Lucius Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type Yes, but no one wants to sit out the game. You confuse me. Isn't the upshot going to be someone sitting out the game anyway? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary adds that it's also not true that no one wants to sit it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type Don't go confusing things by bringing logic into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type You confuse me. Isn't the upshot going to be someone sitting out the game anyway? ideally, the upshot would be the player hands me a character I understand and perhaps even the other players understand that it's also not true that no one wants to sit it out. Players not currently playing are allowed to speak for minor NPCs during the adventure. The GM can decide if the NPC actually said what a player suggested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timfnj Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type Thank you. I'll try them. I had been using the Friz(sp?) template. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type I require a restricted definition of what powers could be used on the variable power power pool based on special effect of powers. after having read a few of the vast supply of Killer Strike's characters and vehicles, I would add that mental awareness does not come with other mental attacks in my games. Mental Awareness is no longer for free in 6E when you take a Mental Power; All of those are 5E and older characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type as the write up is one page' date=' that character would be allowed[/quote'] So I can have any construct I want, so long as it fits to one page? I generally review the overall character for fit with the other characters, the campaign setting, etc. Just because it doesn't have a lot of lines doesn't mean it can't be unbalanced. Compare two characters, one which spends points on 25 3 point background skills (each on its own line) and one that has no such skills, but instead adds the points to the character's major attack power (+9d6) and defenses (+15/+15). Which character is more likely to be problematic? Anything I feel is appropriate for the situation within the confines of the shared perception of the setting [/code]oaff house rules guidelines are campaign dependent So it's not OK for someone to have a versatile and complex character that covers 2 pages, but it's perfectly reasonable for the GM to have arcane house rules, campaign guidelines, etc. longer than the rulebooks and expect the players to read and understand that. Yes' date=' but no one wants to sit out the game [/quote'] Without an approved character, you're sitting out the game anyway. Unless the GM allows himself to be browbeaten into allowing a poorly reviewed (if reviewed at all) character because the player can't get his act together until the last second, and then to accept whatever was on the sheet because he didn't question it at the time. That's why our group plans in advance for new games, allowing players lots of time to prepare their characters and have the GM look them over before the first session of a new campaign. We typically don't even schedule a new game until the characters are pretty much done. Character review is done outside game time (email is a marvelous thing). And even then we typically have come character issues resolved with "we'll see how it works in the game and modify it should a problem arise". And if an unforeseen issue arises, the character gets modified to correct that as well. I suppose restrictions on size of character sheet may be more beneficial if your game leans to a more "player vs GM" atmosphere where pulling a fast one on the GM somehow means a "win"for the player. That's a different style than I prefer, but may suit the tastes of some gamers. Atthe end of the day, you have to go with what works for your game. To me, though, imposing restrictions on the character sheet is excessive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type ideally, the upshot would be the player hands me a character I understand and perhaps even the other players understand Character sheets cointain visable organization they lists stats in a column multi-power slots are listed under the multipower skills are set to their own list Over designed characters have ability they never use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type ideally, the upshot would be the player hands me a character I understand and perhaps even the other players understand Wouldn't it be ideal if the person running the game can understand the characters presented for play? Or perhaps at least be willing to ask for an explanation if something seems unclear? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary buys the Power of Invisibility so as to be as clear as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaredThaler Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type I think I will stick with the "Give me the character one week in advance rule" or the "This looks fine, but if it turns out to be unbalancing, we are retconning his power level" (Hey, it's a comic book, they do that all the time...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type If it's going to be a campaign, then time before hand is a nice thing. I always consider characters a work in progress anyway. Sometimes play will show something being unbalanced that wasn't apparent during review. For Con games, I certainly appreciate a more succinct character sheet and the same goes for GM supplied if I'm the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type Considering most print books are in a 10 Point Serif Font with 1.2 Leading. . . I consider your demand on what size font my character is in to be the height of insults. It's absurdity taken to such a massively high new level I'm having trouble visualizing it. I can come up with a number of 12pt Fonts that would be nearly impossible to read to boot. That's before we even get into Condensed Fonts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallet Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type I like large, easier to read and use sheets. This is an example of the sheets we use in the fantasy Hero game I GM: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type While I can understand your reason for wanting to impliment a rule like this, I can tell you from experience that it may not work out quite the way you're hoping. On one hand, I've seen plenty of non-broken character sheets that take up more than one 12-point typed page side, and on the the other, I've seen some broken ones that take up less than a page. The way I generally run things, we don't start the campaign until I have a copy of everyone's sheet in hand and have an opportunity to look them over, and any noobs in the group use pre-gens provided by me until I have the time to give them a tutorial on the finer points of character generation. Also, as others have also pointed out, if a problem comes up in game you just have a polite chat with the character's player and sort things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type true my concern is not so much broken characters as overly complex characters that are difficult to understand I thought limiting write length would be a good way to help prevent that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type my concern is not so much broken characters as overly complex characters that are difficult to understand I thought limiting write length would be a good way to help prevent