Curufea Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Yet there is still some science: "Apply the pigment in this way to produce this result" at a minimum. Color mixing' date=' which minerals work best as sculpting media, what clays have the right consistency for pottery... art is not independent of nor in opposition to science, but is an aesthetic application thereof.[/quote'] Not necessarily - religion based magic for example. Shamanism, calling on the spirits, praying to the gods for divine intervention. There may be rituals - but sometimes there aren't - you make it up as you go along. You sacrifice an animal hoping to appease your God, but you can't be sure it's what He wants, or that it is good enough for His notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Not necessarily - religion based magic for example. Shamanism' date=' calling on the spirits, praying to the gods for divine intervention. There may be rituals - but sometimes there aren't - you make it up as you go along. You sacrifice an animal hoping to appease your God, but you can't be sure it's what He wants, or that it is good enough for His notice.[/quote'] It depends upon how the GM wants things to work. Maybe you don't get to be a shaman until you've been taught everything you need to know about doing the job. Alternately, maybe a god picks his own shaman and tells him what he needs to know to be his priest, etc. It works the way the GM decides, whether it's art, science, or a mixture of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... It depends upon how the GM wants things to work. Maybe you don't get to be a shaman until you've been taught everything you need to know about doing the job. Alternately' date=' maybe a god picks his own shaman and tells him what he needs to know to be his priest, etc. It works the way the GM decides, whether it's art, science, or a mixture of the two.[/quote'] Actually I aways thought of Shamanism as being very Zen, large parts of the discipline were about forgetting the material world so that what you think you know doesn't get in the way of what you know without knowing. Take a step back from the material and commune with the spark of the eternal within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Actually I aways thought of Shamanism as being very Zen' date=' large parts of the discipline were about [i']forgetting[/i] the material world so that what you think you know doesn't get in the way of what you know without knowing. Take a step back from the material and commune with the spark of the eternal with. Which is why they use so many interesting herbs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... I had a dream about this kind of thing last night. There was a town, and the local bigwig was trying to have medieval Chinese-style rocket batteries installed as a defence against dragons. Everyone thought he was nuts. Later on we discovered that he had been smoking Black Lotus, and that his pipe was also a crude firearm. (And bludgeon, since it was a big hunk of iron!) I've incorporated the dream into a little world I've been designing. For the moment, gunpowder, rockets and Black Lotus all originate in the distant Empire of Yon, which is famous for its alchemists, and for it's Immortal Emperor. Or at least it's Undead Emperor. Either way, it's alchemists are really good at what they do. It's a long trip by sea or air from the main campaign area, and the area in between is full of pirates, savages, petty kingdoms, not-so-petty kingdoms and so on, which means that any journey by the PCs would be a saga in itself, even though merchants seem to be able to make the trip regularly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... There's a Korean movie titled Divine Weapon which is about the invention and use of the Korean rocket-arrow artillery. A neat look at gunpowder and the use of rockets in an other wise sword, spear, bow, and armor setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... There's a Korean movie titled Divine Weapon which is about the invention and use of the Korean rocket-arrow artillery. A neat look at gunpowder and the use of rockets in an other wise sword' date=' spear, bow, and armor setting.[/quote'] Yeah, I particularly liked the all-destroying medieval gunpowder ICBM they used on the bad guys at the end - and also teh sexy female engineer! In reality, the Koreans did get good use out of their rockets, attributing at least one battlefield victory to them, but they were used the same way as early firearms - shoot 'em en masse and at very close range. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... One of the species/cultures in my fantasy setting uses rockets to good effect to maintain their independence, maybe even existence, in the face of multiple hostile powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Yeah, I particularly liked the all-destroying medieval gunpowder ICBM they used on the bad guys at the end - and also teh sexy female engineer! In reality, the Koreans did get good use out of their rockets, attributing at least one battlefield victory to them, but they were used the same way as early firearms - shoot 'em en masse and at very close range. cheers, Mark Heh, I should have mentioned it's a fictionalized account of the development of said weapon. And supposedly, they had ranges of up to 2 km for some of these rockets. Good for hitting massed armies and cities, and the launcher itself fired something like 50-100 arrows at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Actually I aways thought of Shamanism as being very Zen' date=' large parts of the discipline were about [i']forgetting[/i] the material world so that what you think you know doesn't get in the way of what you know without knowing. Take a step back from the material and commune with the spark of the eternal within. Yeah, but those are just SFX. Game mechanics may differ. There's a Korean movie titled Divine Weapon which is about the invention and use of the Korean rocket-arrow artillery. A neat look at gunpowder and the use of rockets in an other wise sword' date=' spear, bow, and armor setting.