Heroes TV show regeneration

[Phil]

I'm slowly revisiting series (sorry, "season") 1 of Heroes, and have noticed that any character who has the regeneration power seems to get hurt inordinately often! Far, far more than one would think is coincidental. It's easy enough to model for a single character with Regen - just buy down BOD and PD. But when it also strikes characters like Peter Petrelli who absorb the regeneration power, that complicates things slightly.

 

So I was wondering how to model this. Two options that immediately spring to mind are Side Effect, or simply creating a Unified Power out of a combination of Regen and Negative BOD.

 

Thoughts?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I dont think I would go with the negative BODY idea. I think I might look for some unluck associated with the power or perhaps a triggered NCC NND KA (1/2D6 no stun) that kicks in whenever the character is in a situation where they might possibly take damage. Side effects would handle this quite readily I think.

 

That way you get blood on a regular basis that miraculously abates...

[tarragon]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

It's all dramatic license. A game is different than TV. There are a few in story reasons why this happens: the character who regenerates can only show off their ability if they get hurt in the first place, generally the other characters have some other way to avoid the damage, the regenerating character knows they regenerate and doesn't do as much to avoid the damage, finally it's more dramatic but not as interesting to watch a character who doesn't regenerate get hurt.

 

Depending on the game I would do one of several things or combination of these. Either just let the characters who regenerate take more chances or trade regen for defenses either DCV or PD/ED. I might also give the regening character a physical disad of clumsy to represent the lesser care they take with their own body.

[Phil]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

It's all dramatic license. A game is different than TV.

 

Which is the easy way out of course! But if you don't want your game to be different from TV, the Hero System should let you model it.

 

Either just let the characters who regenerate take more chances or trade regen for defenses either DCV or PD/ED. I might also give the regening character a physical disad of clumsy to represent the lesser care they take with their own body.

Not sure I understand your comment on trading regen for defences? Similarly, the physical disad of clumsy might cause someone to stumble more often, but doesn't necessarily lead to the game mechnical effect required.

[Naanomi]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I would say that someone with Regeneration gets used to not having to dodge attacks... their DCV goes down. Also, their 'defenses' are bought as super-fast regeneration, instead of the ubiquitous 'combat luck' that permeates the rest of the series. Same effect (not getting significant injuries), different appearance.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Or it could be the SFX of their defences. If you have really high rPD but whenever people hit you it looks as though you heal the damage really quickly! Or would that be SFX lying again?

 

Doc

[Phil]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Or it could be the SFX of their defences. If you have really high rPD but whenever people hit you it looks as though you heal the damage really quickly! Or would that be SFX lying again?

Normally, I'd agree - it could be that. However, the short-term discomfort exhibited suggests it isn't the case. It really does almost seem like the flipside of having regeneration is that you suffer with brittle bones!

[sinanju]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Or it could be the SFX of their defences. If you have really high rPD but whenever people hit you it looks as though you heal the damage really quickly! Or would that be SFX lying again?

 

Doc

 

That's pretty much the whole schtick for one of my characters--Victor Kruger, the Black Knight. He named himself after the John Cleese character in Monty Python & the Holy Grail because, like that character, he takes lots of damage...although unlike the Cleese character, he heals almost faster than he's injured.

 

I built him with 3/4 Damage reduction, low resistant defenses, and lots of regeneration. The SFX is he takes ALL the damage, it's just that most of it regenerates so fast that it has no game effect (except to make him look like an extra from a zombie flick). What little does penetrate his defenses heals very quickly. Wolverine, Claire Bennett and company only WISH they healed as fast as Victor.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Or it could be the SFX of their defences. If you have really high rPD but whenever people hit you it looks as though you heal the damage really quickly! Or would that be SFX lying again?

 

Doc

 

 

I'd say this does not need modeling: buy regeneration and a decent GM will find reasons for you to need it - i.e. it is storytelling. You could 'justify' it by saying that people with regen care less about getting hurt so get hurt more - but I wouldn't bother: if someone has LS: Self contained breathing they'll find themselves in situations where not needing to breathe is useful more than people who do not have it - it is part of the job of the GM to showcase PC abilities.

