Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

[drsid]

Now that I've finished with the VERY long powers chapter, I have a question for the experienced forum members.

 

In a heroic setting, would the characters ever use the powers chapters? Or, does the GM use that chapter to primarily create the various tools and gear for the setting. In a heroic setting, it would seem that most powers are used to represent equipment, gear, and the setting's technology versus any inherent powers in a character?

[Greywind]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

[Kosh]Yes.[/Kosh]

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Heroic level games use powers too, just to a lesser extent. A fantasy dwarf's ability to spin straw into gold is a power, as is the ability to see in the dark. The Vulcan mind-meld is a power. Fonzie's ability to start the jukebox by hitting it just so is a power.

[Beast]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

it is really going to depend on the genre and the GM

 

making a truth serum or vodoo zombies will take power creation

guns are just equipment

[dmjalund]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

In a heroic campaign, usually the GM creates a list of what powers are available (e.g. spells. cyberwear) and let the player pick from them. If a player wants something different, he would ask the GM, they would probably work out how much it costs (points and/or coin)

[Lucius]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

It depends on the setting.

 

First of all, Powers in Heroic games are absolutely not just for equipment; you can scratch that idea right away. For one thing, almost everyone gets Running and Swimming as Everyman Powers.

 

Many Heroic games have powers written up that the player may get as part of a package for being an Elf, a Martian, a Ninja, etc. The player may want to look in the Powers section to look up how a Power works, or calculate a suggested "tweak" ("I'd like my martian to have 8d6 Telepathy instead of 6d6.") Other power constructions may be options for some characters (some Elves have the gene for Ultraviolet Vision, and some don't) or options for all characters (very few games won't let you take Luck.)

 

A magic using character in Fantasy Hero might spend more on Powers than anything else.

 

In some cases players get to design their own powers. Sometimes, only the person running the game does so, and players can "order off the menu" rather than "cooking them up" themselves.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Power

[mayapuppies]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Some sample Heroic Level Power use:

 

• Acute Hearing: +1 PER with Normal Hearing
  
• Acute Sight: +1 PER with Normal Sight
  
• Casting the Bones: Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); Precognition Only (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2), No Range (-1/2)
  
• Spirit Attuned: Life Support (Longevity: 200 Years)
  
• Fables, Blessings and Parables: Variable Power Pool (Blessings Pool), 5 base + 5 control cost, all slots 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Day (-0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 32 people at once; +1 3/4), Recipient must be within Limited Range of the Grantor for power to be granted (12 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2), Conditional Power (Only Followers Of Stag, Horse and Mother; -1/4)
  
• Sanguinary Reliquary: Endurance Reserve (15 END, 10 REC) Reserve: , Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (13 Active Points); OIF (Sanguine Reliquary; -1/2); REC: (8 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, Character May Take No Other Actions, See Notes; -1 3/4), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; Character loses one BODY per infusion period; this damage only heals at the normal BODY healing rate of 1/week; -1), Slow Recovery 1 Minute (-1), OIF (Sanguine Reliquary; -1/2), Personal REC (-1/2)
  
• Ready For Another Round: +15 REC (15 Active Points); Conditional Power (Only When Taking A Non-Post Segment 12 Recovery In Combat; -2)
  

[Vondy]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

It depends on the setting.

 

That said, in my heroic games, preconstructed talents and superskills, are generally available to simulate genre elements and character tropes. So, yes, powers are available, but not in the "open season" sense.

[Fearghus]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

In a heroic setting' date=' would the characters ever use the powers chapters? Or, does the GM use that chapter to primarily create the various tools and gear for the setting. In a heroic setting, it would seem that most powers are used to represent equipment, gear, and the setting's technology versus any inherent powers in a character?[/quote']

 

Depends on the campaign and the GM really. It would be impossible to run a heroic fantasy game with out building spells and magical equipment for example. Powers can also be use to simulate various martial arts or similar abilities. I don't think I have personally ever been in a game where we didn't use powers for at least building gear.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

guns are just equipment

 

And Equipment are created with Powers. Sometimes it's important to have the full build, sometimes it's not.

