Villainess Romance Appeal?

[SimComm]

Hi All,

I was trying to understand something, and I suppose it might be best to post to try and figure out something about my current campaign.

As many of you may know, the main PC (and currently only one of two male PCs) is Harry, a wizard with some power and is pretty suave

He has two super-villainesses (I think that's the best way to put it) that he sees often, and has yet to really commit to anybody.

I don't want to say that he is a bad guy (he seems to not have a bad bone in his body), but he won't arrest them when they come to town, and often times than not, he will actually help them out more than he should.

It sort of baffles me, as he is doing a LOT to break the laws that he is supposed to be upholding, yet he seems comfortable doing so...

The other PCs are less comfortable with it, but he is party leader, so are fine with it...

 

Because people might ask me, here are the two Super-Villainesses who seem to be able to get away with almost anything:

 

1. Multi-Girl

She is a thief, rogue, liar, spy and mercenary who does a lot of work for people who are in the "grey" zone of legality. She is cute, a bit tomboy-type and has the metahuman ability to make duplicates of herself. Many duplicates (I think her upper limit is 8?). Harry gives her a lot of leeway and has even helpled her steal things (although the target was a very bad gangster guy). She is pretty naughty back, and has been known to seduce him using multiples

He lets her every time, even though he really shouldn't

I keep wondering why he lets her do all of these things. Is it that she's not really killing anybody? That she helps him out from time to time? I'm just sort of baffled, as he has no problem arresting other villainess-thieves...

 

2. Infernis

Infernis is a female demon (looks human-ish, but with glowing eyes and horns!) that Harry summoned back when he was in high school to umm... lose his virginity to (I still can't believe he wrote this in ) in exchange for his soul when he died (and was a Hunted).

Infernis has shown up from time to time and has been rather demanding of poor Harry. Infernis is rather arrogant, but has grown to sort of like Harry.

Over time, she has even given his soul contract back! (and he did buy off the disadvantage).

Still, he lets her back in from time to time, mostly to trade information, but also sometimes he just lets her walk around New York City doing whatever she wants. He does check to see what she has done, but she never does anything "too bad" I suppose... Still, she is a demon/devil and is a villainess to the core. Her main "bad thing" that she does is sell information to people in exchange for parts of their souls (Harry won't let her take people entire souls ). But, he really shouldn't let her even do that!

 

This is my first real super-hero game, and I'm just surprised that super-villainesses can sometimes do whatever they want, but some cannot.

Is Super-Villainess romance so common? If so, what is the appeal? And what determines which Super-Villainess will be given more freedom than others? I have yet to really understand it myself, and I was hoping others could help!

If you would like more information about anyone, please let me know, and let me know if there are other strange matchups!

 

Thank you!

-SC

[drunkonduty]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Well there's a long tradition of 'the girl villain isn't that bad' in comics and related genres (like Pulp.) A good example is Catwoman in the old 60's Batman TV series if you've ever seen that. Or the Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman from the 1987 movie. The two have different reasons for why they aren't so bad. 1960s Catwoman is really just a bit naughty. Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman is driven to psychotic breakdown. One is not responsible for her actions (because of the psychotic breakdown) the other is but she's just so darn cute we forgive her her little pecadillos, like stealing stuff and putting us in death traps.

 

And if anyone is going to pull off a last minute rescue of the Hero you can bet it's the Evil Emperor's daughter, the Spoiled But Beautiful Princess, who will turn to Good for love of the chisel jawed Hero. The real crunch in these situations comes when the Hero goes back to his Girl Next Door Sweetheart: what does the SBBP do then? Does she meekly accept it or does she get all stabby?

 

It's counterpart is that bad women are so much worse than bad men. Trying to think of a really good example... how about Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. Not really comics but definitely cliched enough.

 

Not sure where it comes from, it is a bit sexist and patronising really. All part of that women on a pedestal thing if you ask me. Or more broadly the Madonna/Whore complex. But I'm getting into a very broad and deep area of Women's Studies and this isn't the place and I'm not the person to get into that big a discussion.