that Well, that depends entirely on a number of things. A while back we ran, for a bit, with some Fantasy Hero. The very first game when we printed out all the character sheets we were AMAZED by how much space the mages required. The first thing we did was tick the box in HD so that not all common Limitations are displayed in each slot. But the spells still took up quite a bit of space. So we finally just created a custom list with custom powers with the spell names and costs. The spells were then printed on a separate 'spell book' page. I, like you, am fond of simple builds that get straight to the meat of the matter. However, sometimes, it's just not possible. The only advice I can give is to try and vet the characters as much as possible and make sure that they are building from reason and not reasoning from build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type true my concern is not so much broken characters as overly complex characters that are difficult to understand I thought limiting write length would be a good way to help prevent that Requiring every power to have a plain language description would be better. That would make the character sheet longer but more comprehensible. Lucius Alexander Short palindromedary tagline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type So, what does the player who is writing up his UberCool Character likely to do when he hits that 1 page limit? My guess is that he will not drop abilities and modifiers in order to fit this arbitrary limit, and in the process remove his vision of the character he wishes to play. Rather, I think he will likely take steps like: - abbreviations and acronyms to shave lines - Blast becomes Bl; Armor Piercing becomes AP; 8 Charges becomes 8 ch and so on. - take out the flavour text. I know that the Bl vs MD AoE 4mCr, Inc (formerly Blast, Attack versus Alternate Defense, Mental Defense, Area of Effect 4 meter Cone, Incantations) is the Soul Rending Shriek of Il'Katur. I won't write that name down, in the interests of space, so you just get the mechanics. In other words, my guess is that you are at least as likely to get a less comprehensible writeup than a more comprehensible writeup. I'd much rather have a group that has had a discussion to find common ground on power levels and complexity of writeups, ideally coming to consensus, but possible a compromise, that allows all the players to run the kind of characters they enjoy playing, in a game where all the players and the GM are having fun. That undoubtedly includes allowing the GM enough time to review the characters and be comfortable with the impact of their abilities. It may include players explaining complexities to other players so someone else can run their character in their absence. It probably includes agreement that abilities or characters which prove unbalancing in play - whether overshadowing the other characters, not performing up to the standard evisioned by the player, or having an ability which proves unexpectedly effective or ineffective - will be subject to revision. And, if your group sees fit, it could even include specific restrictions on character sheet design, including size, margins, fonts, etc. But I don't see character sheet design requirements as all that effective, all that desirable, or very much fun, so I doubt it's part of the social contract my group would come to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type I have to agree with those who are saying that a page-length limit on character sheets isn't going to get the OP what he seems to want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type I tend to have work sheets and play sheets. Here is a standard play sheet for a protagonist in a historical game (c. 1600). I'm not going it give background information on the game/character here. I might in another thread when more is done. [ATTACH]34529[/ATTACH] Some notes: I dropped END, OECV, DECV for this game. I do grabs as opposed strength rolls I do presence attacks as opposed characteristic and or skill rolls I use the "organization" multiplier for classes of contacts I treat background skills as free-form regular skills (utility and cost wise) I only allow "expert" as a skill enhancer (the others are just iterations of it) I don't impose transport or weapon familiarity pens if the character has a relevant skill or skill level The skills cantor, mohel, sofer, and shochet are zero point flavor skills Polyglot is constructed using the TUS compound skill for backgrounds I treat languages are INT based skills I don't charge character points for equipment, bases, or vehicles. I call complications "plot points" and give no character points for them. Instead, they serve as the basis of HAP economics. Translation notes: HaSaif Lbneit Brit - the sword of the children of the covenant (a secret society of jewish mystics with a nationalist vision). Talmud Hohkam - specific usage: a talmudist; general usage: an expert in the broader Jewish corpus Mohel - do circumcision Sofer - a ritual scribe Shochet - ritual slaughter for kashrut purposes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type [*]Shochet - a ritual slaughterer To forestall any misunderstanding, perhaps you should point out that "slaughter" in this context means killing animals for food, and "ritual" means according to traditional Jewish law (such as killing with a single swift stroke across the throat to make the death quick and easy for the creature, not killing one beast where another will witness the act and suffer fear and helplessness, inspecting it to make sure it's healthy, etc.) Someone who doesn't know might see "ritual slaughterer" and think of a Divinely inspired battlefield berserker or something else far off the mark. Lucius Alexander I don't think a palindromedary is kosher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type To forestall any misunderstanding, perhaps you should point out that "slaughter" in this context means killing animals for food, and "ritual" means according to traditional Jewish law (such as killing with a single swift stroke across the throat to make the death quick and easy for the creature, not killing one beast where another will witness the act and suffer fear and helplessness, inspecting it to make sure it's healthy, etc.) Someone who doesn't know might see "ritual slaughterer" and think of a Divinely inspired battlefield berserker or something else far off the mark. Lucius Alexander Um... yeah. Okay. I edited it to make you happy. I don't think a palindromedary is kosher Most certainly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type My character sheets are far too pretty to put on one page! (Though, as an artist, my math often falls short) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type My character sheets are far too pretty to put on one page! (Though, as an artist, my math often falls short) They are pretty. Kind of hard for the rest of us to reproduce, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type I was showing them, not sharing them. But seriously, yes... I used to do all of them in Illustrator. I've recently switched over to Word so that I can share them with Co-GMs. This is the first time in many years that I wasn't the only GM, so there's never been a need for anyone else to read them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type My character sheets are far too pretty to put on one page! (Though, as an artist, my math often falls short) Must Spread Rep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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