END to END Reserve Attack

[Extell]

Im trying to build an item or something that will initiate an attack that drains the END of a target and put that END into the Endurance Reserve PERMENTLY (so it can be used later).

 

The character the END is drained from would recover at the normal recovery rate but the points put into the Endurance Reserve would not fade. I know the Transfer ability will do something like this but the points transfered would fade back from the Endurance Reserve to the character they were take from over time.

 

Think of it like a vampire sucking the blood from a person. The blood take will regenerate in the person, but it doesnt transfer from the vampire back to the vampire's target over time. Its permenantly in the vampire till he uses that blood for something.

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Drain to get rid of the target's END, then build your END reserve like this:

 

15 active, 12 real

Endurance Reserve (50 END, 10 REC) Reserve: (15 Active Points); REC: (10 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only recovers in a turn when END Drain is used, to the maximum amount of the END drained; -1/2)

[ghost-angel]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Sean is right- what you're doing is placing a Limitation on the Recovery of your Endurance Reserve "Must suck blood" or something similar.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

I'm not real up on Adjustment powers, but wouldn't Transfer: END to ENDReserve, only to restore to starting values work as well? For some reason, I'm thinking the 'only to restore to starting value' means it doesn't fade over time, since you can't boost yourself above where you started.

 

I might be stuck in 4th-Land, though.

[ghost-angel]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

In this case the Transfer is merely a Special Effect for a Drain END, an END Reserve and a Recovery for said END Reserve.

 

Drain END - reduces targets blood supply

END Reserve - where the blood goes

Recovery for END Reserve - how the blood gets there.

 

The Recovery would have something like "Only when Drain END is used, Can only REC up to amount of Endurance Drained from target."

[Extell]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

If Im reading this right this is how to powers should look (Using Hero Designer; my notes in red)...

 

Drain Box

1) Endurance Reserve (100 END, 30 REC) Reserve: (40 Active Points); REC:

(30 Active Points); Limited Recovery (Recovers only the amount drained;

-2), Linked (Drain; -1/2) Put Recovery at 30 which is the max

the Drain attack can hit for

2) Drain END 5d6 Max of 30 END Drained from this attack

[ghost-angel]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Sounds about right, yes.

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Although I would not use 'linked' (becaue the drain and recovery will never happen simultaneously), I'd use the same limitation, so it makes little difference.

 

Thought: if you apply the 'trigger' advantage to the recovery would you allow it to go off whenever te drain goes off?

 

Probably not technically right, but possible, certainly...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Although I would not use 'linked' (becaue the drain and recovery will never happen simultaneously), I'd use the same limitation, so it makes little difference.

 

Thought: if you apply the 'trigger' advantage to the recovery would you allow it to go off whenever te drain goes off?

 

Probably not technically right, but possible, certainly...

 

Rather than REC for the END battery, you could have Linked healing with a decreased re-use period, Triggered to activate when the drain goes off. You could then buy no REC for your END battery and only recover by this Healing power.

 

Although I would like to see options where botyh Transfer and Absorption replace their "Aid" function with Healing.

[pinecone]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Rather than REC for the END battery, you could have Linked healing with a decreased re-use period, Triggered to activate when the drain goes off. You could then buy no REC for your END battery and only recover by this Healing power.

 

Although I would like to see options where botyh Transfer and Absorption replace their "Aid" function with Healing.

 

I think that Ulti-E blaster had Transfer as healing as a option plus 0 mod, only works as healing....

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

I think that you can probably still only heal once per turn at most, but I could be wrong.

 

One option is change the limitation on the REC - this requires more bookwork, but could be OK:

 

REC occurs normally but only results in increased END in proportion to any END drained (-1/2)

 

SO50 END 10 REC reserve. You use 30 END, so you have 20 left.

 

End of turn you recover 10 but it does not affect current END at this time - but note it.