 

You've got two bad girls here: you can have one go each way. The obvious choice would be Infernis being really Evil Bunny Boiler and Multi-girl just being misguided/a bit naughty but will grow up/has legitimate reasons for being a villain. But going against the obvious is fun too.

 

Another thought: what is Sgt. Superior going to say when he discovers Harry is 3-timing (or is that 10 timing?) his daughter?

 

hope this helps. Off to work now but will check back on the thread later.

cheers.

[assault]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

The Femme Fatale has been a genre bit from the very beginning.

 

Batman was letting Catwoman escape back in the 40s.

 

Another example is Sala, a character from The Phantom. Lee Falk (the Phantom's creator and writer) had to write her out of the series, because she was beginning to overshadow Diana, the "official" love interest.

 

Other cartoon and comic heroes had similar characters.

 

Not only are these classic bits, they're very appealing - strong characters, with more than a dash of sex appeal. It's hardly surprising that players respond well to them.

 

Male counterparts work too, apparently. I've heard rumours that cute vampire boys have a certain level of popularity in some circles...

 

---

 

In the specific case of your campaign as you have described it, though, the PC might be going a bit far. I would suggest giving him something to think about, before he continues facilitating the activities of the bad girls. Nothing too atrocious, of course - but enough to cause a bit of an ethical problem.

 

The demon is a real worry. If she isn't setting him up, she should be. That's what demons do, in the end.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

And look at the relationship between Tarzan and La of Opar. La was definitely cast as the "bad girl", including trying to sacrifice the "good girl" and official love interest Jane and, IIRC, Tarzan, as well. But we still liked La, if only because of her permanent state of semi-undress. You could say that La and Jane were the psychological mirror images of each other, La being the dark and Jane the light.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

You've got two bad girls here: you can have one go each way. The obvious choice would be Infernis being really Evil Bunny Boiler and Multi-girl just being misguided/a bit naughty but will grow up/has legitimate reasons for being a villain. But going against the obvious is fun too.

 

Another thought: what is Sgt. Superior going to say when he discovers Harry is 3-timing (or is that 10 timing?) his daughter?

 

Thank you very much for your comment!

I will try to explain what I was thinking...

Infernis actually has been affected by Harry (though maybe not that much), and is actually doing the demonically strange thing of being nicer (for a demon).

Multi-Girl has a lot of reasons for being a bad girl (bad family life, bad history) but when it comes down to it, she really just likes doing things that will have people chase her and she can get away and have lots of fancy things. She also is willing to help people at a "discounted price," so I suppose she's not "that bad..." However, she is not really choosy about her clients, and there has been more than once that she was stealing for a very bad super-villain group that was planning to double-cross her in the end.

 

If Sgt. Superior knew Harry was helping either one, Harry would probably be in jail very fast!

Harry has not actually had sex with Multi-Girl, although she has done the naughty thing of "convincing" him by showing up at a pool with all of her duplicates in bikinis.

He also has not really advanced his relationship with Infernis, which confuses Infernis (and sometimes me) to no end. Infernis did get in some trouble with her demon superiors (demons have very strict rules) about giving Harry his soul contract back, and I think Harry feels a bit responsible that she had a lot of her status taken away for helping him (in the campaign world, status is all demons really have to guage each other...)

 

-SC

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

There should be some consequences if others know that Harry's helping them out. The other PCs, other superheroes, the authorities. How would Harry's other wizard buddies in the fight with the supernatural feel about his helping Infernus out?

 

She's the really troubling one. Maybe have her explain sometime after she does something unpleasant and he helps her that the reason she gave him his soul back is that she was sure she could get him to damn himself anyways. "You don't have to give it all up at once in a contract dearie...the old fashioned way of bit by bit is even more fun. I've even been giving you clues, with only taking part of other people's souls. And every time you help me do it, a little bit of yours comes along for the ride. Maybe I'll start collecting your friends afterwards, hmm? That way they can keep you company." And once he realizes what he's been doing, he/the group can go on a series of adventures to recover the bits of other people's souls she's been taking - and along the way redeem his own. Afterwards, maybe the experience will even allow for more character growth and change how he treats Multi-Girl too.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Not only are these classic bits, they're very appealing - strong characters, with more than a dash of sex appeal. It's hardly surprising that players respond well to them.

