wcw43921 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 This is something I've never been able to figure out, and I was hoping perhaps some of you could explain the concept to me--I'm afraid I don't see why a supervillain would hire himself out to other people, especially other villains. To my mind, economically speaking, there are generally two types of people in society--those who have the money, and those who work for those who have the money. Most of us, I think, would want to be the ones who have the money--this is the big reason why the lottery is so popular. And superpowers are like a lottery prize--low-level powers, like psychometery or X-ray vision or not needing to eat or sleep, are like a three-figure prize on an instant ticket, only they last longer. High-level powers, like mach-speed flight or running, the strength to throw a tank like a shot-put, the ability to walk through flames without being burned or withstand any impact without injury--those would be like eight-to-nine figure instant millionaire prizes, with the potential to irrevocably change the life of the person empowered, and those around him. Now most of us, especially the members of this forum, would likely use such a prize for the betterment of others as well as ourselves. Some people, like the members of an emotionally damaged forum, would use such a prize for their own benefit, and likely to the detriment of others. But I submit that very few of us, particularly in the latter category, would continue to work for someone else after winning such a prize. Let me put it this way--if you were a supervillain, if you could knock over an armored truck or an automatic teller machine all by yourself, if you could take whatever you wanted without having to pay for it--why would you feel the need to work for someone else, to take orders from someone else, to be known as the hireling of someone else? Then there's the whole "Mercenaries' Code" business. Whenever I hear of that I can't help but think of the line from American Gigolo--"It doesn't matter what you pay. Someone's always going to pay a little bit more." Suppose you hire a supervillain to steal a particularly vaulable object--what's to prevent that same villain from keeping it for himself? He could always ransom it back to its previous owner, or seek a higher price elsewhere. (There's a scenario possibility--an underworld auction for stolen goods.) What could you, as the employer, do to get the item? Hire another supervillain? And what prevents him from going in with the first supervillain for a piece of the profits? Heck, what would prevent you, if you were the supervillain? There are a few circumstances where I could see a supervillain working for someone else--extortion ("Get me what I ask for, and your family goes free. Fail--and they die." ) the ultimate heist ("Follow my plan, and all of you will be rich enough for a dozen lifetimes." The Conquistador's scheme, from Astro City's "Tarnished Angel" storyline, is a good example of this.) force of charisma ("Men may call us villains--but I say we are LIONS! I say we are GODS! Follow me, and all who oppose us shall be crushed under our boots like the worms they are!") or sheer mind control ("You are under my power--Your will is gone--You only wish to obey--Obey--Obey--"). But something as mundane as a paycheck? I find that hard to believe. Does anyone here use mercenary villains in their campaign? Have the questions I've posed even been raised? I would like to know your thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains A lot of mercenaries aren't "villains." They are merely protagonists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains well, powered armor guys are easy. They could be just drivers/operators or need the master villain's resources. Otherwise some people are always going to be unimaginative or followers (' I want to be on Uberbad's team') Unless you can really take on all comers you're going to need support so either hiring out or joining something bigger is a good idea, At any power level less than godlike they'll always be those just "in it for the bucks" anyway. If I could take on anybody else . I'd be top dog but if I had my ass handed to me a few times by lack of support or bad planning I might try another way. I think of the mercenary guys as more Privileged Henchman than Villains anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Villains, like everyone else, can be lazy or unmotivated too... If you're a for hire villain, maybe you get paid up front instead of taking a share of the cut, just to make sure that you get your money. Or maybe you want to get the quick cash but don't lke dealing consistently with other criminals because "Those guys are crazy" and yet you recognize that there is safety in numbers. So, you hire out to pick-up villain teams like GRAB or the Mastermind of the Week club, etc. Also, there is the fact that not every villain is smart enough to come up with crimes of their own and just go along with others becuase they seem to know what they are doing. But that's just some possible reasons that sprang to my mind, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Well I don't have a lot of mercenary villains out of the whole, but here's my list: Hyde: Hyde is a hitman. He could probably use his ability to see in the dark and create areas of darkness to steal, but he makes more money out of one hit than he would be able to carry in a heist. And he likes killing. And of course he's nobody's flunky. He's an independent contractor. Crossfire: Crossfire is another hitman, but all he's got is a gimmicked crossbow. The costume and supervillain name is just to make himself more marketable. Slash and Burn: Slash and Burn were Cain Caliban's flunkies because you just don't say "no" to Cain Caliban. Left to their own devices they'd run their own extortion racket, but they knuckle under when someone bigger and badder comes along. Lady De'ath: The Lady is an actual mercenary (i.e. someone who works for third world governments or those who want to overthrow them) with no powers to speak of beyond the ability to dual-wield uzis. She works as a mercenary for pretty much the same reason anyone works as a mercenary. Virago: Virago uses drugs she can't make and gear she can't fix. She has to work for people with connections and skills she doesn't have. The Mule: Uses his extradimensional pocket to smuggle things. He needs people who have things to smuggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperion Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Also' date=' there is the fact that not every villain is smart enough to come up with crimes of their own and just go along with others becuase they seem to know what they are doing. But that's just some possible reasons that sprang to my mind, YMMV.