, with 1.5 points to spare.

[Lucius]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

There is a practical difference between having to guess in advance when you might need your expendable resources and being able to delay that decision until you have more solid information. Elvish Accuracy is a case of the latter -- it lets you reroll as a free action after you've already seen the initial roll, but only once per encounter. That sort of thing isn't easy to model in Hero 6E;

 

It's not?

 

Submitted for critique:

 

When it counts: Naked Advantage: Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; On any Bow, Trigger condition: a miss; +1/4) for up to 75 Active Points (19 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Bow (-1) Real Cost:5

 

If your Elven bows have more Active Points, increasing the power is not hard either.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[Greywind]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Who is Elven bows?

[Lucius]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Who is Elven bows?

 

Oops. Fixed.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I blame the palindromedary