SSgt Baloo Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Imagine a character with a superpower. Now imagine just how lame that power could be. Now imagine how, with a little tweaking, that simple power could be done better. Example: Ratboy has the ability to summon apathetic rats. Summon: rats. Improved Ratboy has the ability to summon rats to do his bidding. Telekinesis (some small amount) with fine manipulation. AND Change environment (clean up, etc.) AND + skill levels to find things (the rats look for it then report back) ETC. I always had a hard time separating powers and SFX, and I think we (I and others like me ) need some brainstorming to provide answers to questions we don't know (or don't know how) to ask. Those who can, please give examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Funny you should use that example. I'm creating a character with the ability to summon packs or rats. They provide him such powers as Tunneling, Clairsentience, and Armor. (How creepy would a cloak of rats be?) One I've always thought was lame was Angel of the early X-Men. He's got wings. Yippety-skippity. "I got this cool idea for a character. He's got wings, so he can fly." "And?" "... and he can glide." "And?" "... okay, I got nothin'." Granted a little creative use of powers and environment, and you've got a limited range Wing-Flap attack, Change Environment (kicking up dust), maybe even... okay, I still got nothin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Reminds me of the thread where we were building powers for a homeless guy in NYC who could control pigeons... As far as wing strikes go... have you ever been buzzed by a largish bird, had him smack you in the face with a wing? It was a goose for me. Ouch!Bird wings are solid muscle under those feathers, and the feathers provide little padding. Now scale that up from a 40ish lb. bird to a 160 lb. person. That's not a linear scaling, either, that's logarithmical. Ka-pow! For lame powers, look at Aquaman. Controls sea creatures. Whoop-tee-doo. To make it cool... just remember Chtulu is a sea creature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? I am the mighty toad. I've got a 6" leap and 4 hex stretching with my tongue which by the way has clinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? One I've always thought was lame was Angel of the early X-Men. He's got wings. Yippety-skippity. "I got this cool idea for a character. He's got wings, so he can fly." "And?" "... and he can glide." "And?" "... okay, I got nothin'." Granted a little creative use of powers and environment, and you've got a limited range Wing-Flap attack, Change Environment (kicking up dust), maybe even... okay, I still got nothin'. He's also got good eyesight, makes a good scout, good fighter, agile, is rich and gets babes. It makes a big difference when he's the only one on the team that can fly. Angel on a team with Cyclops, Iceman, Beast and Marvel Girl? Very handy. On a team with Storm and Rogue? Not as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Prehensile hair is a good example--"I can make my hair move." "So?" "Did I mention I can extend it 20 feet, throw cars, tie up bad guys, choke people, and use it as a shield?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Hero System Bestiary - Swarms p.?? Hmmm... to many ideas 1pt RKA, Indirect, Area Effect Hex, Autofire, Penetrating, Continuous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Wasn't there a character from DC's Legion of Substitute Heroes who could cause things to change color? Sounds pretty lame, doesn't it? Now extend that ability to mixing colors, shades, and patterns. Suddenly you have a master of camoflage. He wouldn't even need to change his own skin color -- just wear a full body suit. Make his ability work on discreet portions of an object and in fine detail, and he could turn the lenses of an opponent's eyes solid white and opaque to light. Lost in the Arctic and out of water? Turn a patch of snow black and watch the sun liquefy it. If his power worked on a large scale, that could melt a frozen river to prevent pursuers from following him across it. Or conversely, make open earth or grass metallic white to blind those pursuers with reflected glare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? I am the mighty toad. I've got a 6" leap and 4 hex stretching with my tongue which by the way has clinging. How do they have time to do any hero work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Funny you should use that example. I'm creating a character with the ability to summon packs or rats. They provide him such powers as Tunneling, Clairsentience, and Armor. (How creepy would a cloak of rats be?) From the description if you wanted to add some creep factor might do some Presence for Pre attacks only for when he summons his rodent hoards then do a second Pre in the same way Linked to armor: Cloak of Rats. No one wants to get near that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Reminds me of the thread where we were building powers for a homeless guy in NYC who could control pigeons... As far as wing strikes go... have you ever been buzzed by a largish bird, had him smack you in the face with a wing? It was a goose for me. Ouch!Bird wings are solid muscle under those feathers, and the feathers provide little padding. Now scale that up from a 40ish lb. bird to a 160 lb. person. That's not a linear scaling, either, that's logarithmical. Ka-pow! Humans have had arms and legs broken by wing-strikes from angry swans. A normal-sized human with wings to scale (more than 6' long -- much larger if you require "realistic" lifting capacity) could break a man's spine. Not to mention perform quite a Sweep Maneuver on multiple targets. For lame powers, look at Aquaman. Controls sea creatures. Whoop-tee-doo. To make it cool... just remember Chtulu is a sea creature. As are sharks, whales, and giant squids. Aquaman is one of those "environment based" supers; limited on land, devastating under water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? From Lame to Awesome I think Bionic Commando has some room to shine here. Basic premise: Robotic Claw: Stretching: Only one arm. Expanding on the basic idea we also get: Swinging, Claw out swing across retract claw. Enhanced Strength, it's a robot hand, nuff said. Limited Armor, using the robotic arm to block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? For lame powers, look at Aquaman. Controls sea creatures. Whoop-tee-doo. To make it cool... just remember Chtulu is a sea creature. Okay, and for my inner geek statement Cthulhu is not a sea creature disputed what later publications said. If he was why would it be imprisoned under water and need others to free