 

Especially custom Equipment.

[Susano]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Some sample Heroic Level Power use:

 

• Acute Hearing: +1 PER with Normal Hearing
  
• Acute Sight: +1 PER with Normal Sight
  
• Casting the Bones: Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); Precognition Only (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2), No Range (-1/2)
  
• Spirit Attuned: Life Support (Longevity: 200 Years)
  
• Fables, Blessings and Parables: Variable Power Pool (Blessings Pool), 5 base + 5 control cost, all slots 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Day (-0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 32 people at once; +1 3/4), Recipient must be within Limited Range of the Grantor for power to be granted (12 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2), Conditional Power (Only Followers Of Stag, Horse and Mother; -1/4)
  
• Sanguinary Reliquary: Endurance Reserve (15 END, 10 REC) Reserve: , Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points; +1/4) (13 Active Points); OIF (Sanguine Reliquary; -1/2); REC: (8 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, Character May Take No Other Actions, See Notes; -1 3/4), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act, Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; Character loses one BODY per infusion period; this damage only heals at the normal BODY healing rate of 1/week; -1), Slow Recovery 1 Minute (-1), OIF (Sanguine Reliquary; -1/2), Personal REC (-1/2)
  
• Ready For Another Round: +15 REC (15 Active Points); Conditional Power (Only When Taking A Non-Post Segment 12 Recovery In Combat; -2)
  

 

Don't forget extra meters of Running, Leaping, Swimming, and so on. HSMA, for example, will have a number of Heroic-level Powers in the Realistic Martial Arts section.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Granted superheroes are going to get the most use out of powers, but they are really used across the board.

 

A low-level martial arts campaign might not have powers beyond gear, but high-end Wuxia abilities would certainly require powers.

As mentioned, magic in fantasy settings are powers, as well as some over-the-top combat manuevers (e.g. Legolas in LotR)

Cyberware and net-running programs are powers for a cyberpunk campaign.

Any Jedi knight would be built with powers, as would many of the aliens they encounter.

Most psychic or mental abilities, regardless of campaign, will be powers.

 

________________________________________________________________

With great power comes great utility bills

[Tasha]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Now that I've finished with the VERY long powers chapter, I have a question for the experienced forum members.

 

In a heroic setting, would the characters ever use the powers chapters? Or, does the GM use that chapter to primarily create the various tools and gear for the setting. In a heroic setting, it would seem that most powers are used to represent equipment, gear, and the setting's technology versus any inherent powers in a character?

 

It depends on the Genre. Most Fantasy Hero game will use the Powers section extensively to make spells and special abilities. In a gritty military campaign probably not so much so. Also, many Martial arts (ie Movie Martial arts) games will also use powers esp if it's a wuxia or wirefu martial arts kind of game.

 

You can use powers to approximate Talents. Also weapons and equipment are created using powers.

[pinecone]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Very possably...weird talents, psychic abilitys, super science. Heck magic spells, just depends on the genre...

[Susano]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Cyberware and net-running programs are powers for a cyberpunk campaign.

 

Kazei 5 uses Powers to build Genetic Upgrades, Replicated Humans, Esper Weapons, cybewrware, computers, guns, armor, gears, software programs....

[dmjalund]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Of course, it depends on whether the GM wants to limit the powers to something he pregenerates, or is more willing to let the players loose in the Powers section themselves

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

I used to say absolutely not, with genre-specific exceptions (spells, psionic abilities, etc.) . I've mellowed a lot since then... there's plenty of precedent in all kinds of source for characters having abilities that are modeled using Powers. But I agree with the general trend of not allowing "open season".

[torchwolf]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

You can of course, in advance, write up any conceptual generally available Powers as Talents (such as "Acrobatic Leap": Leaping with Requires A Roll, Acrobatics), but that may be impractical, as it may limit your players' creativity and get your self a lot of extra work, so if you go that way, I'd recommend you just do those on a case-by-case basis. Otherwise, it may feel a bit too much like a List of Feats.

