Expert Craftsman

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

One of the duchies within the Kingdom of Tursh is well known for their skilled weapon/armorsmiths. PC's have the option to purchase a "Sanneth made weapon/armor" and for the the additional price they get the following:

Sanneth Manufactured Weapon: Positive Reputation: Wealthy or Skilled Swordsman (A small to medium sized group) 8-, +1/+1d6, +1 OCV with [Weapon] (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2)

 

or

 

Sanneth Manufactured Armor: plus Resistant Protection (1 PD/1 ED) (Real Cost: 3)

Now, the skill these smiths have come from a long tradition of forging and crafting techniques that are handed down from Master to Apprentice and so on. I had never intended for a PC to develop the skills necessary to craft at this level, explaining it away as a lifetime of training and experience, etc etc

 

But recently I've been approached by GM's and Players alike who have shown interest in having a PC with the ability to manufacture equipment at such a skill level.

 

I have no idea how to properly build a skill package around this and how to show, mechanically, how a PC gives a manufactured item the above bonuses. So I turn to Herodome for support.

 

I am looking to build a Master Craftsman package that has all of the skills necessary to be a weaponsmith/armorsmith of this caliber and, if possible, a build that would bestow the above bonuses to a manufactured item. I run skill heavy games so I'm not shy of what many GM's would consider superfluous skills and I utilize a Skill Maxima of 13-.

 

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

So I started thinking that maybe the ability/skill to bestow the special qualities of the weapon/armor could be represented by a build similar to the one below:

Fables, Blessings and Parables: Variable Power Pool (Blessings Pool), 5 base + 5 control cost, all slots 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Day (-0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 32 people at once; +1 3/4), Recipient must be within Limited Range of the Grantor for power to be granted (12 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2), Conditional Power (Only Followers Of Asuna; -1/4)

This is a build I use to represent a Priest/Shamans ability to bestow minor blessings upon the faithful, and I was thinking that having a similar do-hicky for a Master Craftsman might be usable. The trick would be to make the "blessings" permanent, rather than only for 24 hours.

 

There are other minor adjustments, like making the extra time longer and limiting the effect to a single item rather than 32, but the idea is the same, a minor VPP that can be used to instill increased abilities to a piece of armor or a weapon.

 

Thoughts?

[Markdoc]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

So I started thinking that maybe the ability/skill to bestow the special qualities of the weapon/armor could be represented by a build similar to the one below:

 

This is a build I use to represent a Priest/Shamans ability to bestow minor blessings upon the faithful, and I was thinking that having a similar do-hicky for a Master Craftsman might be usable. The trick would be to make the "blessings" permanent, rather than only for 24 hours.

 

There are other minor adjustments, like making the extra time longer and limiting the effect to a single item rather than 32, but the idea is the same, a minor VPP that can be used to instill increased abilities to a piece of armor or a weapon.

 

Thoughts?

 

Should work fine. The extra cost for 32 recipients would enable the continuing charge to have a duration of (if I calculate correctly) of 100 years for a single target - that's good enough for "permanent" in my book.

 

cheers, Mark

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

As the VPP is currently built, or even if the lockout is removed, wouldn't the VPP have a limit to the number of items the player could create (i.e. have active) at any given time? How would I work around that without handwavium?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Something like this:

Master Craftsman: Variable Power Pool (Smithing Pool), 5 base + 5 control cost, all slots 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Century (-0) (8 Active Points); all slots Extra Time (1 Week, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 1/2), IIF Bulky Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; Forge; -1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; [Weaponsmith] or [Armorsmith]; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4)

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Wouldn't a minor transform work well with what your doing? Or to keep it simple, why not make it a perk-perhaps 5pts call the perk: Master Craftsman and just allow then to create better armor.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Transform would certainly work better, I try so hard to avoid that power construct that I hadn't even thought of using it when it was actually appropriate.

 

As for the Perk, it would require the aforementioned handwavium which I want to avoid.

[Markdoc]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

As the VPP is currently built' date=' or even if the lockout is removed, wouldn't the VPP have a limit to the number of items the player could create (i.e. have active) at any given time? How would I work around that without handwavium?[/quote']

 

I don't believe so, no. Once the charge is used, it's used. The effect continues until the charge is used up, even if the points in the VPP are switched to something else.

 

cheers, Mark

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Bravo, thank you, sir

[Panpiper]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Actually I built a 'master craftsman' as one of many potential Kamarathin characters a little while back. The skill set on that character, distilled from the other cultural/language stuff was as follows:

 

3 PS: Lock Smith - Int.

3 PS: Armor Smith - Int.

3 PS: Weapon Smith - Int.

 

3 KS: Clockwork - Int.

3 KS: Lock Lore - Int.

3 KS: Trap Works - Int.

3 KS: Assess Value - Int.

 

3 Trading - Int.

3 Security Systems (Traps) - Int.

3 Lockpicking - Int.

 

4 Armorsmith (Mail, Plate & Shields) 13-

4 Weaponsmith (Axes And Picks, Maces And Hammers, Swords And Daggers) 13-

 

For a master craftsman such as you describe perhaps a couple of other knowledge skills such as in Metallurgy and 'tricks of the forge' would do the trick and then, I agree with the perk approach, add a perk.

