Susano Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 The Great Leonardo Da Vinci designed many weapons, including giant crossbows, machine guns, siege towers, cluster bombs and even a precursor to the modern-day tank. Okay, not all of these designs will work, but in a fantasy setting, who knows? http://www.thetoyzone.com/2009/blog/15-da-vinci-war-machines/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat1313 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines way cool, sadly theres a broken link at the bottom of the page http://www.thetoyzone.com/2009/blog/10-most-inappropriate-inflatable-toys-ever-made/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Okay, not all of these designs will work, but in a fantasy setting, who knows? http://www.thetoyzone.com/2009/blog/15-da-vinci-war-machines/ One of the things that always amused me about the tank you illustrated - it has all of these guns .... but enough space for a crew of two as long as they don't pack any ammunition or powder! cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines One of the things that always amused me about the tank you illustrated - it has all of these guns .... but enough space for a crew of two as long as they don't pack any ammunition or powder! cheers, Mark Pre-loaded, one-shot cannon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines A Vickers in a turret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Phased-plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines That's about as scary as a lightbulb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines That's about as scary as a lightbulb. The initial shock value of a light bulb, when presented to the average under-educated soldier in the late 1400s cannot be underestimated. Of course, then the shock wears off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Pre-loaded' date=' one-shot cannon?[/quote'] Yeah, I thought about that, but in the end, my guess is that these things were only doodles that he was playing around with. The "tank" has cannons all the way around because it's a cool design and looks neat. I'm guessing details like "where do the actual gunners go?" were never seriously considered. Another good example is the "machine gun" multibarrelled cannon. This had actually been around for a long time pre-Leonardo (under the name of Ribauldequin, rabauld, ribault, ribaudkin, etc). But his version is unworkable - the spread of barrels actually means most of the shot will be wasted. Plus there's the technical problem that unless your loading and shot is very carefully weighed and all barrels are fired simultaneously, the thing's going to jump like a startled mule - perhaps ending by shooting at your own side. Real ribalds had all of their barrels aligned along the axis of the carriage and they still tended to be a bit scattershot. The thing is, though, if you take Leonardo's idea and play with it a bit you could make a workable tank. Dump the nice but basically dumb round shape and make a more practical box, with a rounded front end. Place a real ribald in the front on a pintle and rail mount, so it's got a 120 degree arc of fire - and can be rotated 180 degrees for reloading. Leave space for a crew of 2 (to reload the gun) and one warhorse - to actually move the sucker (the horse is at the back). Now you have something that might actually work ... cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeto Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Actually there was a show on tv here where they built some of Da Vinci's ideas and one was the tank with primitive breech loading cannon from the period that it was designed in. And the Tank worked after they avoided some of the traps the Da Vinci put in his designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Phased-plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. Only what you see on the shelf, pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Only what you see on the shelf' date=' pal.[/quote'] .45 long-slide with laser sighting, an Uzi 9mm and Fracnhi SPAS-12 then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Actually there was a show on tv here where they built some of Da Vinci's ideas and one was the tank with primitive breech loading cannon from the period that it was designed in. And the Tank worked after they avoided some of the traps the Da Vinci put in his designs. So you're saving Da Vinci's designs were made in such a way that unless Da Vinci himself supervised the construction they wouldn't work? Anyway, I see these designs as "thought experiments"; nice to look at but obviously impractical -- but proof of possible concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeto Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Well the traps were little things that could be avoided with use of common sense. Like on the tank if you followed the plans exactly the front set of wheels and the back set would turn in opposite directions instead of the same direction. Kind of like the trap might have been an intelligence test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines I think it more likely that Michael is right. These were simply "what-if" sketches, not actually designs. It's important to remember that despite the myth of Leonard the Inventor and Leonardo the Scientist that sprang up over the last century or so, he actually made his living as a painter. Almost none of his claimed inventions were ever made - those that were made didn't work Leonardo apologists gloss over this sort of difficulty by writing stuff like "A difficulty encountered in the creation of models is that often Leonardo had not entirely thought