 

Next turn you again recover (you now still have 20 END but 20 more 'in potentia')

 

During the following turn you Drain 16 END from various opponents. you now have 36 END in the reserve and 4 'in potentia'.

 

Practically you can not recover more than REC per turn unless you have had several turns of recovery before you use the drain.

[Extell]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Sean, you seem to still be under the assumption that the Endurance Reserve actually recovers on its own, in my case it would not. The ONLY time my Endurance Reserve can gain any END would be when you drain it from another character.

 

So far, I think the best solution I see is what I stated previously but with the added Trigger for when the Drain goes off. Makes the most sense to me so far.

 

If you want a better real world example of what Im trying to do, think of this as a rechargeable battery. It does not recover unless you put it in a recharger. It never gains any power on its own and any device you put that battery in uses it as its "Endurance Reserve".

 

Quick Note Idea: Maybe expand the Fuel Dependence rules could be expaneded into a type of Endurance Reserve?

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Sean, you seem to still be under the assumption that the Endurance Reserve actually recovers on its own, in my case it would not. The ONLY time my Endurance Reserve can gain any END would be when you drain it from another character.

 

So far, I think the best solution I see is what I stated previously but with the added Trigger for when the Drain goes off. Makes the most sense to me so far.

 

If you want a better real world example of what Im trying to do, think of this as a rechargeable battery. It does not recover unless you put it in a recharger. It never gains any power on its own and any device you put that battery in uses it as its "Endurance Reserve".

 

Quick Note Idea: Maybe expand the Fuel Dependence rules could be expaneded into a type of Endurance Reserve?

 

No, I'm suggesting the potential to recover occurs on its own but only becomes an actual recovery when you drain END. That gets round some of the problems of recoveries with END Reserves only occurring PS12.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

I think that you can probably still only heal once per turn at most' date=' but I could be wrong.[/quote']

 

I think decreased re-use stops at per turn. The easiest way around that, if you want potential for more healing in a turn, would be to buy up the healing dice. It will still be limited to the amount Drained, so if you have (say) a 4d6 Drain, a 5 SDP and you want to be able to Heal an amount equivalent to five Drains per turn, you need to be able to get an average of 70, or a maximum of 120. 20d6 of Healing is a lot, but if that's the potential the character wants, he should pay for it. It would have a Gradual Effect over the turn, and be limited to the accumulated points drained, so that would reduce the cost somewhat, but it would still be expensive. I note that this is enough to recover 140 END per turn, on average. How much should youu pay for the ability to use 140 END per turn?

 

REC occurs normally but only results in increased END in proportion to any END drained (-1/2)

 

SO50 END 10 REC reserve. You use 30 END, so you have 20 left.

 

End of turn you recover 10 but it does not affect current END at this time - but note it.

 

Next turn you again recover (you now still have 20 END but 20 more 'in potentia')

 

During the following turn you Drain 16 END from various opponents. you now have 36 END in the reserve and 4 'in potentia'.

 

Practically you can not recover more than REC per turn unless you have had several turns of recovery before you use the drain.

 

This is less connected to the Drain than I believe is desired. If you want to recover that same 140 END in a turn, you would need both a 140+ END reserve and 140 in recovery, so the cost is not going to be much less (it might even be more).

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

I think decreased re-use stops at per turn. The easiest way around that, if you want potential for more healing in a turn, would be to buy up the healing dice. It will still be limited to the amount Drained, so if you have (say) a 4d6 Drain, a 5 SDP and you want to be able to Heal an amount equivalent to five Drains per turn, you need to be able to get an average of 70, or a maximum of 120. 20d6 of Healing is a lot, but if that's the potential the character wants, he should pay for it. It would have a Gradual Effect over the turn, and be limited to the accumulated points drained, so that would reduce the cost somewhat, but it would still be expensive. I note that this is enough to recover 140 END per turn, on average. How much should youu pay for the ability to use 140 END per turn?

 

 

 

This is less connected to the Drain than I believe is desired. If you want to recover that same 140 END in a turn, you would need both a 140+ END reserve and 140 in recovery, so the cost is not going to be much less (it might even be more).