 

To build regular non-magical equipment, even unusually good quality equipment, does not take 'magic'. It takes knowing how to use your tools and how to process your materials. It is skill and knowledge, not magic. If you want it to be a magic skill, why then do not regular armor smiths need a magic skill to make resistant plate?

 

It is far more reasonable to me to surmise that a master craftsman knows the secret 'trick' of folding metal. Rather than simply take a red hot ingot and beat it into shape, they take that same ingot, beat it into a length and then fold it over. They then do it again for a total or ten or more folds. Each time they do this they double the number of 'layers' in the metal, so ten folds will result in a thousand layers. This has the effect of eliminating any flaws in the metal structure, and of configuring it to be of extraordinary flexibility and resiliency. This is how the fabled samurai swords were made. This is the secret of Damascus steel. There is no magic involved, but the quality of their product is clearly superior. And it not much of a stretch to assert that the same process can be used for armor as well. It would just be 'really expensive' armor.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Magic was never a part of the discussion, the VPP/Transform items in the prior posts would represent such 'tricks' as you mention in the last two paragraphs. I'd absolutely mandate metallurgy as well.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

So, I'm happy with the VPP, I think. I can use that as the "holder" representation of the master Craftsman and his ability to create objects of superior quality over teh normal craftsmen. Then I can have the player develop "recipes/techniques" that they can place inside the VPP, much like an Atharian mage purchases/acquires/develops spells. Add in a bunch of supporting skills to represent the science and normal skills of the Master Craftsman and I think I'll achieve what I intended.

 

Thank you all for your help on this.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

One more thought. How about giving them some skill levels to offset any negative penalties ? You mentioned a hard 13-, so any negative skill modifer is going to be significant. I can see a Master Crasftsman at least having a +2 to offset certain penalties, like perhaps time. I know when ever I do a home improvement project, I always have to multiply the time my book recomends by 3, even then its a battle.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

The Skill Maxima isn't a hard stop at 13-, it works similar to Characteristic maxima and just makes going beyond 13- more expensive. I limit skill levels as much as I can because of the Skill maxima setup. I instilled that limit so that improving the skill beyond 13- is a dedicated choice that you want to spend those points on, by allowing too many skill levels you allow a way to circumvent the "restriction".

 

Taking extra time gives its own bonuses, so that's one method to add to it. Utilizing superior equipment and materials will also add to the skill. My vision of a master craftsman is someone that dedicated an extensive amount of time and effort (translation: points) into their profession, leaving little time for other pursuits. I want to avoid the "Master Craftsman/Super warrior" characters or other such combination's for starting characters.

[Beast]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

here is what I would suggest as a list of skills for the master weapon and armorsmith

Armorsmith

Analyze workmanship

PS Taylor

PS Leather crafting

PS Artist

Mechanic

SS metalurgy

Weapons fam

Weapon Smith

[lensman]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Hello all,

 

One of the duchies within the Kingdom of Tursh is well known for their skilled weapon/armorsmiths. PC's have the option to purchase a "Sanneth made weapon/armor" and for the the additional price they get the following:

 

Now, the skill these smiths have come from a long tradition of forging and crafting techniques that are handed down from Master to Apprentice and so on. I had never intended for a PC to develop the skills necessary to craft at this level, explaining it away as a lifetime of training and experience, etc etc

 

But recently I've been approached by GM's and Players alike who have shown interest in having a PC with the ability to manufacture equipment at such a skill level.

 

I have no idea how to properly build a skill package around this and how to show, mechanically, how a PC gives a manufactured item the above bonuses. So I turn to Herodome for support.

 

I am looking to build a Master Craftsman package that has all of the skills necessary to be a weaponsmith/armorsmith of this caliber and, if possible, a build that would bestow the above bonuses to a manufactured item. I run skill heavy games so I'm not shy of what many GM's would consider superfluous skills and I utilize a Skill Maxima of 13-.

 

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

 

I offer the idea that no VPP, Transform or other Power is required. Those powers I reserve for making weapons from 'nothing' or 'summoning' weapons

 

My answer to the question is found in skills. TUS 352 pg. has good options for this including the Weaponsmithing(Musscle-Powered) Table

In addition to the direction Beast took in his post I wouild create a Master Craftsman 3/2 Custom skill in addition to Weaponsmithing, which could be restricted to Package Deals only found in the culture you slect.

 

Then it is a simple matter of assigning extra Dc's or adv. or Skill levels or other powers a difficulty minus to the Master Craftsman skill and done.

 

This I use in my Heroic campaigns and can also be applied to Armorsmith. Making weapons is already a no Power event, why use powers when skills fit beter?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

I'll check out the Ultimate Skill, but at this point utilizing skills requires handwavium while utilizing the powers has a solid, in-game mechanic that represents what can or cannot be done. So I have the skills for the mundane stuff and utilize the VPP build for the extraordinary items.

[Markdoc]

Re: Expert Craftsman

 

Yep. I've never been fond of trying to build powers with skills myself. Not only does it requires mule-loads of handwavium, but it's an invitation to abuse and opens up vast logical gaps, which the GM needs to then work on closing. Far better (and far less work) IMO to simply use powers to build powers.

 

cheers, Mark