LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

[Greywind]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Going with Flight you need to reduce the turn mode greatly.

[dmjalund]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Going with Flight you need to reduce the turn mode greatly.

you can buy flight with the zero turn mode advantage

[SteveZilla]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Or buy Running, Useable as Flight... While Running he would have no Turn Mode, but doing "special tricks" that would require A Flight-based Power Build, he would have a turn mode. IMO this would be logical, though by no means required for all "Super Speed Running" builds.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

that should be fun

and for area effects buy defenses

 

my friend wants to house rule

dive for cover

so that the charcter need not decide ahead of time how many hexes it wants to travel

rather just make however many points the character made its dex roll by is how many hexes they dived.

 

 

Hmm. That's how we do it Worked for us for years

[SteveZilla]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Actually, I think that is a more logical, and internally consistent way of doing it. It bears resemblance to the scatter rules for a missed AoE attack. Though I can see too versions of DfC -- one where you have a specific destination in mind (i.e., behind the aforementioned cover), and another which is "I really don't want to be *here* right now."

[torchwolf]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Actually' date=' I think that is a more logical, and internally consistent way of doing it. It bears resemblance to the scatter rules for a missed AoE attack. Though I can see too versions of DfC -- one where you have a specific destination in mind (i.e., behind the aforementioned cover), and another which is "I really don't want to be *here* right now."[/quote']

I've used both versions of DfC, but with the "Untargeted" version having a random direction, like scatter (i.e., you just want to get somewhere else and throw yourself reflexively in any direction). Otherwise, the "Untargeted" version is better than the "Targeted", and causes a bit inconsistency with declaring a target area for Leaping.

Doing it that way caused my players to intermittently use both methods (depending most on the environment, but in some cases it was dependent on what "felt right" to a player under the particular circumstances).

[Greywind]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Yes, but if I recall correctly, Quicksilver fluctuated between being able to run up the side of a building and not being able to run up the side of a building.

 

All depended on who was doing the writing and the needs of the story.

[SteveZilla]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

That's just because he didn't buy Plot Defense (resistant).

[Bloodstone]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Yes, but if I recall correctly, Quicksilver fluctuated between being able to run up the side of a building and not being able to run up the side of a building.

 

All depended on who was doing the writing and the needs of the story.

 

His speed has varied considerably through the years. At one point, he could easily hit Mach 5.

 

When he was depowered via "No More Mutants", a certain writer claimed that his top speed used to be 120 mph, which was so obviously wrong as to be outright insulting...

 

That said, I don't personally recall there ever being a time when he was super fast yet too slow to run up a wall, but I may be forgetting something. Perhaps in X-factor when he thought he was losing his powers...

 

(and my apologies for derailing the tread away from talk of Characteristics)

[Greywind]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Why? How fast he can run is a characteristic of Quicksilver.

[SteveZilla]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Why? How fast he can run is a characteristic of Quicksilver.

 

Meh. That's just a number. Just like 43-22-36.

 

[Bloodstone]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Why? How fast he can run is a characteristic of Quicksilver.

 

True, but it's not quite the same issue as what the OP was talking about.

 

On a related note, I've been giving some thought to superhuman levels of Dexterity.

 

In the official published 5E CU material, I don't believe there was a single character with a DEX over 38. Most character' had at least an 18, so really there was only about a 20 point range.

 

I think a part of this was that OCV tended to range from 8 at the low end all the way up to about 16 for a certain super accurate archer.

 

Now that OCV/DCV (and SPD) have been decoupled from DEX, I'm wondering if we we'll not only see characters with more "normal" DEX scroes, but also characters with even higher DEX scores.

 

I mean, no one blinks at a STR of 60 or so.

 

Is a DEX of 40+ going to be that big of a deal now?

[Cardinal]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

I don't have Champions 6E, but I shouldn't that be the first data point of the new era (other than Taurus, et al in the 6E book)... what do the dex and ocv / dcv spreads look like in it?

