Talk to me about: Haymaker

[The Suave]

Haymaker is one of those combat maneuvers that I understand the mechanics of, but not the effectiveness of. So, talk to me about Haymaker. What do you think about it? When and where have you used it to great (or faltering) effectiveness? What have you seen done with it that was surprising (good or bad)?

 

Or just type up a scenario where haymaker is used and isn't aborted or moved away from.

[Panpiper]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

The team is engaged with the boss super villain, the henchmen are all down. Through extraordinary skill and good luck, the team has managed to stun the boss! The brick winds up with a Haymaker. The boss can't abort if he's stunned.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

If you have the drop on your opponent(s) then this is the no-brainer maneuver for mentalists specifically and ranged combatants in general...

 

The upside is pretty simple to grasp, it's 20 active points of pure damage (assuming that your base damage is enough to inflict even 1 point of damage)

 

The downside is considerable. It takes an extra segment to land, which gives an unfettered opponent ample opportunity to void the attack by moving (if HtH) or getting out of range/LoS (if ranged). Additionally, your DCV goes in the tank for the duration.

 

So to get any mileage out of this maneuver, you need to figure out how to not pay dearly for the upside. You need to use this when you don't expect to get hit. You need to use this when your opponent doesn't expect to get hit. You need to use this when your opponent can't screw it up by moving (or drilling you).

[The Suave]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

Panpiper: This here is the type of scenario that makes Haymaker very effective that I had no previously considered (why I hadn't, I don't know). I like it!

[Markdoc]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

For Bricks I've always been fond of it when you've actually already grabbed your opponent. Think of it as the "lift him over your head and then swing him really, really fast down onto something hard.". If you already got' em, they're not getting away.

 

Alternately, hold your action and then let 'em have it just after they've attacked you. No aborting to nuthin' when they've just acted.

 

cheers, Mark

[Panpiper]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

I got hit with a haymaker once, for real, real life, in reality. So haymakers do really work, given the right circumstances.

 

I was at a community center event, a dance, back when I was 17. A friend of mine was being one of the doormen and had to take a leak. He asked me if I could watch his post for a few minutes. "No problem," says I. Off he goes, a goodly distance down the hall, and he's gone. I lounge at the door side for maybe all of thirty seconds when all of a sudden a huge crowd of people come boiling out of the dance hall. The front hall where I was rapidly filled with people leaving the dance area. I stand there quite stunned by my perplexity.

 

Then the reason for their egress comes charging out of the dance hall, a drunk to high heaven, 250 pound football player swinging wildly at anyone nearby. He charges into the crowd and keeps swinging his wild haymakers. The crowd of course keeps their distance, but there are so many of them that I cannot see the drunk, I just know where he is by the state of the crowd. All this happens in a matter of seconds. Then it dawns on me that my friend being the bouncer, and me having 'replaced' him for the moment, it is technically 'my' job to deal with this drunk.

 

So off I go, wading into the crowd, my hands separating people as I step through them, leading with my chin. And of course the crowd parts at exactly the correct moment, with me in exactly the right spot, chin out, to see a haymaker flying right at me and catch me square on the jaw!

 

Very fortunately for the state of my jaw and possibly neck, I had had several years of rather intense martial arts training by that point, and my physical conditioning and dexterity was such that I was literally being trained with an eye to the Olympics in gymnastics. So physically my stats (at that time) were probably in the agent category for that situation. And so I was able to abort to a 'roll with the blow'. I distinctly recall the room spinning twice under the impact. (Actually the spin was my roll, but that was how intensely I had to roll to counter the impact.) I landed in stance, the drunk having now stopped, and the two of us stared at each other for a brief second.

 

And then the two of us got jumped by a half dozen other bouncers that I did not know were present, and that was the end of the situation.

 

So haymakers can indeed connect. And 'roll with the blow' really does work as well.

[Beast]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

it has been pretty much pointed out when to use it

also if the end cost is not a factor(needing it later for something else)you should also think about pushing

for the cost of 10 end you get another 10 active points of damage

combined that is 30 active you can throw on to your attack

[megaplayboy]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

pushing and haymakering mental powers makes them vastly more effective(12d6 of MC/MI becomes 18d6, enough to achieve a +30 effect, with a -4 breakout, while a 6d6 mind blast becomes a 9d6 mind blast, enough to stun even a brick). pushing and haymakering flashes and entangles(if possible) also tends to yield impressive results. pushing and haymakering punches and blasts tends to stun or KO the target. The best times to do this:

1. opponent immobilized temporarily

2. opponent has already acted and would have to abort to dive for cover in order to avoid it

3. opponent is haymakering someone else and is locked in for their own attack

4. opponent is stationary and unaware of the impending attack

 

I kinda like the idea of a teammate putting up a force wall around you and your target while you HM.

[The Suave]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

The main problem that I saw with it was the fact that it takes place at the end of the NEXT segment, so even if the mook has already acted on the phase when you are throwing the haymaker (say segment 3), then on segment 4, before the haymaker connects, he can abort to a dodge or block maneuver.

 

Only doing it when they are stunned is a great way to get around that though, and one that I hadn't though. I'm mostly involved in Fantasy or Dark Champions games, and I just saw very little use for the maneuver, now my eyes are at least squinted, if not opened.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

Inanimate objects like doors, walls and parked vehicles can't get out of the way, either.

[Utech]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

Grab bad guy (your choice: Brick character, Martial Artist, TK, etc.) and everyone gathers 'round for a Haymaker fest.

 

Entangle bad guy (your choice: Takes No Damage From Attacks or simply a low level Entangle only meant to immobilize someone for a second -- 1d6 AOE can be nasty) and everyone gathers 'round for a Haymaker fest.

 

Invisibility and/or great Stealth roll = Haymaker time!

 

Blinded bad guy (your choice: Flash, Darkness that your heroes can see through, etc.) and everyone gathers 'round for a Haymaker fest.

[casualplayer]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

Legsweeps and Throws set people up for Haymakers quite nicely also.

[lemming]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

Yea, we actually had the Brick Code. If wound up on, you would wind up back if the haymaker landed on the same segment.

 

We also had the option of converting a haymaker to a punch if target was going to move. You did non-haymakered damage and kept the CV penalties. It worked for us.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Talk to me about: Haymaker

 

It is far harder to get out of the way of a ranged atatck - you may not even know someone is winding up for a haymaker.

 

Also if fighting a single villain, go for the haymaker: single villains are usually powerful - but if you keep haymakering and they keep aborting, they can't get any attacks in.