it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Re summoning rats: check out either version of the movie Willard, if you want to see how useful, dangerous, and terrifying an army of obedient rats can be. Or any large swarm of small creatures -- ants, bees, birds (Hitchcock anyone?) Single big beasts can be powerful and scary, but you only have one thing to take down. Oncoming hordes of little beasts that are effectively unkillable and immune to fear are arguably even scarier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? In the past, most of the time my ability to come up with a "cool" character was limited by my experience with some other RPG. It really wasn't until I started hanging out at the Hero forums that I started to "get" "Reasoning from effect". Previously, I had an idea of how a power should work that wasn't in step with the Hero System way of doing things. F'rinstance, my first speedster character was built with a speed of 12, Dex of 30, martial arts, and that was about all I had points for. Not understanding how to utilize the hero system to do things, means you often try to get the power you think should do what you want rather than starting from the other end of the process (what you want to happen when you use a power) and then figure out what combination of powers, advantages, limitations, etc., is necessary to make the power do what you wanted in the first place. The point of this exercise is for every "lame" example, someone needs to get creative and give examples of how to de-lame-inate the lame version of the power. More examples: Lame: "I have Super-hearing." (Loads of pluses to hearing perception rolls). Awesome: Danger sense. (Now he can filter out all that background noise and hear cries of alarm, gunshots, flames crackling, etc.) Lame: "Super speed" (Lots and lots of SPD) Awesome: "I can wash a car in seconds." (Cosmetic transform, change environment, SFX: "I washed the car".) Awesome: "I run to Hong Kong for takeout." (transform: nothing into food, SFX: "I ran to Hong Kong for Takeout and came back in just a phase or two".) Awesome: "I dodge bullets, etc." (Missile deflection or force field or armor. SFX: I dodged the bullets, rolled with the "punch", etc.) Lame: "I talk to fish." (Whoopie.) Awesome: "I can rescue a sinking ship with the aid of sea creatures!" Telekinesis, megascale, 1hex radius, only to prevent things from sinking/people from drowning. SFX: "I summon whales, porpoises, tuna, etc. to push up on anything in the affected area to keep it from going under." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odraude Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: I can talk to the dead. Awesome: I can summon them and create a maelstrom of terror and pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: I can talk to the dead. Awesome: I can summon them and create a maelstrom of terror and pain! I like to call that Tuesdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkham Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Funny you should use that example. I'm creating a character with the ability to summon packs or rats. They provide him such powers as Tunneling, Clairsentience, and Armor. (How creepy would a cloak of rats be?) I've got something similar, except its Crows ( and related birds ). Lame: I can see through the eyes of crows, and direct them. Awesome: I can simultaneously see every outdoor location in the city through the eyes of crows (+20 telescopic, 360deg, N-Ray, x1000 rapid). And in combat whole murders of crows will follow my commands. ( CE, or AoE EB ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: I can eat anything. Awesome:...including breakable foci and immeasurably powerful plot devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: people really like me and think I'm swell. Awesome: lots of people really like me and think I'm super-awesome, and tend to do things for me like give me things, protect me and beat up people who don't like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: I can talk to ghosts. Awesome: I can talk to ghosts of the unjustly killed, and put them inside their killer's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: I can eat anything. Awesome:...including breakable foci and immeasurably powerful plot devices. Lame: people really like me and think I'm swell. Awesome: lots of people really like me and think I'm super-awesome, and tend to do things for me like give me things, protect me and beat up people who don't like me. Lame: I can talk to ghosts. Awesome: I can talk to ghosts of the unjustly killed, and put them inside their killer's head. Almost. What Hero system powers, skills, or talents might you suggest to get the described awesome effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Almost. What Hero system powers' date=' skills, or talents might you suggest to get the described awesome effect?[/quote'] 1st one is LS: Immunity to poison, 1d6 HKA double penetrating, and a linked Drain vs any one focused ability at a time. 2nd one is extra PRE, MC based on PRE(probably cumulative), some stock followers and contacts, and a Summon Local Admirers power. Possibly a Mental Paralysis based on PRE against resistant enemies, to make them hesitate about attacking them. 3rd one is Detect Spirit, sense, discrim, analyze, Summon Ghost, Mental Attack or Mental Illusions for siccing the ghosts on their killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? More for "lame fish-talking guy": Lame: "I talk to fish." (Whoopie.) Awesome: "My fishy minions keep me informed on important goings-on in the oceans" (Danger sense, worldwide, only stuff happening in/on the oceans and seas of the world.) Awesome: "I can summon whales and other huge denizens of the sea to attack my enemies!" (Telekinesis or EB, area effect, selective target or autofire or whatever else might fit the description.) Lame: I turn into living fire. Awesome: "I can fly." (flight: sfx = he turns into fire and flies around.) Awesome: "I can burn things." (RKA< EB, etc.) Awesome: "I can absorb fires and put them out." (Okay, this one stumps me. Most GMs don't stat out fires in any detail since it's an "environment" and not strictly a power, so drains and suppresses might not work, depending. What powers would YOU suggest specifically for firefighting?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timfnj Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Re: Lame or awesome? Lame: I can talk to the dead. Awesome: I can summon them and create a maelstrom of terror and pain! we have a character in our game with the same power. She calls herself a "Post-mortem Interrorgation Specialist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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