Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Blasting through rock and walls and doors? Why do you think I'm packing the PE4 and detcord?

 

And there's nowt wrong with the ergonomics or aesthetics of the MP7, even with the 40 round mag.

 

Over-compensating just a tad, aren't we?

[Nyrath]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

No, I haven't; and I am sure it is.

 

One could also ask that if Hand-Phasers are expensive things to represent in HERO system points, then where does that leave (for example) 'Constitution' class Starships?

Well a starship is a vehicle, they have slightly different rules.

The thing that makes a phaser so expensive is the fact they are multipowers, that is, they are "dial-a-guns"

 

I seem to recall somebody making a phaser in the Hero system, and it was zillions of points.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Over-compensating just a tad' date=' aren't we? [/quote']

 

Well, the MP7 isn't a dial-a-gun which costs ~ 1bn points, so the PE4 and detcord become necessary.

 

And no, I'm not overcompensating for anything.

[BlackSword]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Phasers are pansy weapons anyway. Gimme a tricked-out suppressed MP7 and a baker's dozen 40rd mags' date=' two kilos PE4 and a roll of detcord with fuses, blasting caps, etc, a couple of Claymore AP mines and half a dozen HE grenades. Oh yeah, and a H&K P7M8 and four mags for back-up.[/quote']

So for 20+ lbs of equipment you can duplicate the effects of a single 1kg weapon?

[Kristopher]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

So for 20+ lbs of equipment you can duplicate the effects of a single 1kg weapon?

 

On the plus side, if you use your bomb as a bomb, you don't lose your gun.

 

If you use your gun as a bomb, you no longer have a gun.

[Shaft]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

have you ever tried making a phaser in the Heroes system? Very very expensive

 

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1883213&postcount=9

[BlackSword]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

On the plus side, if you use your bomb as a bomb, you don't lose your gun.

 

If you use your gun as a bomb, you no longer have a gun.

And an MP7 can't be set to 'stun.'

[Yansuf]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Let's all remember that the writers of these shows generally not only had NO knowledge of the military, but were from a group that took their lack of knowledge as a badge of honor.

[Kristopher]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Let's all remember that the writers of these shows generally not only had NO knowledge of the military' date=' but were from a group that took their lack of knowledge as a badge of honor.[/quote']

 

There is that, in the general sense.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

And of course, StarFleet personnel are not trained in weapon retention techniques. The selection and training process is, as near as I can tell, a case of "Here's your phaser, here's your tricorder, here's how they work. Congratulations, you're now a StarFleet member."

 

Yes, I know StarFleet isn't primarily a military organization, but if it has peacekeeping and police actions as official parts of its duties, its members ought to have the required training to reflect this. And if it's supposed to be a 24th Century version of the US Navy, where are the Marines, who would have the proper training?

 

At least TOS phasers looked like pistols. The phasers from TNG onward looked like dustbusters and had no intimidation factor. Plus' date=' SF personnel really do need training in proper SWAT and unarmed combat techniques. Eg: in [i']The Doomsday Machine[/i], there's no way an old, fat, out-of-condition Commodore Decker should have been able to take a much younger, fitter, more recently-trained security guard (who should have just stunned Decker with his phaser). And is the ST:VOY episode The Raven, Tuvok and his team are shown walking calmly towards a place they needed to get to at once. Why didn't they just use the internal transporters?

 

Blasting through rock and walls and doors? Why do you think I'm packing the PE4 and detcord?

 

And there's nowt wrong with the ergonomics or aesthetics of the MP7, even with the 40 round mag.

 

I think the writers went out of their way to downplay the military angle in ST:TNG and its decendants, so everyone seemed vaguely inept in these matters when viewed from an objective position. Even the "war" in DS9 struck me as sort of half-baked.

 

TOS was a little better at those things sometimes: when the budget and talent of the stuntpeople allowed. At least Kirk acknowledged that force was a viable, and useful, option without a lot of angst.

 

No, I haven't; and I am sure it is.

 

One could also ask that if Hand-Phasers are expensive things to represent in HERO system points, then where does that leave (for example) 'Constitution' class Starships? Or any of the ships from the other shows? I, for one, really don't fancy trying to crunch the numbers for SG's 'Atlantis', for one. So, are PCs required to "buy" whichever starship / other thingummy they are assigned to?

 

Things like Phasers and Tricorders (and Starships) are standard Star Fleet equipment, issued or "loaned" to Star Fleet personnel (ie. Characters with the UFPSF "package deal", whatever that may comprise) as necessary. If PCs want to have fancy non-standard gear as well, fine, but (IMO) they have to pay extra for them. A similar basis would exist for some elements of the other universes as well.