[/quote'] Divine Weapon Trailer Alternative uses for "bang stuff" Pecussion ignition is historically incorrect -- probably fired by hot-wire ignition or slow match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Crud... can someone rep the SSgt for posting the links of the Korean rocket launcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Crud... can someone rep the SSgt for posting the links of the Korean rocket launcher? Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Who's inspired to run a Fantasy Steampunk campaign? Been doing so for years as my fantasy game morphed from ancient world to middle ages to swashbucklers to... over its 2 decade history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Crud... can someone rep the SSgt for posting the links of the Korean rocket launcher? And done again. That was pretty cool - but also makes the point that they didn't score a single hit on their non-moving targets. Where the Koreans had success with their rockets was when they were defending fortified points. like Haengju. Think about that video, with all the rockets shooting out and then imagine firing 3 or 4 of them at a bunch of samurai charging through a narrow area like a breach in a wall - at a range of say 10 metres. That seems to have been how they were most effective. Not just all those missiles, but also the sound and the smoke - it'd be pretty intimidating. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... And done again. That was pretty cool - but also makes the point that they didn't score a single hit on their non-moving targets. Where the Koreans had success with their rockets was when they were defending fortified points. like Haengju. Think about that video, with all the rockets shooting out and then imagine firing 3 or 4 of them at a bunch of samurai charging through a narrow area like a breach in a wall - at a range of say 10 metres. That seems to have been how they were most effective. Not just all those missiles, but also the sound and the smoke - it'd be pretty intimidating. cheers, Mark Well, they did overshoot the targets, but yes, I never imagined you'd use the thing alone... you'd have a battery and if you were smart, you'd have a rough idea of where the rockets would land and how long it would take to get there. So you saturate a small area you know the enemy is going to come through. Naturally, you'd probably want your fantasy version to behave more like the ones in Divine Weapon than in Mythbusters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Two things: A) The Mythbusters test used a small number of spread out targets. Against an actual advancing army, they'd likely have scored a lot of hits. The team had never fired them before. Given them another volley, and they probably devestate those dummy targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Oh, and as for reload time? In Divine Weapon they the have additional magazines of pre-loaded rockets they place on the wheeled carriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... The Koreans were pretty inventive. Witness the Turtle Ship, possibly the first ironclad vessel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Two things: A) The Mythbusters test used a small number of spread out targets. Against an actual advancing army, they'd likely have scored a lot of hits. The team had never fired them before. Given them another volley, and they probably devestate those dummy targets. Maybe - the rockets are actually pretty inaccurate and don't fly the same way every time. Odds are good that given a lot of practice, they might hit one or two - or none. As I noted, they only worked for the Koreans in real life when used to defend walls (and en masse - Hængju had 40). Oh' date=' and as for reload time? In [i']Divine Weapon[/i] they the have additional magazines of pre-loaded rockets they place on the wheeled carriage. Yeah. That seems like a smart idea, but as far as I know, there's no record of that being done historically - probably because of the difficulty of transporting and mounting the "magazine" (or maybe because they just didn't think of it: lots of things look obvious in hindsight). cheers, M ark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Maybe - the rockets are actually pretty inaccurate and don't fly the same way every time. Odds are good that given a lot of practice' date=' they might hit one or two - or none. As I noted, they only worked for the Koreans in real life when used to defend walls (and en masse - Hængju had 40).[/quote'] The results of the test seem show a lot of the arrows landing the same general area. If they were so inaccurate as to be functionally unaimable, I'd expect a lot more spread when they're fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... Ancient Discoveries Islamic Science Part5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... ...and now for something a little more far-fetched: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... ...and now for something a little more far-fetched: I've heard it said that some of the weapons the god used in the Indian epic poem (the name of which I forget) do sound like nuclear devices. Then again, if a diving being decides to drop 'the light of the sun' or something like that on a city, have the end result being akin to an atomic weapon being detonated sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Re: A couple of brain cells connected... I've heard it said that some of the weapons the god used in the Indian epic poem (the name of which I forget) do sound like nuclear devices. Then again' date=' if a diving being decides to drop 'the light of the sun' or something like that on a city, have the end result being akin to an atomic weapon being detonated sounds about right.[/quote'] Anyone here who hasn't read Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light should immediately run out and buy a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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