 

If you are desperate to model it with points, a complication will do: unluck - always getting injured - or even a Physical Limitation - more than likely the first one shot at.

 

But I wouldn't.

[Susano]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I think the regenerator always getting hurt ranks up there with the brick always getting hit. Claire is always getting hurt/killed in Heroes, just like Colossus was the one to usually get hit with the mega-attack in X-men. Why? Because those characters can 'take' it. As stated, it's a story-telling thing and not something I think is going to be a requirement in a FTF game... not unless you fell the need to constantly remind everyone at the table that "hey! Character A has regen!"

[Naanomi]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I agree that part of it is just storytelling, but Clair has shown an increasing reduction in her DCV... she barely cares to dodge attacks anymore. Part of that is for the bonuses on PRE attacks maybe...

 

Besides, at her level of regeneration, it wouldn't be point effective to buy it all as the actual regeneration power... some of it is another defensive power of some kind.

[Panpiper]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Besides' date=' at her level of regeneration, it wouldn't be point effective to buy it all as the actual regeneration power... some of it is another defensive power of some kind.[/quote']

She's obviously got a load of regeneration, likely enough to give her one body per action phase (along with heals limbs and resurrection). She however also has a significant amount of regular 'resistant protection' that has as a 'special effect only' that the damage is actually done, but it heals so fast it is 'as if' she had resistant protection.

 

As for the "any character who has the regeneration power seems to get hurt inordinately often", that is purely dramatic license on the part of the writers, and very much overdone in my opinion. There is absolutely no need to force such a thing upon a player who wants regeneration, unless they actually 'want' to take unluck (or some such) as a complication.

[Fedifensor]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

She's obviously got a load of regeneration' date=' likely enough to give her one body per action phase (along with heals limbs and resurrection). She however also has a significant amount of regular 'resistant protection' that has as a 'special effect only' that the damage is actually done, but it heals so fast it is 'as if' she had resistant protection.[/quote']

Her most impressive regeneration was after the house fire in Season 1. Wolverine wishes he could heal that fast.

 

Her tendency to get injured was addressed later in the show, when she was talking about not feeling anything. It's an idea later dropped by the writers, though she definitely has a reduced sensitivity to pain. That, combined with the ability to heal from any injury, can explain why she gets injured more often than a normal person. There's no threat of pain or permanent injury to cause her to be careful.

[Phil]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Her tendency to get injured was addressed later in the show' date=' when she was talking about not feeling anything. It's an idea later dropped by the writers, though she definitely has a reduced sensitivity to pain. That, combined with the ability to heal from any injury, can explain why she gets injured more often than a normal person. There's no threat of pain or permanent injury to cause her to be careful.[/quote']

 

I'm feeling like people are picking up on the wrong angle here, though. Clearly, in the TV programme people with regen get injured more often so that they can use regen. That's a given. What I'm interested in was *how* you might model this as a game mechanical effect, not *whether* it is a game mechanical effect! Besides, I think it's an interesting quirk to put onto a character with regeneration as their main "defence"; an easy to kill, but unstopabble hero

[Susano]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I'm feeling like people are picking up on the wrong angle here' date=' though. Clearly, in the TV programme people with regen get injured more often so that they can use regen. That's a given. What I'm interested in was *how* you might model this as a game mechanical effect, not *whether* it is a game mechanical effect! Besides, I think it's an interesting quirk to put onto a character with regeneration as their main "defence"; an easy to kill, but unstopabble hero[/quote']

 

Unluck, only to get injured. Making it a Side Effect would technically lower the cost of the Regen, which has the bizarre effect of making a useful power cheaper since you'd now use it more often (on the other hand, you'd be getting hurt a lot more and often at odd times). Making it a Complication would result in the character having a few dice of Unluck the GM could invoke at awkward times.