 

 

I imagine I'm being overly complicated, but here is how I see it working:

 

Assume the character is SPD 4 and uses 10 END per phase.

 

100 END reserve, 30 REC

 

P12 10 END (90 in reserve)

PS12 30 'Potential' REC, still 90 in reserve

P3 10 REC (80 in reserve)

P6 10 REC (70 in reserve)

P9 10 REC (60 in reserve)

P12 10 REC (50 in reserve)

PS12 60 'Potential' REC, still 50 in reserve

P3 10 REC (40 in reserve)

p6 10 REC (30 in reserve)

Combat ends. On P9 and p12 you could drain a defeated opponent of END and replace up to 60 of your own by converting the 'potential' REC to real END, but you would have to wait until the next PS12 to be able to regain the final 10 END by draining.

 

ALTERNATIVELY build it as a transfer after all and limit the REC so that it only works while there is transferred REC in the reserve, ruling that transferred END is always used in preference to recovered END and that recovered END replaces transferred END. That way you can transfer at whatever rate you like and the REC can catch up later.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

I imagine I'm being overly complicated, but here is how I see it working:

 

Assume the character is SPD 4 and uses 10 END per phase.

 

100 END reserve, 30 REC

 

P12 10 END (90 in reserve)

PS12 30 'Potential' REC, still 90 in reserve

P3 10 REC (80 in reserve)

P6 10 REC (70 in reserve)

P9 10 REC (60 in reserve)

P12 10 REC (50 in reserve)

PS12 60 'Potential' REC, still 50 in reserve

P3 10 REC (40 in reserve)

p6 10 REC (30 in reserve)

Combat ends. On P9 and p12 you could drain a defeated opponent of END and replace up to 60 of your own by converting the 'potential' REC to real END, but you would have to wait until the next PS12 to be able to regain the final 10 END by draining.

 

ALTERNATIVELY build it as a transfer after all and limit the REC so that it only works while there is transferred REC in the reserve, ruling that transferred END is always used in preference to recovered END and that recovered END replaces transferred END. That way you can transfer at whatever rate you like and the REC can catch up later.

 

How much "potential REC" do I have if I've been out of combat for 12 hours?

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

How much "potential REC" do I have if I've been out of combat for 12 hours?

 

You max out at the size of your END reserve-current END in reserve, IMO, so if you start with a full reserve, even after 12 hours you have no stored potential, whereas if you start off with an empty one, after 12 hours you will have full END potential. As an equation:

 

Potential END+Current END = Maximum END

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

You max out at the size of your END reserve-current END in reserve, IMO, so if you start with a full reserve, even after 12 hours you have no stored potential, whereas if you start off with an empty one, after 12 hours you will have full END potential. As an equation:

 

Potential END+Current END = Maximum END

 

That's not consistent with your example, which starts off with:

 

 

P12 10 END (90 in reserve)

PS12 30 'Potential' REC, still 90 in reserve

P3 10 REC (80 in reserve)

 

There should only be 10 'Potential' REC, shouldn't there?

[ghost-angel]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

Personally, I don't have a problem moving the Recovery on an END Reserve to match the Phase the Drain was used.

 

By RAW, you can't ever recover more than once a Turn anyways.

 

Your "potential Recovery" should never exceed your Purchased Recovery, IMO. The Per Turn only really comes into play if you need to replenish the Reserve during combat. Outside of Combat it's not much of an issue.

 

The pro-rated Recovery is mentione under Endurance Reserve in the text as well, in this case I would say you Drain the Target of whatever, and then the Recovery kicks in, prorating the actual Drained value over the next Turn at which point you can try and Recovery more if it's not full.

[Sean Waters]

Re: END to END Reserve Attack

 

That's not consistent with your example, which starts off with:

 

 

 

There should only be 10 'Potential' REC, shouldn't there?

 

Yes