 

Male counterparts work too, apparently. I've heard rumours that cute vampire boys have a certain level of popularity in some circles...

 

---

 

In the specific case of your campaign as you have described it, though, the PC might be going a bit far. I would suggest giving him something to think about, before he continues facilitating the activities of the bad girls. Nothing too atrocious, of course - but enough to cause a bit of an ethical problem.

 

The demon is a real worry. If she isn't setting him up, she should be. That's what demons do, in the end.

 

I am actually trying to understand the appeal of "strong girls." Strangely enough, the more Multi-Girl asks of Harry, the more he seems to grow attached to her. She is getting more and more daring with her activities, and even the other PCs have told him that he should try and stop her, but he has not listened yet. I am just trying to figure out why! (Of course the Player knows his character is acting odd (I think) but I have not been brave enough to ask why yet I decided I would post before trying to ask this sensitive (?) topic)

Infernis is staying around Harry, I think in part that she hopes Harry will need a big favor, and she can get her soul contract with him back. In that way, she would own Harry after he dies and then they could be together forever I am not sure if she "loves" Harry, or if demons understand the concept, but it is clear that she wouldn't mind if he stayed with her for eternity (I can't blame her either ).

 

Oh, Vampire Boys!!!

One of the PCs (who usually plays Red) made a Vampire Boy after we went to see the Twilight movie (Harry went with us, and I think it sort of made him nervous that there were so many teenage girls, but what did he think was going to be there??).

The boy (who was even NAMED Twilight) was handsome, blonde-haired with bright blue eyes, open white shirt, slightly muscular build, and a very, very, very good smile. : pause as I deleted some of too much fangirl material here :

The Twilight character was a half-vampire, so he could walk in the sun and still use his powers (strength, flight, hard to hurt). He also had a mind-control type of pheromenes (I think this is the right spelling) that could affect people's emotions (giving him a big bonus to persuasion and the like ). Harry did not mind Twilight at all. However, BloodClaw (a Wolverine-type "problem player" that has (I think??) left our group) was very upset that Twilight used his pheromenes power to stop his enrage. He even went to spend a character point to re-roll his successful end enrage roll (I allow PCs to spend a character point to re-roll a miss). He argued very much that the pheromes should not work on him at all. I didn't understand why he was upset so much... Twilight had been using his powers on everyone the whole game without any yelling at this point. I think because of this, Twilight went away and Red came back.

 

(I just realized how far this was off-topic; Sorry!)

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

There should be some consequences if others know that Harry's helping them out. The other PCs, other superheroes, the authorities. How would Harry's other wizard buddies in the fight with the supernatural feel about his helping Infernus out?

 

She's the really troubling one. Maybe have her explain sometime after she does something unpleasant and he helps her that the reason she gave him his soul back is that she was sure she could get him to damn himself anyways. "You don't have to give it all up at once in a contract dearie...the old fashioned way of bit by bit is even more fun. I've even been giving you clues, with only taking part of other people's souls. And every time you help me do it, a little bit of yours comes along for the ride. Maybe I'll start collecting your friends afterwards, hmm? That way they can keep you company." And once he realizes what he's been doing, he/the group can go on a series of adventures to recover the bits of other people's souls she's been taking - and along the way redeem his own. Afterwards, maybe the experience will even allow for more character growth and change how he treats Multi-Girl too.

 

Thank you for the post!

Maybe it is that I don't really know how to play Infernis as a true "manipulative" evil (I'm not sure she is 100% "true" evil, although she is a demon). Harry actually feels (I think) he can reform Infernis, although I'm not sure that is possible either.

The Council would be very, very, very (throw Harry into a box forever-type of ) upset if they found out that he was contacting Infernis, much less letting her walk around a human city!