[megaplayboy]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

True, but it's not quite the same issue as what the OP was talking about.

 

On a related note, I've been giving some thought to superhuman levels of Dexterity.

 

In the official published 5E CU material, I don't believe there was a single character with a DEX over 38. Most character' had at least an 18, so really there was only about a 20 point range.

 

I think a part of this was that OCV tended to range from 8 at the low end all the way up to about 16 for a certain super accurate archer.

 

Now that OCV/DCV (and SPD) have been decoupled from DEX, I'm wondering if we we'll not only see characters with more "normal" DEX scroes, but also characters with even higher DEX scores.

 

I mean, no one blinks at a STR of 60 or so.

 

Is a DEX of 40+ going to be that big of a deal now?

 

The DEX equivalent of a 90 STR would be DEX 50. For a 100 STR, DEX 55. The DEX equivalent of 60 STR would be 35 DEX, not 30. In a high end cosmic game where a 150 STR might be permissible, the DEX equivalent would be 80!

 

Back as to what kind of stats supers should have, and focusing mainly on the "big 6"--STR, DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE--I think usually one can explain slightly better than average physical stats on the basis of either a direct benefit from superpowers, an incidental one, intense training or even simply the fact that the hero is getting quite a workout on a regular basis. Some heroes have intellectual/scientific backgrounds, and so a superior INT score might be entirely reasonable. Anyone in a field that requires considerable discipline(police, military, scientific/medical/legal jobs involving long hours and lots of concentration, jobs where you have to deal with a lot of difficult people and difficult/traumatic situations) might have a superior EGO score. And the enhanced confidence, enhanced physiology and substantial experience confronting intimidating villains and dealing with the public would likely lead to some fairly impressive PRE scores.

 

Take Peter Parker as an example--at the outset, he already had a very high INT for a teen(maybe 18?), though his EGO and PRE scores were likely sub-par. His powers boosted all of his physical stats considerably. And, over time, the challenges of being a solo superhero while trying to make a living/juggle a personal life/etc. tended to boost his willpower a bit, and of course his ability to intimidate common criminals and deal with overwhelming threats with aplomb led to a considerable boost in his PRE as well.

I think one can justify any stat score up to 15 among the big six with little difficulty, usually at character creation. Stats from 16-20 probably require that the stat be a peripheral component of the character concept(he's an athlete, an inventor, etc.), and those above 20 but below superhuman levels would likely require that the stat be a core component of the character concept(a gold medal athlete, one of the most brilliant inventors in the world, an incredibly disciplined and strong willed individual, a charismatic actor or politician, etc.).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

I think one can justify any stat score up to 15 among the big six with little difficulty' date=' usually at character creation. Stats from 16-20 probably require that the stat be a peripheral component of the character concept(he's an athlete, an inventor, etc.), and those above 20 but below superhuman levels would likely require that the stat be a core component of the character concept(a gold medal athlete, one of the most brilliant inventors in the world, an incredibly disciplined and strong willed individual, a charismatic actor or politician, etc.).[/quote']

 

That approach will see characters Stunned a lot more frequently, though (or defenses need to rise markedly). CON is the last stat that probably needs to be high for all Supers. Mind you, Supers get pretty regular, intense exercise, so having a high CON seems more justifiable across the board than most other stats. Maybe Ego - how much willpower do you need to risk your life defending others for no reward?

[casualplayer]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

I think one can justify any stat score up to 15 among the big six with little difficulty' date=' usually at character creation. Stats from 16-20 probably require that the stat be a peripheral component of the character concept(he's an athlete, an inventor, etc.), and those above 20 but below superhuman levels would likely require that the stat be a core component of the character concept(a gold medal athlete, one of the most brilliant inventors in the world, an incredibly disciplined and strong willed individual, a charismatic actor or politician, etc.).[/quote']

 

I like this a lot. Well expressed and diminishes the likelihood of trampling someone else's shtick just because the points were available.