 

So for 20+ lbs of equipment you can duplicate the effects of a single 1kg weapon?

 

Yes. Phasers are that useful.

 

I think what I would do is seperate out the character from his/her equipment. I would use heroic build rules and steal the equipment allowance rules from Dark Champions. I think this would neatly tie starting equipment to its active cost at the outset. Now, it would be up to the GM (I guess me) to keep the uber-tech from wrecking the game after it got started.

[csyphrett]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

I think some of the equipment can be handwaved depending on the mission. Does a red shirt really need access to the Enterprise while infiltrating a death stick smuggling ring with his tokra counterpart?

 

Of course giving Scotty, or Carter, a sonic screwdriver would be enough of an edge over anybody, or anything.

 

CES

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

And there's nowt wrong with the ergonomics or aesthetics of the MP7' date=' even with the 40 round mag.[/quote']

 

Except that, if you try to hide this in your pants, it just looks WRONG.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

If you use your gun as a bomb' date=' you no longer have a gun.[/quote']

 

But then, if done skillfully, the guy(s) you use it on will no longer be a problem.

 

Therefore, no (immediate) need for the gun. Get out your back-up piece, if necessary.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Let's all remember that the writers of these shows generally not only had NO knowledge of the military' date=' but were from a group that took their lack of knowledge as a badge of honor.[/quote']

 

Probably true in a number of cases, and there were obviously a LOT of times where things were messed up just to push the story along. A number of TV series are guilty of the latter, Star Trek's various incarnations are hardly a unique case.

 

However, I must say that one very fundamental point is often overlooked. Some people froth at the mouth and nitpick and bitch and moan and complain that "Star Fleet is NOT a proper military organization because ....", and then invariably make comparisons to some aspect of real-life military organizations of the present.

 

The fundamental point (as I see it) is that Star Fleet is centuries in the future. Leaving aside matters of technology, what might somebody from the Napoleonic Wars (or even the US Civil War?) say about the military organization, culture, discipline, etc. of today's forces? OK, the ranks and certain traditions might be similar, but otherwise, it would be alien to them at the very least. In a lot of instances, their reaction to certain accepted ways of doing things would probably be "That's CRAZY! You can't do things like that because ...".

 

Noting also that Star Fleet is not solely comprised of people from the North American continent of Earth, or even from Earth in general. Been a bunch of them thar alien folk in Star Fleet at various times, all of whom have undoubtedly brought in their own ways of doing things. People need to keep that in mind.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

And yet, even from TNG onwards, we saw no African blacks, no Jews, no Muslims, Arabic or otherwise, no Hindus or Sikhs, not even any Russians or Hispanics. And almost every starship captain we saw was from the US. Not Canada, or even Mexico - just the US, with the exception of Picard. And Necheyev doesn't count because we never saw her command a starship.

 

And yes, you can blame sloppy casting and tight scheduling, but in an organization that's supposed to contain people from all Earthly cultures, Star Trek always seemed to contain a disproportionate amount of white US Americans.

 

PS: And only a moron would carry a gun down his trousers instead of in a holster where it, y'know, belongs.

[Tasha]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

On "Enterprise" (the show) during that crappy Zindi war storyline. They added a group of Security folk that seemed Marine-like. They even had episodes where they used the guys for missions and such.

 

Also in ST: Undiscovered Country, the security forces were given a more detailing. In Kirk's time it seems that the Security forces have special armor and weapons (Perhaps the Armor is good enough to resist Firearms and make them even more obsolete).

 

I am hoping that some of the writing will be better in the new continuity (the JJ Abrams one). Seems to be better so far

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

 

I am hoping that some of the writing will be better in the new continuity (the JJ Abrams one). Seems to be better so far

 

Um.... "Red Matter."

 

New King? Same as the old king.

 

But really, the JJ Abrams and TOS got one thing right - sometimes, you just have to throw science out the window and ask "What sounds fun?"

[Yansuf]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Probably true in a number of cases, and there were obviously a LOT of times where things were messed up just to push the story along. A number of TV series are guilty of the latter, Star Trek's various incarnations are hardly a unique case.

 

However, I must say that one very fundamental point is often overlooked. Some people froth at the mouth and nitpick and bitch and moan and complain that "Star Fleet is NOT a proper military organization because ....", and then invariably make comparisons to some aspect of real-life military organizations of the present.