[/quote'] Regardless of how intelligent the person is, they may not want to take the time and effort that is required to first come up with some plan then to implement it only to have the heroes come along and discovered some way to totally destroy everything. At times it is better to have someone else come up with all that and only be hired hand and do as one is told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psylint Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains "So, you got bitten by a radioactive wombat and you wanna see the world eh? Get paid to pound people into the jelly with those oversized mandibles? Well I suppose you could just mug random people what you meet, but that's high risk low reward stuff, even if you know how to clone credit cards, and let's face it, if you had the smarts to do that, you wouldn't need to pound people to jelly in the first place." "No my mutated friend, what you need is an economic niche wherein your unique talents are not only tolerated, least as far as the yelling, screaming, pitchfork thing, and renumerated. Well, what you need is a mercenary contract. There are dozens of governments, criminal organizations, corporations (though to be honest who can tell the difference?) For reasons that shall escape all understanding, there are people in the world who are eager to pay folks, what're like us, to "acquire" certain articles or person, or destroy certain articles or persons. Heck there's folks what paid just to raise Hell. Hey, I don't understand it, but when the Good Lord puts a fool in your path what wants to pay you obscene amounts of money to do that which by nature you're bound to do anyways... Why it's not nice to look divine providence in the mouth, know what I mean?" Thought experiment: Bob has been bitten by a radioactive Wombat. He now has super strength, the ability to tunnel through the earth at great speed, and is extremely resistant to injury. How does Bob profit from these gifts? Become a longshoreman? Naw, he'd be fired under pressure from the union in no time. Become a substitute crane/bulldozer/etc.? Nope, violates OSHA regs here to Sunday. Honestly, what I think Bob is left with is either some kind of unregulated sports, like Tough Man Fighting, crime, or mercenary/military service. So short answer, supervillains become mercenaries because it is one of the few areas where their abilities give them an economic advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains *Are you actually unstoppable? *Are you powerful/smart/connected enough to be a master villain? If the answer to either of these is no, you probably don't want to work solo. *What happens if/when you get caught? Who arranges for bail, lawyers, and breakouts? *How do you handle it when someone more powerful than you comes after you? *How do you fence/launder your loot? *Who will you go to if you get seriously injured? *How will you ensure the safety of your hideout(s), so you don't have to be constantly on the run? If you don't have good answers for these questions, you probably don't want to work solo. Getting superpowers doesn't turn you into a criminal mastermind. It can work out a lot better to attach to an existing organization and get the benefits of membership. A smart villain can then learn the ropes and take over later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmenace Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Along similar lines as "not everyone is cut out to be a mastermind", a punk with super powers is still a punk. The would be super criminal uses these powers for a quick smash and grab before they know what they are doing and gets nabbed by an experienced hero. After a stay in Stronghold the criminal now has a rap sheet, his or her fingerprints are in the Justice Department's database, and what legit business wants to take a risk on a SUPER POWERED ex-con? Then they hear that someone is hiring special talent, high pay, low risk and the plan is to get in and out before the superheroes show. Take that job or pick up a job application at Burger King. They may not plan too far in advance, taking a few jobs till they can make enough money to get out of the country and live the good life in a country with no extradition treaty with the United States. Honduras might make you a good deal right about now. Or maybe the Job is a try out for an agency with a high super talent turn over rate. If it goes well maybe there will be more work, maybe even a steady gig for Viper, or the Mafia with big bucks, back up and high priced criminal defense lawyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains "Pick up a job application at Burger King"... I am so using that... one of the villians the good guys defeated is going to get a reduced sentence and they'll see him behind the counter... "You want fries with that?" "Bulldozer?" On subject... As others have pointed out, not everyone is suited to work independent. The whole 'steal stuff and have money' skips a couple of steps. Like to make real* money, you can't just rob a bank and retire... you've got to plan on converting the bank money (serial numbers recorded, tracking markers, etc) into money you can spend without fear. And once you have the money, if you start spending cash in job lots the FBI is going to ask where you got it. So, money laundering... or if you go for the stealing valuable items, you need to know where/who to sell it to, and launder that money too. Might be easier to just set up a bank account in your real name, then where a mask and tell the boss to deposit your check in your bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawknight Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Plus