Infernis, however, has told Harry that he has already let her out once, so what is the harm of "one more time." For some reason Harry keeps agreeing?? (I don't know why he does this?)

 

-SC

[Balabanto]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Hi All,

I was trying to understand something, and I suppose it might be best to post to try and figure out something about my current campaign.

As many of you may know, the main PC (and currently only one of two male PCs) is Harry, a wizard with some power and is pretty suave

He has two super-villainesses (I think that's the best way to put it) that he sees often, and has yet to really commit to anybody.

I don't want to say that he is a bad guy (he seems to not have a bad bone in his body), but he won't arrest them when they come to town, and often times than not, he will actually help them out more than he should.

It sort of baffles me, as he is doing a LOT to break the laws that he is supposed to be upholding, yet he seems comfortable doing so...

The other PCs are less comfortable with it, but he is party leader, so are fine with it...

 

Because people might ask me, here are the two Super-Villainesses who seem to be able to get away with almost anything:

 

1. Multi-Girl

She is a thief, rogue, liar, spy and mercenary who does a lot of work for people who are in the "grey" zone of legality. She is cute, a bit tomboy-type and has the metahuman ability to make duplicates of herself. Many duplicates (I think her upper limit is 8?). Harry gives her a lot of leeway and has even helpled her steal things (although the target was a very bad gangster guy). She is pretty naughty back, and has been known to seduce him using multiples

He lets her every time, even though he really shouldn't

I keep wondering why he lets her do all of these things. Is it that she's not really killing anybody? That she helps him out from time to time? I'm just sort of baffled, as he has no problem arresting other villainess-thieves...

 

2. Infernis

Infernis is a female demon (looks human-ish, but with glowing eyes and horns!) that Harry summoned back when he was in high school to umm... lose his virginity to (I still can't believe he wrote this in ) in exchange for his soul when he died (and was a Hunted).

Infernis has shown up from time to time and has been rather demanding of poor Harry. Infernis is rather arrogant, but has grown to sort of like Harry.

Over time, she has even given his soul contract back! (and he did buy off the disadvantage).

Still, he lets her back in from time to time, mostly to trade information, but also sometimes he just lets her walk around New York City doing whatever she wants. He does check to see what she has done, but she never does anything "too bad" I suppose... Still, she is a demon/devil and is a villainess to the core. Her main "bad thing" that she does is sell information to people in exchange for parts of their souls (Harry won't let her take people entire souls ). But, he really shouldn't let her even do that!

 

This is my first real super-hero game, and I'm just surprised that super-villainesses can sometimes do whatever they want, but some cannot.

Is Super-Villainess romance so common? If so, what is the appeal? And what determines which Super-Villainess will be given more freedom than others? I have yet to really understand it myself, and I was hoping others could help!

If you would like more information about anyone, please let me know, and let me know if there are other strange matchups!

 

Thank you!

-SC

 

1) This is pretty standard. You shouldn't have a problem with this one. Only the darkest of dark vigilantes should really have a problem with Harry's actions.

 

2) If this was my game, this PC would be running for his life. The problem isn't Infernis so much as it is Infernis's MASTERS. These people will be very angry, both with Infernis and with Harry. He's cheating death and getting away with it, effectively. Plus, soul selling is usually a one-way deal. Once that happens, you're doomed. Infernis should also be VERY angry if Harry is seeing anyone else at this point. (You summoned me to lose your virginity, and you have the nerve to see this Multigirl Harlot? Multigirl must DIE!) Plus, angry devils showing up to collect on Harrys effectively unrevokable contract make for serious problems. Remember, these beings are pretty much the sort of people who have their own squad of nitpicky contract attorneys. "She gave you back the contract, unfortunately, according to clause 3, subsection B, paragraph D on page 132, this contract is inviolate and cannot be broken for any reason. If your soul is not forfeit upon death, this city will be annihilated and we will collect all eight million souls forthwith, with the singular exception of yours. You will spend Eternity with Infernis in a ten by ten foot room, with only a devil monkey for company. Sire a half devil child for me, mortal fool, or else!"