 

The fundamental point (as I see it) is that Star Fleet is centuries in the future. Leaving aside matters of technology, what might somebody from the Napoleonic Wars (or even the US Civil War?) say about the military organization, culture, discipline, etc. of today's forces? OK, the ranks and certain traditions might be similar, but otherwise, it would be alien to them at the very least. In a lot of instances, their reaction to certain accepted ways of doing things would probably be "That's CRAZY! You can't do things like that because ...".

 

Noting also that Star Fleet is not solely comprised of people from the North American continent of Earth, or even from Earth in general. Been a bunch of them thar alien folk in Star Fleet at various times, all of whom have undoubtedly brought in their own ways of doing things. People need to keep that in mind.

 

There is a lot of truth in what you say, but I REFUSE to believe in any sane organization (military or not) that used ST-TNG rules of engagement.

Not to mention their interpretation of the non-interference rule!

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

There is a lot of truth in what you say, but I REFUSE to believe in any sane organization (military or not) that used ST-TNG rules of engagement.

Not to mention their interpretation of the non-interference rule!

 

That, I have some agreement with.

 

Kirk might have played rather freely with the Prime Directive, but in most cases this was when dealing with cultures that had basically "stalled". A lot (not all) of the Prime Directive stuff on TNG was just idiotic.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

And yet' date=' even from TNG onwards, we saw no African blacks, no Jews, no Muslims, Arabic or otherwise, no Hindus or Sikhs, not even any Russians or Hispanics. And almost every starship captain we saw was from the US. Not Canada, or even Mexico - just the US, with the exception of Picard. And Necheyev doesn't count because we never saw her command a starship.[/quote']

 

W-e-l-l, we don't know that for certain - I certainly do not recall any claims as such being made within the episodes or the series guides. That's an assumption based on the choice of actors. For all we know, the individuals they played may not even have been born on Earth, let alone one particular corner of it.

Real-life case in point - nice Jewish fellow I knew, his family was originally from Russia, but he was born in Shanghai. In a culture, or multiplicity of cultures, where starflight is easy and mere intercontinental travel probably insanely cheap, there could be a lot of this.

 

And yes' date=' you can blame sloppy casting and tight scheduling, but in an organization that's supposed to contain people from all Earthly cultures, Star Trek always seemed to contain a disproportionate amount of white US Americans.[/quote']

 

"Always" is an awfully sweeping term. TOS might seem dated now but, for the time, its racially mixed cast was, in itself, VERY remarkable. And I seem to recall more than a sprinkling of non-WASPs in the various incarnations since.

 

PS: And only a moron would carry a gun down his trousers instead of in a holster where it' date=' y'know, [i']belongs[/i].

 

Only when it is funny, dude.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Only when it is funny' date=' dude.[/quote']

 

Sure, it's always funny until someone loses a testicle.

[Kal'El Wayne]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Me? I'm planning to have a Personal Shuttlecraft from Babylon 5, piloted by Susan Ivanova (She can bring Talia Winters. I wouldn't ask my crew to leave their loved ones behind, and Talia can scan for general feelings of ill will or treachery.), Ship Doctor is Doctor Jennifer Keller of SG-1, aided by a Longterm Medical Hologram from Star Trek and a small Bacta Tank from Star Wars, the ships mechanic is a Bajoran, aided by an R2 unit. Of course, I would fit a replicator and program it to suit them and their reccomended diets.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

bump

 

OK. I am starting to work on this with some seriousness. However, could someone move this to Other Genres, as I am thinking of going Savage Worlds with it. Savage Worlds is just general enough that I can hide the power imbalances. I would like to solicit some input, but the project is drifting into new territory. Thanks in advance.

[Beast]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

have a mk 2 phaser replace the backup pistol

and also have a mk 1 phaser modified to pull double duty as a flash light on a P90

I think SG1 also had stun rounds for the P90 as something they got as alien tech

a varible length light saber replaces the K-BAR

 

Maybe, but one can use the same Phaser to blast / disintegrate stuff, stun people at a distance, disrupt forcefields, cut through a tough wall or door, heat rocks to help you stay warm (or fool IR sensors), and (as a last resort) as a bomb. Plus the potential, in the hands of a tech-savvy individual, for being converted on the fly into other useful items.

 

Note: All this in one concealable, aesthetically-pleasing package a bit smaller than ONE clip for an MP7.

 

Don't get me wrong. When taking down a target, few things are as effective or as deeply satisfying as giving said target a massive overdose of kinetic energy. Plus, it is always nice to have a choice of weapons. But Phasers are durn useful in their own right.

[dmjalund]

Re: Star-Trek-Gate-Wars 5

 

Who Mourns for Apophis?