through the mechanics of a machine before he drew it, or else he used a sort of graphic shorthand, simply not bothering to draw a gear or a lever at a point where one is absolutely essential in order to make a machine function. Matters like this were probably so obvious to a person of Leonardo's skills that he didn't need to record them" which rather flies in the face of his very detailed rendering of many details. It's much more likely that never having built or tested his models, Leonardo was not aware that it wouldn't work - like his idea of letting people walk on the bottom of the sea by having a snorkel suspended by airbags. Leonardo claimed he had tested the idea - but we know now that if it had ever been tried it would rapidly have been found to be impossible. I have no doubt that Leonardo was a genius. However, I suspect that his genius included a genius for self promotion. He wrote a famous letter to Ludovico il Moro describing all the wonderous inventions he would create if Ludovico would hire him. Ludovico did hire him. No inventions were forthcoming. His grandiose dome was built (smaller and in a different style) by someone else. His giant marvelous statue never got past the planning stage. Nor did his fortress designs or his weapon designs, or his water powered mills or his plan for diverting the Arno. He ended up as Ludovico's party coordinator and designer. When Ludovco lost his job and his palace, Leonardo fled to Venice where he got a job as a naval architect, designing defences which ... you guessed it - were never built, and were mostly impractical (I particularly like the giant floating wall). From there he went back to painting, for which, without doubt, he had a real genius. When the painting business got thin, in the wake of the successful French invasion, Leonardo wangled a meeting with the French king and got a job with him, promising to build a mechanical lion that could walk and roar. The mechanical lion - can you guess? - never progressed beyond a few sketches. Leonardo remained a royal favourite anyway for his wide knowledge and painting skill. There's no question he was - as Girl Genius' Jægermonsters would put it "a very shmot guy" - but Cellini, who knew him said he was remarkable not as an architect or an inventor - which he wasn't great at - but for the breadth of his knowledge and as a philosopher. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines The worlds first concept artist, in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Of course, in your fantasy world, there's nothing stopping you from having all of these inventions really work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines I'm more of an idea rat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines I think it more likely that Michael is right. These were simply "what-if" sketches' date=' not actually designs. It's important to remember that despite the myth of Leonard the Inventor and Leonardo the Scientist that sprang up over the last century or so, he actually made his living as a painter. Almost none of his claimed inventions were ever made - those that were made didn't work [/quote'] So Leonardo's most important skill was as a con artist? Cool! Wait a second. One would think that rulers steeped in Machiavelli would be dangerous people to rip off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines Wait a second. One would think that rulers steeped in Machiavelli would be dangerous people to rip off.... Actually, da Vinci was dead before Machiavelli's political works ever saw print. Of course, so was Machiavelli... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines So Leonardo's most important skill was as a con artist? Cool! Wait a second. One would think that rulers steeped in Machiavelli would be dangerous people to rip off.... It's also worth noting (for people who mostly remember da Vinci from his portrait as an old bald guy with a big beard) is that he got to meet his first patron (Ludovico) because he was chosen to deliver a message. And he was chosen in part because of his "divine beauty" and his "flowing golden locks". No, really, I'm not making this stuff up! My picture of Leonardo, drawn from the letters and reminiscences of people who actually knew him is a bit different from the stereotypical picture of the old sage. I see him as your typical alpha. Tall, good looking, smart, self confident. We know he liked parties And he could sing and play the lute pretty well, by all accounts. Add to that a real gift for observation, a genuine gift for invention and a genius for visual flair. Top it off with a quick, easily-bored mind. He was exactly the sort of guy renaissance princes wanted around court to fill in at parties, hang out with, tell them how great they were, etc. Leonardo was the kind of guy who was always trying something new, rapidly getting pretty good at it, but then getting bored and moving on to something else. Even his paintings, in many cases he sketched the outlines, did some basic coloring and then moved on to something else, letting his friends and assistants finish. Michaelangelo, who was a bit obsessive compulsive thought Leonardo was a boastful dilettante (which is unfair) but where Michaelangelo was a master at two things and worked compulsively on his projects, Leonardo was pretty good at lots of things - and finished very little of what he started. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines A veritable Renaissance Man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 15 Da Vinci War Machines A veritable Renaissance Man! Yes, now you mention it . cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.