Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

[nexus]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

Yeah' date=' but my mooks can be built entirely by the book. [/quote']

 

Uhm, so can Hugh's. There's no requirement that every NPC character in a campaign has to be based on the same amount of points, if I understand what you're getting at.

[Alibear]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

The rule I have for mooks is that if one attack does enough body to need hospital attention then they never* fight on if they have the chance to run away, play dead, surrender - whatever.

 

Basically I have a 4 body rule, or stunned and your out rule too. Baddies in my games take one good whack and never recover. Ever.

 

 

 

 

*Unless they are zombies, mind controlled, or otherwise acting unnaturally!

[Markdoc]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

The simplest way to do it .... don't build mooks on 75+ points.

 

I tend to build my mooks on 10-25 points and fights go rapidly (last session the PCs waded through 48 swarming beasties - basically mooks - in a single fight). Mooks don't have high defences, either, so they're easy to hurt.

 

In addition, mooks are mooks because they're not heroes or major NPCs. They don't fight to the death, so a Mook who takes 3-5 BOD may not be dead, but if he's KO'ed, he's out of the fight. When he wakes up, he crawls away, moaning and nursing his injuries. If he's badly injured but not KO'ed he's probably going to stagger off, clutching his wounds, or try to hide. Either way, as far as the PCs are concerned, he's out of the fight.

 

These rules require no additional rules, no artificial "mook" categorey and as a result play nice with all existing rules - including pushing, spreading attacks, bouncing, etc - and let the players power through dozens, or even hundreds of lower level opponents, depending on their power level. In addition you don't get an artificial bar that can trip players up, where you vastly increase the difficulty of opponents simply by lifting the "mook" title off them.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

The simplest way to do it .... don't build mooks on 75+ points.

 

I tend to build my mooks on 10-25 points and fights go rapidly (last session the PCs waded through 48 swarming beasties - basically mooks - in a single fight). Mooks don't have high defences, either, so they're easy to hurt.

 

In addition, mooks are mooks because they're not heroes or major NPCs. They don't fight to the death, so a Mook who takes 3-5 BOD may not be dead, but if he's KO'ed, he's out of the fight. When he wakes up, he crawls away, moaning and nursing his injuries. If he's badly injured but not KO'ed he's probably going to stagger off, clutching his wounds, or try to hide. Either way, as far as the PCs are concerned, he's out of the fight.

 

These rules require no additional rules, no artificial "mook" categorey and as a result play nice with all existing rules - including pushing, spreading attacks, bouncing, etc - and let the players power through dozens, or even hundreds of lower level opponents, depending on their power level. In addition you don't get an artificial bar that can trip players up, where you vastly increase the difficulty of opponents simply by lifting the "mook" title off them.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

*Unless they are zombies, mind controlled, or otherwise acting unnaturally!

 

Naturally.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Animate Palindromedary

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

Yeah' date=' but my mooks can be built entirely by the book. [/quote']

 

Uhm' date=' so can Hugh's. There's no requirement that every NPC character in a campaign has to be based on the same amount of points, if I understand what you're getting at.[/quote']

 

Exactly. There is no need to "siphon points away". Otherwise, DNPC's and Followers would not be built "by the book" - Aunt May would have to spend 350 points plus xp.

[Alibear]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

To be Spiderman's DNPC?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

To have the 350 point total it is being suggested mooks need to be "by the book" characters.

 

The simple fact is that, "by the book", NPC's have point totals all over the map - from disadvantages exceeding base points to 1,000+ point monstrosities, with mooks being somewhere on the lower end, well below the PC's. The fact that they have considerably less points is what MAKES them mooks.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

A 12d6 EB does 36 points of stun using standard effect and 12 Body.

 

If a target has DEF+STUN less than 36, they will be KO'd and almost certainly also stunned by any such attack. You could easily rule that any hit that reduces a mook to zero Stun in 1 hit is instant coma.

 

Any hit on a mook could then do standard effect and take them down automatically. No need to apply damage or calculate defences.

 

In fact you could do this - record a little extra mook info:

 

Mook1

CON 15

BODY 12

PE/ED 5

rPD/rED 3

STUN 24

 

STUN number: 23 (8DC SE)

KO number: 32 (11DC SE)

Kill number: 20 (20 DC SE) (17 (17DC) for Killing Attacks)

 

If the mook has no resistant defence, Stun number = CON, KO number = STUN and Kill number = Body

 

That way you know what effect (using SE) an attack will have based on its DC. If the DC of the attack is less than the STUN/KO number, roll it and apply damage, if it is at or over the threshold value, apply the effect with no damage roll.

 

That allows you to adjudicate different characters, different attacks and different maneouvres very quickly.

[OddHat]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

A 12d6 EB does 36 points of stun using standard effect and 12 Body.

 

[Pedantic]42; 3.5 per d6. [/Pedantic]

 

In fact you could do this - record a little extra mook info:

 

Mook1

CON 15

BODY 12

PE/ED 5

rPD/rED 3

STUN 24

 

STUN number: 23 (8DC SE)

KO number: 32 (11DC SE)

Kill number: 20 (20 DC SE) (17 (17DC) for Killing Attacks)

 

If the mook has no resistant defence, Stun number = CON, KO number = STUN and Kill number = Body

 

That way you know what effect (using SE) an attack will have based on its DC. If the DC of the attack is less than the STUN/KO number, roll it and apply damage, if it is at or over the threshold value, apply the effect with no damage roll.