Showing your players how the Talents were built might give them ideas (also doing some of the work for you).

[tesuji]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

A lot of combt tricks would be built as powers or as naked advantages.

 

A "superkick" martial arts attack might be written up as an HA with double knockback or just a naked advantage on so many dice of attack.

 

A rope master might use "entangle" with limitations to make a "more effective than grab" maneuver

 

Flashes, NNDs,

 

a thief might buy clinging or even invisibility(limited to crowded circumstances)

 

none of these magic or anything more than " he is really really good at this" kind of abilities.

[Lucius]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Excerpted from the "How did you guys learn Hero system?" thread.

 

 

The day came that she brought up Powers, and I said I didn't want to be

a superhero. "Powers aren't just for supers" she said, tossing me a bag

of throwing stars and taking out a sword. "You wanted the Weapon

Familiarity, start throwing." As I tossed them one by one she knocked

them aside, explaining "Killing Attacks are a power. So's Missile

Deflection. And Reflection." She caught the last one barehanded and

returned it; only Combat Luck saved me. "Run or die." She charged, and

being no fool, I ran. Even though I knew she wouldn't kill me - not as

long as I was doing what she said, anyway. "So's Running. Now stop.

Listen." I listened, believe me. "That trick with walking on rice paper

- Limited Gliding. Scattering marbles to trip up pursuers - Change

Environment. The Ninja's famous ability to 'disappear' in plain sight -

Invisibility. Just because something's listed in the Powers section of

the book doesn't mean having it qualifies you for a mask and cape."

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Qualified to have a palindromedary

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Now that I've finished with the VERY long powers chapter, I have a question for the experienced forum members.

 

In a heroic setting, would the characters ever use the powers chapters? Or, does the GM use that chapter to primarily create the various tools and gear for the setting. In a heroic setting, it would seem that most powers are used to represent equipment, gear, and the setting's technology versus any inherent powers in a character?

 

This is one of those questions with multiple right answers.

 

As others have already pointed out, powers can be used to simulate a multitude of non-super sfx abilities.

However, a GM can certainly choose not to allow their use to build 'super-skills'. He might also choose to disallow existing super-skill-esq Talents in favor of a more Skill centric campaign approach.

It's all about how the GM wants to use the Toolkit.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

I remember back in the 4th edition days how nigh everyone on the message boards used to tell me that Powers were for Superhero games and that they didn't belong in Fantasy or Sci-fi unless representing spells or mental powers. How times have changed. How times have changed....

[drsid]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

You can of course, in advance, write up any conceptual generally available Powers as Talents (such as "Acrobatic Leap": Leaping with Requires A Roll, Acrobatics), but that may be impractical, as it may limit your players' creativity and get your self a lot of extra work, so if you go that way, I'd recommend you just do those on a case-by-case basis. Otherwise, it may feel a bit too much like a List of Feats.

Showing your players how the Talents were built might give them ideas (also doing some of the work for you).

 

I think this is the approach I will take. It seems to blend the best of both worlds.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

I remember back in the 4th edition days how nigh everyone on the message boards used to tell me that Powers were for Superhero games and that they didn't belong in Fantasy or Sci-fi unless representing spells or mental powers. How times have changed. How times have changed....

 

Yes, and I was one of them...

[Vondy]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

This is one of those questions with multiple right answers.

 

As others have already pointed out, powers can be used to simulate a multitude of non-super sfx abilities.

However, a GM can certainly choose not to allow their use to build 'super-skills'. He might also choose to disallow existing super-skill-esq Talents in favor of a more Skill centric campaign approach.

It's all about how the GM wants to use the Toolkit.

 

I do tend to use custom talents and superskills (to a lesser degree), but to emphasize what you said, some talents and most super-skills could be built with deftly applied skills or very high skill rolls. The Ultimate Skill contains guidelines for using them in that fashion. And even in fantasy, which leverages powers more than most heroic genres, some approaches to magic could be skill/contact centric.