[Phil]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

Does Unluck operate differently in 6E? I've always been a bit uncomfortable with it, because of its non-effect based mechanic that doesn't do anything specific. It's fine for a roleplaying schtick, but doesn't fit comfortably into a power construction to me (unless it's unluck linked to a specific side effect?)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I'm feeling like people are picking up on the wrong angle here' date=' though. Clearly, in the TV programme people with regen get injured more often so that they can use regen. That's a given. What I'm interested in was *how* you might model this as a game mechanical effect, not *whether* it is a game mechanical effect! Besides, I think it's an interesting quirk to put onto a character with regeneration as their main "defence"; an easy to kill, but unstopabble hero[/quote']

 

 

Well, I've suggested a couple of complications. I often define unluck as a specific sfx i.e. in this case unluck would translate to your getting injured more than you normally would. (I also, incidentally, define Luck as having certain sfx, or areas of influence, so I might have Luck that works to mean I often find a useful source of information, for example, but that luck usually has little or no direct influence on combat.)

 

If you are uncomfortable with that, how about something like this: you think you ought to get hit more, reduce your 'defence' to getting hit

 

Multipower 10 points:

 

SLOT 1 +2 DCV

SLOT 2 +10m KB Resistance

 

Buy a lower DCV than normal, by 2 points: you can then chose to try and avoid the damage (by using SLOT 1 and increasing DCV) or standing and taking it, letting your REGEN cope with the trauma, and avoiding getting thrown across the room because the bulk of the force just blew a hole through you.

 

You can substitute something else for KBR if you like, but it sounds reasonable enough for what you are after - presumably there has to be some upside to taking the hit rather than avoiding it. If you don't even want this level of complexity, simply buy DCV down, then you'll get hit more.

 

Simples.

[Panpiper]

Re: Heroes TV show regeneration

 

I've got a character build I built a bit before this thread actually, who has a troll like regeneration and resistance to damage. The (5th Ed.) powers were built thusly:

 

7 Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (20 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

 

2 "Tough Skin": Armor (1 PD/1 ED); Limited Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Does not stack with armor; -1/2)

 

12 "Heroic Toughness": Armor (8 PD/8 ED) (24 Active Points); Limited Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only stops half the body of an attack, up to 8 body.; -1/2), Limited Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Does not stack with armor; -1/2)

 

20 Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50%; Limited Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Does not stack with armor; -1/2)

 

 

Now for a full 'Heroes' level regeneration, that should be three or four levels of 'healing', or enough for one per actual phase on the part of the character, plus 'heals limbs' and 'resurrection' (which would bump the healing to 40 real points for a 3 speed). And the limitation on the "Heroic Toughness" of 'Does not stack with armor' is frankly gratuitous for point reduction (also however to keep this character from ever donning armor, which would make him way over powered).

 

His DCV is in fact quite low, the lowest I've ever built for a PC class character. A zero point normal could actually hit him reasonably often without needing extra skill levels. This in fact had nothing to do with wanting him to get hit more often for 'Heroes' dramatic flavor, but rather it was simply right for the character conception. And as a GM, I would not allow this level of 'regeneration/defense' on a starting (fantasy) character that could fight at the same level of competence of my more normal PC builds.

 

The effect of this grouping of powers is that every fourth body damage from a killing attack will inflict a body. This can be a problem if the character gets surrounded by a horde of normals wielding farm implements who go to town on him. If he gets hit two or three times a phase, even with 1D6 weapons, (actually if he gets surrounded, due to multiple attackers and rear attacks, he is likely to get hit six times per phase) he runs a serious risk of going down. A more regular PC build would be wearing chainmail or plate (or have equivalent defense), would be 'much' harder for a mob of peasants to hit, and might even have defense maneuver, such that this mob would pose little threat, in fact their weapons would bounce off the plate defense doing no damage.

 

The upside for this character is that no 'regular' PC could take the upper level of damage this character could. This character could literally get hit by a tank gun, and get back up.