 

If this is not acceptable to Harry, tell him that he must find another suitible being to turn over to them in lieu of his own soul. This person must be innocent, kind, and good, and give up their soul of their own free will. In your case, Sargeant Superior's daughter should do nicely.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

2) If this was my game, this PC would be running for his life. The problem isn't Infernis so much as it is Infernis's MASTERS. These people will be very angry, both with Infernis and with Harry. He's cheating death and getting away with it, effectively. Plus, soul selling is usually a one-way deal. Once that happens, you're doomed. Infernis should also be VERY angry if Harry is seeing anyone else at this point. (You summoned me to lose your virginity, and you have the nerve to see this Multigirl Harlot? Multigirl must DIE!) Plus, angry devils showing up to collect on Harrys effectively unrevokable contract make for serious problems. Remember, these beings are pretty much the sort of people who have their own squad of nitpicky contract attorneys. "She gave you back the contract, unfortunately, according to clause 3, subsection B, paragraph D on page 132, this contract is inviolate and cannot be broken for any reason. If your soul is not forfeit upon death, this city will be annihilated and we will collect all eight million souls forthwith, with the singular exception of yours. You will spend Eternity with Infernis in a ten by ten foot room, with only a devil monkey for company. Sire a half devil child for me, mortal fool, or else!"

 

If this is not acceptable to Harry, tell him that he must find another suitible being to turn over to them in lieu of his own soul. This person must be innocent, kind, and good, and give up their soul of their own free will. In your case, Sargeant Superior's daughter should do nicely.

 

This is SO evil! (I like it )

Infernis would probably not mind being with Harry for eternity (although a 10x10 room is probably too small?... Actually, my dorm room may be smaller than that...) Half-Devil Child!!! :D :squeal!!:

I don't think Harry would ever think of hurting Kate, he'd probably give his own soul back.

Sorry, one more time... Half-Devil Child!!!

I can only imagine, little horns, tiny glowing eyes, so CUTE!!!

 

-SC

[Balabanto]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Well, the other thing is, once Harry tells them no, then you can kidnap Kate and have Infernis's masters try to sacrifice her, leading to more bitter rivalry between the Sargeant and the PC's.

 

And woe to Harry when the Sargeant finds out that this all happened because Harry sold his soul in the first place. That's when the real beatdown will start. And THIS time, it will be justified, and the other PC's will likely sit there in the washroom like Lady Macbeths, all standing in line.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Well, the other thing is, once Harry tells them no, then you can kidnap Kate and have Infernis's masters try to sacrifice her, leading to more bitter rivalry between the Sargeant and the PC's.

 

And woe to Harry when the Sargeant finds out that this all happened because Harry sold his soul in the first place. That's when the real beatdown will start. And THIS time, it will be justified, and the other PC's will likely sit there in the washroom like Lady Macbeths, all standing in line.

 

You're very good at this I see

 

I know that the other PCs would not mind putting a hit or two on Harry for all of his recent activity...

 

The plot hook is also very good! I will have to see if it will work...

 

I looked up Catwoman in wikipedia. She looks like a fun character!

I'm amazed that few other Champion characters have a similar problem to Harry? (Or maybe people are just shy Romance is always a hard topic to discuss...)

 

-SC

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Some excellent ideas here.

 

I suspect that Harry has gotten a bit overconfident, possibly even complacent, in his dealings with these two ladies. At the very least, he needs a good scare.

 

Hmmmm. To provide some foreshadowing, give him a proper warning, and also give him a really really good scare, here is one idea I just had:

 

Open a scene with Harry and Kate in Harry's apartment (if the Player asks questions about how / why, tell him not to worry, all will be made clear soon). Kate unexpectedly starts getting seriously romantic. Give Harry a minute or two to try and deal with this, but not too long. At the (in)appropriate moment, Multi-Girl climbs in a window and confronts them both ("Harry! What is that tramp doing here?"). Give Harry a second or two to try and make up an excuse or something, THEN have Infernia appear as well - who also reacts poorly, and demands explanations for the two girls already there.