 

That allows you to adjudicate different characters, different attacks and different maneouvres very quickly.

 

Another nice approach. I use something similar for convention games where tracking damage for minor bad guys slows things down too much.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

[Pedantic]42; 3.5 per d6. [/Pedantic]

 

[raw]standard effect is 3 points per d6 despite the fact an average roll is 3.5 per d6.[/raw]

[nexus]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

Exactly. There is no need to "siphon points away". Otherwise' date=' DNPC's and Followers would not be built "by the book" - Aunt May would have to spend 350 points plus xp.[/quote']

 

To be fair the old girl does seem to have allot of Body or some kind of mad Regeneration powers

 

She's harder to put down permanently than Dracula!

[OddHat]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

[raw]standard effect is 3 points per d6 despite the fact an average roll is 3.5 per d6.[/raw]

 

Missed that he was using "Standard Effect".

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

A 12d6 EB does 36 points of stun using standard effect and 12 Body.

 

If a target has DEF+STUN less than 36, they will be KO'd and almost certainly also stunned by any such attack. You could easily rule that any hit that reduces a mook to zero Stun in 1 hit is instant coma.

 

Any hit on a mook could then do standard effect and take them down automatically. No need to apply damage or calculate defences.

 

In fact you could do this - record a little extra mook info:

 

Mook1

CON 15

BODY 12

PE/ED 5

rPD/rED 3

STUN 24

 

STUN number: 23 (8DC SE)

KO number: 32 (11DC SE)

Kill number: 20 (20 DC SE) (17 (17DC) for Killing Attacks)

 

If the mook has no resistant defence, Stun number = CON, KO number = STUN and Kill number = Body

 

That way you know what effect (using SE) an attack will have based on its DC. If the DC of the attack is less than the STUN/KO number, roll it and apply damage, if it is at or over the threshold value, apply the effect with no damage roll.

 

That allows you to adjudicate different characters, different attacks and different maneouvres very quickly.

 

This is a nice way of framing it for quick combat resolution. Two thumbs up.

 

That said, I generally use Alibear's method that when a mook gets hurt badly he just stops fighting (how many normals with a broken arm would really keep tangling with a super anyway?). "Badly" is up to the GM's discretion, so as to make the combat faster and more dramatic. This also allows for some distinction between regular mooks and fanatics or drug-crazed mooks who will fight until truly incapacitated.

[OddHat]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

I try not to think about "realism" in a game with mooks. In real life some people will keep attacking with multiple bullets in them, and more will turn and run; other people will fall over dead when shot in a hand or foot. Real combat is strange.

 

In my games, I think about what's going on in the book or movie. That's enough realism for me.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

I try not to think about "realism" in a game with mooks. In real life some people will keep attacking with multiple bullets in them, and more will turn and run; other people will fall over dead when shot in a hand or foot. Real combat is strange.

 

In my games, I think about what's going on in the book or movie. That's enough realism for me.

 

Absolutely. That is why heroes keep on going no matter how beat up they are, because they are heroes and it makes for a good storyline. But your average run-of-the-mill thug doesn't have that kind of will power, so you can just have them give up as soon as they are seriously (or even lightly) wounded, but only if that makes the game run better.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

Another approach - not a mechanic, just a storytelling tool - is you can assume that mooks who are hit will drop out of combat and retreat, if they can, or just go for cover, or just throw their hands up and surrender.

 

They may not be dead or even unconscious but they are certainly out of the fight, which is often all that matters.

 

If that seems a bit arbitrary you can use a variation of the 'wounding' rule from 5ER 414; give them an EGO roll when first wounded (with appropriate minuses), failure meaning retreat rather than just missing the next action.

[Alibear]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

If you want a rule for that, instaed of GM licence you could use the 'Grace Under Fire' rules from Dark Champions.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

I've done something similar in the past. It goes like this. There is only one set of DEF, Body, and Stun scores for all the mooks together, and it is equal to any of their individual score sets. Any PC attack that does more than the mooks' DEF to any of them takes away from the Body and Stun scores. If either Stun or Body goes to zero or below, a mook is killed/knocked out, and both scores reset to their full values. Otherwise, the one that was hit is Stunned (there should be enough of them for this not to matter too much, and once you get down to one or two you can finish things up normally). If a single PC attack does enough to finish off a mook and completely eradicate a second one, let it be so, and give it a good description.

 

The other thing I occasionally do to speed things up is have a group of mooks attacking get a Multiple Attacker Bonus, and do all of their attacks as a single Autofire attack with a number of shots equal to the number of mooks. That and a little creative storytelling to describe what happened can make things go pretty smoothly in my experience.

[Lucius]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

To be fair the old girl does seem to have allot of Body or some kind of mad Regeneration powers

 

She's harder to put down permanently than Dracula!

 

Yeah, but if you tell her who her nephew is....

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72205

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is ruminating

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/shrikeLethalityOptions_Unofficial.aspx

 

Chump Drop, at the bottom of the page.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

Why not use a variation of the wounding rules? I used in a fantasy game a rule where the mook roll its CON minus 1 per BODY taken. If it failed, then it was out of battle.

[Susano]

Re: Michael's Mook-Mashing Concept

 

Why not use a variation of the wounding rules? I used in a fantasy game a rule where the mook roll its CON minus 1 per BODY taken. If it failed' date=' then it was out of battle.[/quote']

 

I was trying to eliminate extra die rolls and math.