Doc Democracy Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I was thinking today, while watching my son tear round a soft play area, about SPD. Sean walks the dog - I needed an equivalent. Anyway - what was going through my head was a time shift style character and one of the powers I was thinking about was the ability to go on any six segments of a turn - no more than six but any six you wanted. Obviously the way to do that would be to buy +6 SPD, only to vary segments acted on. The big question is, what would you give as a value for that limitation? Or would you do it another way? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Held Phases. I don't enforce the "null zone" or whatever where you lose your Held Phase at the beginning of the next Segment you have a normal Phase. At most I'd impose a Limitation Held Phases may not be used to interrupt, and must be used on character's Dex in a Segment (-1/4) on some or all of their Speed (and that would probably apply to the first Phases in a Turn if it is partially limited). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Held Phases. I don't enforce the "null zone" or whatever where you lose your Held Phase at the beginning of the next Segment you have a normal Phase. Held phases would not allow you to act on segments 1 through 6 before having to stop until after post segment 12 though. Or wait until segment 6 and then go every segment until 12. I did consider this but this is definitely worth points, the question is, how many.... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Hmm. Okay. Speed 12 with May Only Use Half His Phases (-1/2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Hmm. Okay. Speed 12 with May Only Use Half His Phases (-1/2). I was thinking -1/2 and then I thought, well, with SPD 9 I could probably do the phase holding thing and get nine phases as well! :-) But -1/4 seemed to cheap... I'm pleased to see the thought process working in the same way.... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Yeah. It seems like -1/4 isn't enough for not being able to actually perform 12 actions. -1 is obviously to large. I'd be more inclined to make it -1/2 than -3/4, just to play it safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Yeah. It seems like -1/4 isn't enough for not being able to actually perform 12 actions. -1 is obviously to large. I'd be more inclined to make it -1/2 than -3/4' date=' just to play it safe.[/quote'] Yeah, but is six actions whenever you want better than 9 actions? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! What are you applying the limitation to? It seems to impact all your SPD, so this would be 12 SPD (120 points) less the savings from the limitation, so: - a -1/4 saves you 24 points, so you pay 96 points for SPD. You could have had a 9 SPD with 6 points left over instead. - a -1/2 saves 40 points, so you pay 80 points for SPD. You could have had an 8 SPD instead. - a -3/4 saves 52 points, and you pay 68. You could have had a 6 SPD with 8 points left over instead. - a -1 makes the cost equal to a 6 SPD, so clearly is excessive. I think the ability to accelerate your phases is worth more than 8 points, so -3/4 is also excessive. Is it worth 20? Probably - having a rapid series of phases instead of spacing them out has value. It is subject to abuse as well - I'll act in Ph 1,2,3,4,5 and then turtle up in 6 (Dodge, all levels to DCV, multipower/VPP to defenses, etc.), which will hold over until next Ph 1. Is it worth 36 points? Maybe, especially if you're going to really focus on that turtle approach, but it seems quite expensive unless the intent is to abuse it. Given that, I'm inclined to agree with the -1/2 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Yeah, but is six actions whenever you want better than 9 actions? Doc Generally, no. I guess it's arguably better in certain select circumstances, but that kinda depends on the SPD of the opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Given that' date=' I'm inclined to agree with the -1/2 level.[/quote'] Looks like -1/2 is the going rate! Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarragon Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Or would you do it another way? I'm going to be contrary to all the other nice people and say that if a player presented this to me I wouldn't allow it. It feels like an attempt to manipulate the speed system and not an attempt to model anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! I was thinking of very short time-shifting that provides a combat advantage but which had to be balanced out - no extra actions, just the ability to shift them small spaces in time. I would expect GMs to look very closely at the build, costing and desirability... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Looks like -1/2 is the going rate! Ah, but is this a -1/2 limitation on 12 SPD... or is it really more of an Advantage for a 6 SPD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Let's see, 12 SPD -1/2 Only 6 Phases can be used = 80 Points Or 6 SPD +1/4 I can use any Sgement = 75 Points (just doing all the options) +1/2 I can use any Segment = 90 Points +3/4 I can use any Segment = 105 Points Looks like as an Advantage to the comparable Limitation, a +1/2 is about right, +1/4 comes out 5 points cheaper, and I have to think the utility is worth more tha +1/4 . . . probably. So a 1/2 in either direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Let's see, 12 SPD -1/2 Only 6 Phases can be used = 80 Points Or 6 SPD +1/4 I can use any Sgement = 75 Points (just doing all the options) +1/2 I can use any Segment = 90 Points +3/4 I can use any Segment = 105 Points Looks like as an Advantage to the comparable Limitation, a +1/2 is about right, +1/4 comes out 5 points cheaper, and I have to think the utility is worth more tha +1/4 . . . probably. So a 1/2 in either direction. I think I'd rather have a 9 Speed than 6 speed, used any segment. That's also only 6 points less than the cost of 12 SPD, with a -1/4 limitation. Mind you, maybe you buy 4 SPD (so you always move in 3, 6, 9 and 12) and buy +2 SPD usable any segment for another 30. That probably gets similar results for a much lower price (assuming I wasn't planning to use the ability to cluster all my phases, then turtle up in the last one - or abort my first phase in the next turn to turtle up!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! I have no idea which I'd prefer... the possibilities of options are amazing. Assuming I have a high DEX to boot, Aborting a Phase doesn't put me out for very long, in fact, you never have to skip Segments when Aborting - you can reset Block attempts by taking a Phase and then Holding An Action, reset Dive For Cover as well. All kinds of things that cost Actions for mutiple Segments are essentially ignored. Tough choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! ...and what about taking phases 1 to 6 then, say on segment 9, wanting to abort to dodge: do you borrow from the next turn? Does that then mean your first action can not be taken before segment 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! I would assume so... does toss you into a bit of a pickle if you don't save Phase 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Whilst this sort of approach is potentially very useful, I'm (slightly) struggling to visualise the concept it might apply to. Perhaps someone whose powers stem from chaos? Time shuffling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! I could see Chaos, Temporal Manipulation, Luck, and Fate as possible SFX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Ah' date=' but is this a -1/2 limitation on 12 SPD... or is it really more of an Advantage for a 6 SPD? [/quote'] That's how I would do it. 6 SPD with the advantage Usable on Any Segment (+1/2). If I was willing to allow it at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! Whilst this sort of approach is potentially very useful' date=' I'm (slightly) struggling to visualise the concept it might apply to. Perhaps someone whose powers stem from chaos? Time shuffling?[/quote'] Time borrowing was what I was thinking about. Anyway, since when did system wonking need a point for SW?? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurbal Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! My primary concern would be the ability to act on Segment 12 and then the following Segment 1. Since that's normally reserved for characters with a 12 SPD I would use that as a benchmark for Active Points. You obviously don't get all the benefits of the higher SPD so it should be a little lower. My preference would probably be a naked advantage. Phase Shift: Naked Advantage: May take Phases on any Segment (+3/4) for up to 60 Active Points (45 Active / 45 Real) I would probably also limit the character to having Phases on a maximum of 3 consecutive Segments. Phase Shift: Naked Advantage: May take Phases on any Segment (+3/4) for up to 60 Active Points; May not act on more than 3 consecutive Segments (-1/4) (45 Active / 36 Real) The real problem is that the usefulness depends on the character and campaign as a whole as much as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! If you are meaning that you can shift all of your 6 PHA into the first half of the turn, then definitely a 12 SPD with -½ limitation. But if you only want the ability to shift a PHA forward one segment, then I would buy it as +1 SPD, Only to take held actions (-½), Can borrow from next Turn (+½). It costs only 10 points, but I don't see it gives a great deal more utility than a vanilla held action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Re: Sean style pointlessness! OK, if I have a reputation to uphold... Hmm...so we have a (say) SPD 6 character, and if we're making stuff up... We buy +7 SPD, so we are SPD 13 (I know: illegal - we're making stuff up). We don't USE 6 of the SPD: they are just to get us to SPD 13, which allows us to take 2 actions on one phase. That could cause some confusion for the tactician who holds an action until after the attack I know you can sort of do that with a triggered attack, but this allows you do take another full action on a phase where you have already taken a full action, once per turn. How do we manage THAT one? You're only really using 10 of the 70 points but you need the rest to get you there...-2? Less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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