 

If you have done this right, then ol' Harry should be sweating by now. Give him another second or two, to try and think of something ...

 

Then the other shoe drops. SERGEANT SUPERIOR crashes in through the front door, seeking to "rescue" Kate and probably demanding forcible removal of certain bodyparts of Harry's. Uh, oh.

 

At this point, Harry might consider fleeing for his life (as well he might!). Before he can do much, you then tell him that he wakes up in his bed, in a cold sweat. It was all a dream.

 

Yeah, "It was all a dream" is usually a major cop-out in story-telling, but it seems very appropriate here. Of course, if you were feeling sadistic, you might do this whole scene for real, but maybe that way would not be the best approach.

 

So, have fun, scare the hell out of him, provide a little foreshadowing for what is yet to come, and then start playing through one or more of the other ideas given in this thread, is my suggestion.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Some excellent ideas here.

 

I suspect that Harry has gotten a bit overconfident, possibly even complacent, in his dealings with these two ladies. At the very least, he needs a good scare.

 

Hmmmm. To provide some foreshadowing, give him a proper warning, and also give him a really really good scare, here is one idea I just had:

 

Open a scene with Harry and Kate in Harry's apartment (if the Player asks questions about how / why, tell him not to worry, all will be made clear soon). Kate unexpectedly starts getting seriously romantic. Give Harry a minute or two to try and deal with this, but not too long. At the (in)appropriate moment, Multi-Girl climbs in a window and confronts them both ("Harry! What is that tramp doing here?"). Give Harry a second or two to try and make up an excuse or something, THEN have Infernia appear as well - who also reacts poorly, and demands explanations for the two girls already there.

 

If you have done this right, then ol' Harry should be sweating by now. Give him another second or two, to try and think of something ...

 

Then the other shoe drops. SERGEANT SUPERIOR crashes in through the front door, seeking to "rescue" Kate and probably demanding forcible removal of certain bodyparts of Harry's. Uh, oh.

 

At this point, Harry might consider fleeing for his life (as well he might!). Before he can do much, you then tell him that he wakes up in his bed, in a cold sweat. It was all a dream.

 

Yeah, "It was all a dream" is usually a major cop-out in story-telling, but it seems very appropriate here. Of course, if you were feeling sadistic, you might do this whole scene for real, but maybe that way would not be the best approach.

 

So, have fun, scare the hell out of him, provide a little foreshadowing for what is yet to come, and then start playing through one or more of the other ideas given in this thread, is my suggestion.

 

I love the use of dreams! Thank you for the suggestion!

The only thing is that I would probably change the ending so that instead of the Sgt breaking through the door, Kate would suddenly change into the Sgt and order Harry to "Kiss me you damn filthy maggot, kiss me like a man!!"

 

-SC

[Cygnia]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

One particularly Evil trick you could pull is, of course, possession. Having Infernis (or her masters) possess one of Multi-Girl's multis and/or Kate could be diabolical. In fact, having the masters doing it behind Infernis' back might be a good way to get her back on the crooked and wide path, especially if they can then get all three women then soul-entrapped as a way to taunt Harry.

[greenbriar]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

You could do the ladies in the deathtrap routine. Harry has to decide which one to save, then then Infernis stops it and tells Harry it was to find out who he cares for.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

If other heroes have noticed, then perhaps other villains have also noticed. A shape-changing villain could start to use the shape of one or the other villainesses, just in case Harry and his team shows up.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I'm amazed that few other Champion characters have a similar problem to Harry? (Or maybe people are just shy Romance is always a hard topic to discuss...)

 

Actually, it seems nearly every other Champions villainess in the books has a plot hook involving romance with a male PC...

[Yansuf]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Some excellent ideas here.

 

I suspect that Harry has gotten a bit overconfident, possibly even complacent, in his dealings with these two ladies. At the very least, he needs a good scare.

