Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

[Doc Samson]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

Retoric question: If he gets significant benefits from doing the Shape Shift: Water and then diving into a large body of water' date=' could I get the same benefits when I Shape Shift: Air? [/quote']

That's a good question. I don't think I would allow allow it to have quite the same benefits as (and this may be a stretch) I think that characters will more often encounter air than large bodies of water in most non-underwater games.

 

This is the only reference I was able to find in a game book to support my opinion:

To fit through very small openings, characters should typically buy a Limited form of Desolidification — Shape Shift can’t spread a character’s mass out to the thinness of vapor, for example.) (UM, pg. 48, example #3)

[Doc Samson]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

If shape shifting into water, wouldn't he still retain his body temperature?

 

I don't know too may bodies of water that are that warm.

I don't think so, it is something I would ask the player if it ever came up. If you were using IR vision to see heat, the shapeshift effects the Sight group. If you were using your hand, it is also bought against touch.

[nexus]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

An idea struck me for a Method C

 

Purchase the shapeshift and get levels with Stealth and Concealment that only work in water and a high Contortionist skill that are tied to the shapeshift. That was get about what the player seems to want. Alternately they could get a high Power Skill with Shapeshift and use it as complimentary to those skills.

[archermoo]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

Hmm...would you say that Imitation might be necessary to make the character indistinguishable from the water around him? This would keep me from having to rule on whether any water the character encounters resembles the water he can turn into enough for the character to hide in it.

 

That might be one way of doing it. But even with that I'd still say that it would just give a bonus to his concealment.

 

If the player wants the effects of Invisibility, he needs to buy Invisibility.

[Vondy]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

An idea struck me for a Method C

 

Purchase the shapeshift and get levels with Stealth and Concealment that only work in water and a high Contortionist skill that are tied to the shapeshift. That was get about what the player seems to want. Alternately they could get a high Power Skill with Shapeshift and use it as complimentary to those skills.

 

I'm intended to suggest the character purchase an EC: shapeshift, invisibility, and maybe desolification or damage control. However, your method is both viable and elegant. And probably cheaper.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

What is "damage control"?

[Vondy]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

What is "damage control"?

 

Sorry. I was having a conversation and typing a post all at one time. I meant, Damage Reduction.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

Sorry. I was having a conversation and typing a post all at one time. I meant' date=' [b']Damage Reduction[/b].

Now that's Damage Control.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

Sorry. I was having a conversation and typing a post all at one time. I meant' date=' [b']Damage Reduction[/b].

 

Sure it wasn't a slip about this comic book?

[DocMan]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

I keep looking at this thread and thinking, "Ok. You have a man standing there, and then he shape-shifts into water, and you have a man-shaped column of water standing there in defiance of gravity. Then it jumps into the lake. While it is submerged, it is hard to find, but when it comes to the surface, you can clearly see the "head" poking up out of the rest of the lake."

 

Doc

[pinecone]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

Thanks for all the input everyone. I am inclined to allow the build based on the above feedback (and the fact that this is actually a returning character from the distant past). After doing some research on the issue, I found this in the FAQ:

 

Can characters make PER Rolls to “perceive through” Shape Shift, or determine that a person is Shape Shifted?

 

No. The standard rules for Shape Shift don’t provide any PER Roll to “see through” the alteration in form. It has to be detected in other ways, such as a PER Roll using a Sense the Shape Shift doesn’t affect (“He looks like Bob... but he sure doesn’t sound like him”). A character could Limit his Shape Shift so that observers get a PER Roll to “see through” his change in form, if desired.

 

The PER Roll for Shape Shift with a Required Skill Roll is going to depend on the extent to which the GM allows Skill Versus Skill Rolls with RSR powers. See 5E 199.

 

The PER Roll modifier discussed for Imitation is an optional thing the GM can allow if he wants, but all it does is tell the onlooker (who by definition has to know what the person being imitated “looks” like) that something’s not quite right. It doesn’t reveal the character’s true appearance or anything like that.

 

Based on the above and your feedback, I think I am going tp tell the player the following:

1. If you are simply in water, other characters will not get a roll to detect you with the effected senses (Sight and Touch), however, if you do anything water cannot normally do (like punching someone in the face) they will be able to detect you. If you would like to remain undetectable while attacking, you will need Stealth or Invisibility.

2. You will be able to escape holds and slip under doors but will not be able to pass through anything that water could not (like a sponge!). To do so, you will need Desolidifcation.

Does this seem reasonable?

 

Sounds reasonable to me...

[ideasmith]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

If you shape shift into water and hide in a lake, do you have to have Life Support?

 

Doc

 

That depends:

 

Do you mind drowning?

 

Do you plan to stay in the water long enough for drowning to become an issue?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Shape Shift into Water: Clever or Cheesy?

 

I keep looking at this thread and thinking' date=' "Ok. You have a man standing there, and then he shape-shifts into water, and you have a man-shaped column of water standing there in defiance of gravity. Then it jumps into the lake. While it is submerged, it is hard to find, but when it comes to the surface, you can clearly see the "head" poking up out of the rest of the lake."[/quote']

 

That's only an issue if he didn't take the Touch Sense Group as well. If he did, then he can change his shape so that he matches the water surface around him.