some people would rather follow than be proactive, IE Deadshot from DC. He almost never leads or takes inititive, but follows the orders he wants from whatever leader he is serving right now (Rick Flag, Catman). He doesn't sweat the planning and only cares about the doing at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Incidentally, stealing money doesn't do a villain much good if his appearance is so monstrous or otherwise distinctive that he can't spend it in peace. Such a villain might very want to be paid in the luxuries themselves rather than try to figure out how to spend money on them without the salesmen screaming and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Here's a mercenary super team by Killer Shrike: Enforcers Inc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains It works like this: First: You get your superpowers. Second: You hire yourself out to whoever makes you the best offer for a while, socking away some cash in some off shore holdings and making connections in the meantime. Third: Once you've paid your dues, then you go into business for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains It works like this: First: You get your superpowers. Second: You hire yourself out to whoever makes you the best offer for a while, socking away some cash in some off shore holdings and making connections in the meantime. Third: Once you've paid your dues, then you go into business for yourself. Then, 30 years later, still working for the 2nd rate mastermind, you wonder where you went wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisawa Takumi Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Then' date=' 30 years later, still working for the 2nd rate mastermind, you wonder where you went wrong...[/quote'] Wouldn't be surprised about this one happening. But still, not all of them would end up like this. Just most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains A lot of mercenaries aren't "villains." They are merely protagonists. What he said. It is a common trope in the comics that heroes do what they do out of altruism, with no expectation of any compensation. This is well and good if a hero is capable of supporting themselves through other activities. But if someone has super abilities, using them on behalf of an employer, or as an independent contractor, should be too far beyond the pale, so long as the activities themselves are not criminal. Granted, wearing a costume, acting as a superhero, and shilling for products tends to grate on a lot of people's nerves; see various incarnations of DC's Booster Gold for an example. OTOH, licensing merchandise and getting a percentage of same seems to be acceptable, much like professional athletes in the real world. The basic idea is that A. there is a demand for merchandise associated with the hero, B. it is assumed that the hero owns the rights their own public image, costuming, etc. and C. licensing those rights is acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoresLost Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Then' date=' 30 years later, still working for the 2nd rate mastermind, you wonder where you went wrong...[/quote'] But your avatar says your a 1st Class Signalman??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains I think it also depends on the mercenary's personality as well. Perhaps he isnt exactly megalomaniacal. Maybe instead, he just want a few Kicks and get paid good while doing it. One of my WWYCDs is a guy who was formerly a mercenary. He went into the profession simply because he liked to fight. It never would have occurred to him to go rule the world. Plus, it ruling the world would cut down on his time spent with booze and easy women. (hey is really more hero's ally than particularly heroic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains Mercenary - Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary Fictional Mercenaries - Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_mercenaries Mercenary - DC Comics Database http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mercenaries Mercenary - Marvel Comics Database http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mercenaries ------------------------------------------------------------- In my own humble opinion Superpowered Mercenaries work for others because a principle/client provides skills, resources, and benefits. If captured the mercenary has a bargaining chip/get out of jail free card. An employer may provide a jail break or compensation for maintaining silence. Some Mercenaries may just accept their own limitations and seek a leader. Just my 2 cents QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains I have to ask the OP to answer his own question for the real world. If mercenaries can take over countries why do they work for other people rather than just doing it themselves and ruling the country? Why does any thug work for the mob instead of just pulling his own jobs? However you answer that is the answer (or the mundane equivalent) to your question… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains And some guys are like the Transporter. They have a narrow focus and don't want to mix different schemes if they don't have to do that. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains The problem with conquering a country is governing it. International Governments would intervene with their own interests were threatened. Not to mention the problem with other predatory parties. The illusion of authority is necessary for success. QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains The problem with conquering a country is governing it. International Governments would intervene with their own interests were threatened. Not to mention the problem with other predatory parties. The illusion of authority is necessary for success. QM This is true in the real world and a legitimate concern for supervillains as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Re: Mercenary Supervillains UNTIL, PRIMUS, The Warlord, Doctor Destroyer, and The Tiger Squad. Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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