 

Hmmmm. To provide some foreshadowing, give him a proper warning, and also give him a really really good scare, here is one idea I just had:

 

Open a scene with Harry and Kate in Harry's apartment (if the Player asks questions about how / why, tell him not to worry, all will be made clear soon). Kate unexpectedly starts getting seriously romantic. Give Harry a minute or two to try and deal with this, but not too long. At the (in)appropriate moment, Multi-Girl climbs in a window and confronts them both ("Harry! What is that tramp doing here?"). Give Harry a second or two to try and make up an excuse or something, THEN have Infernia appear as well - who also reacts poorly, and demands explanations for the two girls already there.

 

If you have done this right, then ol' Harry should be sweating by now. Give him another second or two, to try and think of something ...

 

Then the other shoe drops. SERGEANT SUPERIOR crashes in through the front door, seeking to "rescue" Kate and probably demanding forcible removal of certain bodyparts of Harry's. Uh, oh.

 

At this point, Harry might consider fleeing for his life (as well he might!). Before he can do much, you then tell him that he wakes up in his bed, in a cold sweat. It was all a dream.

 

Yeah, "It was all a dream" is usually a major cop-out in story-telling, but it seems very appropriate here. Of course, if you were feeling sadistic, you might do this whole scene for real, but maybe that way would not be the best approach.

 

So, have fun, scare the hell out of him, provide a little foreshadowing for what is yet to come, and then start playing through one or more of the other ideas given in this thread, is my suggestion.

 

GR8 Idea!

[teh bunneh]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Ebil chix = teh hawt.

 

That is all.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Hi All,

I was trying to understand something, and I suppose it might be best to post to try and figure out something about my current campaign.

As many of you may know, the main PC (and currently only one of two male PCs) is Harry, a wizard with some power and is pretty suave

He has two super-villainesses (I think that's the best way to put it) that he sees often, and has yet to really commit to anybody.

I don't want to say that he is a bad guy (he seems to not have a bad bone in his body), but he won't arrest them when they come to town, and often times than not, he will actually help them out more than he should.

It sort of baffles me, as he is doing a LOT to break the laws that he is supposed to be upholding, yet he seems comfortable doing so...

 

You did pass Biology, right?

 

Good girls might be fun-loving, but "Bad Girls" are fun!

There was a little girl

Who had a little curl

Right in the middle of her forehead.

 

And when she was good

She was very,

very

good.

But when she was bad she was

incredible!

The Twilight character was a half-vampire, so he could walk in the sun and still use his powers (strength, flight, hard to hurt). He also had a mind-control type of pheromenes (I think this is the right spelling) that could affect people's emotions (giving him a big bonus to persuasion and the like ). Harry did not mind Twilight at all. However, BloodClaw (a Wolverine-type "problem player" that has (I think??) left our group) was very upset that Twilight used his pheromenes power to stop his enrage. He even went to spend a character point to re-roll his successful end enrage roll (I allow PCs to spend a character point to re-roll a miss). He argued very much that the pheromes should not work on him at all. I didn't understand why he was upset so much... Twilight had been using his powers on everyone the whole game without any yelling at this point. I think because of this, Twilight went away and Red came back.

 

(I just realized how far this was off-topic; Sorry!)

 

-SC

 

Just yesterday I watched a Stargate: Atlantis episode that had a guy with similarly persuasive abilities. It was called Irresistable. Maybe now that Bloodclaw is gone, Twilight might return? [/tangent]

[assault]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I am actually trying to understand the appeal of "strong girls."

 

Easy.

 

You have two characters. In a crisis, one of them screams and cowers. If she tries to run away, she falls over and twists her ankle. The other one makes a competent attempt at trying to deal with the crisis. If she fails, it was because she was outclassed.

 

In general, which would you prefer?

 

Note that "strong girls" and "bad girls" are different things. "Good girls" can be "strong girls" too.

 

And both, of course, are different from "strong characters". By the latter, I mean a character that is interesting and memorable, with a distinct personality that the reader/viewer/player remembers more than a "weaker" character.