[megaplayboy]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

That approach will see characters Stunned a lot more frequently' date=' though (or defenses need to rise markedly). CON is the last stat that probably needs to be high for all Supers. Mind you, Supers get pretty regular, intense exercise, so having a high CON seems more justifiable across the board than most other stats. Maybe Ego - how much willpower do you need to risk your life defending others for no reward?[/quote']

 

Well, see my second para there--particularly with regard to CON, most "super" superheroes (energy projectors, mages, etc.) are channeling strange, powerful energies through their bodies, and a legendary or even superhuman CON stat is reasonably justifiable. There might be a few archetypes(gadgeteers, egoists) who have sub-18 CON stats, but I'd probably say nobody should be running around with less than a 15. Perhaps they can compensate for that with some extra def or even 1/4 DR.

[casualplayer]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

That approach will see characters Stunned a lot more frequently' date=' though (or defenses need to rise markedly). CON is the last stat that probably needs to be high for all Supers. Mind you, Supers get pretty regular, intense exercise, so having a high CON seems more justifiable across the board than most other stats. Maybe Ego - how much willpower do you need to risk your life defending others for no reward?[/quote']

 

CON's necessitated value will be influenced by how much damage you allow into the campaign that can bypass defenses rather than get preemptively soaked by DEF before reaching CON.

[SteveZilla]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

CON's necessitated value will be influenced by how much damage you allow into the campaign that can bypass defenses rather than get preemptively soaked by DEF before reaching CON.

 

Or preemptively negated with damage negation (IIUC - no 6th yet).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

CON's necessitated value will be influenced by how much damage you allow into the campaign that can bypass defenses rather than get preemptively soaked by DEF before reaching CON.

 

Yes and no. If I'm playing a character with a 13 CON in a game where 12 DC is the norm, I probably want 30+ defenses so I will not be Stunned by a typical attack. If I have 50 STUN, then it will take 5 attacks to KO me (more if I get a recovery). That means longer fights than a game where 3 hits to KO is the norm. Being stunned by pretty much every exotic attack will get stale very fast, so I guess I also need a bunch of exotic defenses as well. Is that preferable to having higher CON scores for the PC's?

[Bloodstone]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Yes and no. If I'm playing a character with a 13 CON in a game where 12 DC is the norm' date=' I probably want 30+ defenses so I will not be Stunned by a typical attack. If I have 50 STUN, then it will take 5 attacks to KO me (more if I get a recovery). That means longer fights than a game where 3 hits to KO is the norm. Being stunned by pretty much every exotic attack will get stale very fast, so I guess I also need a bunch of exotic defenses as well. Is that preferable to having higher CON scores for the PC's?[/quote']

 

You can also generally get by with lesser DEF and higher DCV.

 

It's gonna hurt when you do get hit but if so long as that rarely happens it won't be much of a problem.

 

Which does bring up a questing of reevaluating the balance points as a result of the the reduction in price of AoE...

[casualplayer]

Re: LETS DO IT AGAIN: Arguing over characteristics

 

Yes and no. If I'm playing a character with a 13 CON in a game where 12 DC is the norm' date=' I probably want 30+ defenses so I will not be Stunned by a typical attack. If I have 50 STUN, then it will take 5 attacks to KO me (more if I get a recovery). That means longer fights than a game where 3 hits to KO is the norm. Being stunned by pretty much every exotic attack will get stale very fast, so I guess I also need a bunch of exotic defenses as well. Is that preferable to having higher CON scores for the PC's?[/quote']

 

What I meant was that the less you can rely on your DEF (and DCV) to abate damage, the higher CON will need to be to keep characters from folding too easy. If it's a game where straight damage is the majority of attacks then CON+DEF>average damage keeps you in the fight. If everyone has a swiss army MP of Blasts then you have to consider getting a CON high enough to weather the ubiquitous AVADs.