GamePhil Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I suspect he's referring to 5e players who do not visit the Hero Boards regularly (if at all) but may visit other RPG sites. Wait, there are Hero fans with Internet access that don't visit these boards regularly? Yes, that would make sense. Nevermind, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield As well it should' date=' since Book of the Machine was the testbed for the new layout. [/quote']I knew it was a test for printing hardback and in color, didn't know it was also a test for the new layout... ...but that makes a lot of sense, now that it's been pointed out to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield You made a machine that goes 'boof'?:gives CrosshairCollie a boof to the head: Sorry, can't rep ya at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I suspect he's referring to 5e players who do not visit the Hero Boards regularly (if at all) but may visit other RPG sites. Yes, exactly. I think that letting other RPG websites know about these things could drum up interest for any HERO fans out there who (as you said) do not frequent these boards. After all, we aren't the entirety of the HERO fan base, internet or not, or else DOJ is in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield Wait, there are Hero fans with Internet access that don't visit these boards regularly? Yes, that would make sense. Nevermind, then. Except that this content may very well scare away people who aren't familiar with Hero already. I sure as heck know if I started telling this stuff to my other roleplaying friends who don't play Hero, their eyes would go all fuzzy and they'd be even further from convinced to try it. If you're going to post this kind of thing for the roleplaying populace at large, I'd at least preface it with a big, "If you're already familiar with the Hero System, here's something that might really exicte you..." type intro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield If you're going to post this kind of thing for the roleplaying populace at large' date=' I'd at least preface it with a big, "If you're already familiar with the Hero System, here's something that might really excite you..." type intro.[/quote'] I think that that's implied when talking about changes within a new edition. Besides, I don't think a player would pay much attention to a thread about changes to a system in an upcoming edition of a game that they didn't play in the first place. It would be like a Christian being afraid of a Hindu calling them a heretic, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I like this without reservation. However: But the power construct that really sold me on this concept was the old Superman chestnut' date=' “I use my heat vision to make his gun so hot he has to let it go!”. That’s AoE (Surface) applied to the gun; if the guy holding the gun doesn’t let go, he takes damage from the red-hot metal.[/quote']Talk about chestnuts roasting on an open fire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield Sounds like a neat idea ... and the new design looks very elegant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I too am concerned about the Damage Shield rules. It needs to come out to the right price. It should be acknowledged that there is a considerable difference in utility between an attack that continuously affects its target and an attack which continually emanates from something or someone. Everything else mentioned here, I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The new 6E DS sounds far better than the version from 5th; although I want to see full details. The AoE: Surface is absolutely brilliant. Kudos to GamePhil for coming up with the idea and to Steve Long for recognizing it as a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I too am concerned about the Damage Shield rules. It needs to come out to the right price. It should be acknowledged that there is a considerable difference in utility between an attack that continuously affects its target and an attack which continually emanates from something or someone. Everything else mentioned here, I like. The trick is to costing it so it's priced correctly, but not so high as to make it effectively useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The trick is to costing it so it's priced correctly' date=' but not so high as to make it effectively useless.[/quote'] Yes, and I think part of that is in acknowledging that "continuous" in a Damage Shield is not the same as Continuous in other attacks. If I have to pay END every phase to keep up my DS and hope that my opponent touches me, or use my own actions to try to touch him, I haven't really gained all that much, over an attack that I fire once, and my target takes damage continuously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The difference is that Damage Shield works against everyone, every Segment. Continuous only works against one target on your Phases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield Very true g-a. Damage Shield also has some value defensively, characters are much less likely to grab you, or even strike you. You also basically get to do a mujti-power attack every time you attack hand-to-hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The difference is that Damage Shield works against everyone' date=' every Segment. Continuous only works against one target on your Phases.[/quote'] However, that "everyone" is heavily restricted - it's everyone who touches you. How many people is that going to be? And occasionally that "everyone" might include someone you don't want to hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I think it's an equal value trade off on Continuous - either you guarantee a target you hit, or you take a chance on multiple targets hitting you. Let's also not forget the simple deterrent factor of possible having avoided all kinds of Hand To Hand Damage simply because of the Damage Shield causing attackers to choose a different target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The difference is that Damage Shield works against everyone' date=' every Segment. Continuous only works against one target on your Phases.[/quote'] Personally, the target should take damage on their phases, not every segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I think it's an equal value trade off on Continuous - either you guarantee a target you hit, or you take a chance on multiple targets hitting you. Let's also not forget the simple deterrent factor of possible having avoided all kinds of Hand To Hand Damage simply because of the Damage Shield causing attackers to choose a different target. The problem with the second point is that if the game uses some kind of AP limit, and the advantage value is to high, that you will not take any (or so little) damage that you ignore the DS. ON the other hand the whole advantage stacking issue can cause problems as well...no easy fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The problem with the second point is that if the game uses some kind of AP limit' date=' and the advantage value is to high, that you will not take any (or so little) damage that you ignore the DS. ON the other hand the whole advantage stacking issue can cause problems as well...no easy fix[/quote'] Well, as far as AP limits go, that's a problem with AP limits, not with the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The problem with the second point is that if the game uses some kind of AP limit' date=' and the advantage value is to high, that you will not take any (or so little) damage that you ignore the DS. ON the other hand the whole advantage stacking issue can cause problems as well...no easy fix[/quote'] Hero has always included the GM as a balancing mechanism: the most critical component in the toolkit is a GM with system experience and common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield Personally' date=' the target should take damage on their phases, not every segment.[/quote'] I meant Every Segment from the Attackers/Damage Shield Owners point of view - you only take Damage Shield Damage on a Phase you Attack someone who has Damage Shield - and only once. But the Effect remains active and able to Damage every Segment, but it requires an Attacker to hit someone with Damage Shield. The Continuous Attack requires an Offensive Action on the part of the Powers Owner, Damage Shield does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield The problem with the second point is that if the game uses some kind of AP limit' date=' and the advantage value is to high, that you will not take any (or so little) damage that you ignore the DS. ON the other hand the whole advantage stacking issue can cause problems as well...no easy fix[/quote'] From a straight Continuous POV - I think it's an even trade off if it's either Offensive Continuous (a Constant Attack requiring one attack roll) or Defensive Continuous (an Attack Power that remains active and able to Damage on any Segment). Damage Shield is almost a form of Uncontrolled Continuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield I was ambivalent towards 6th Edition in the run-up to its publication' date=' but am becoming more enthusiastic with the "leaks" of information I've been hearing.[/quote'] +1 (or whatever it is now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield +1 (or whatever it is now) What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajackson Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #3: Area Of Effect And Damage Shield From a straight Continuous POV - I think it's an even trade off if it's either Offensive Continuous (a Constant Attack requiring one attack roll) or Defensive Continuous (an Attack Power that remains active and able to Damage on any Segment). Eh. In my experience, between 'hit an area; anyone in that area takes damage until they put the fire out' and 'hit an area; anyone who enters the area takes damage', the first is usually more useful, because the second version is more likely to get in your way, and easier for opponents to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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