 

Ultimately, you want to create strong characters, whatever their other attributes. Unfortunately, it's not easy!

 

The appeal of "bad girls" is, of course, really no different from the appeal of "bad boys".

[novi]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Yeah, hero/villainess romances are just everywhere in the source material. I think it just started as storytelling convenience, as you can't have romantic tension unless you have than one choice for your affections, but you don't want to spend extra time on civilian romances. No, you need to have a character who can be there during the action sequences and not overshadow the main character or be unbelievable to the audience. And when they invented this trope, you couldn't have female action heroes, because proper women didn't do that. But a disinhibited female could take part in action sequences with no problem, as long as she was clearly a villain of some sort. This simplified storytelling greatly with the perfect trifecta - sex appeal, action sequences, and romantic subplots.

 

Also, it's the classic moral dilemma - Betty or Veronica? The good girl vs the bad girl? Do you take the choice society tells you is proper, or do you choose fun now? Or, a somewhat similar one for the ladies, Batman or Superman?

 

 

And far be it for me to tell you how to run your game, but I'm noticing two things you should know. The first is that you need to be more comfortable telling your players no. Part of it is being able to tell people that characters they have don't fit in your game. Another part of it is players taking advantage of you, and needing to put a stop to it. Harry is doing all that stuff is that he thinks that he can get away with it. Part of that is character, but another portion is his player knowing that you won't punish him. So you need to start giving his action consequences. You need to put some serious karmic payback in for Infernis and make it obvious he can't let her get away with stuff, no matter how much he likes her. Oh, he can still roleplay the conflict between his libido and his sense of justice, but let him know that justice better start winning. Multi-girl is less problematic, just start dropping hints that he needs to put a little more effort into reforming her. She'll come around, eventually, mostly.

 

The other bit of advice is that you need to relax and not worry so much - you don't have to get it perfect. You don't have to plan 12 steps ahead of the players, you just need to stay one step ahead and let their imagination fill in the gaps for you. You just have project the air that the stuff you make up as the plan derails is what you intended all along. It's not that hard, you just have to work on your poker face. And as to manipulative NPCs, you can do it. Just remember that you don't have to fool Sherlock Holmes, you just have to fool your players. And, from what I've read into what you've said, is that you have a group of good players who are willing to play along and be dumb in character. Start small, and work up as you succeed. Also, never ask for sense motive rolls - that'll just tip of your players. Let them ask to do it.

 

Also, because your players only know what happens in game and what you tell them, you can make up your evil plans over time and the players will still believe that it was the villains plan the whole time, as long as the plan seems believable.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll attempt to take my own advice.

[Cygnia]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Multi-girl is less problematic, just start dropping hints that he needs to put a little more effort into reforming her. She'll come around, eventually, mostly.

 

 

Heck, maybe she doesn't reform. Maybe it's revealed that MG is stringing him along, using him for the pigeon he is and has no romantic feelings for him. He's just a conveniently lay/meat shield for her. When the going gets tough, she'll betray him in a heartbeat or set him (and his unwilling team members) up if it'll make things better for her.

 

Novi's other points/concerns are very sound and valid though.

[assault]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Heck' date=' maybe she doesn't reform. Maybe it's revealed that MG is stringing him along, using him for the pigeon he is and has no romantic feelings for him.[/quote']

 

He's already got the demon for that. Give the poor guy a break!

 

Of course, MG is probably telling herself that she's just stringing him along, so you can do this scene without it necessarily being final. Maybe leave a little ambiguity, where she cuts him a slight break before she escapes. (Gives a clue to the location of the "real villain", the loot, the hostage, whatever...)

 

If you can, make sure there's some kind of happy (or at least heroic!) ending for all the PCs before the campaign ends. If that means Harry getting together with MG, so be it. And maybe even allow Infernis some kind of redemption - allow her to lose her demonic nature and become human, without her memories, but with a (mortal) life before her. Or have her defeated utterly, as the campaign's ultimate Big Bad.