GamePhil Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far MCV is Mental Combat Value, O and D should be easy to figure out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far MCV is Mental Combat Value' date=' O and D should be easy to figure out [/quote'] Put the dunce cap on my head -- I should have known that fromn all the pre-release discussion.... One other thing: I'll probably know the answer when I get my PDFs, but if you try to model your old character is it likely to come out more expensive with all the different things you pay for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Put the dunce cap on my head -- I should have known that fromn all the pre-release discussion.... One other thing: I'll probably know the answer when I get my PDFs, but if you try to model your old character is it likely to come out more expensive with all the different things you pay for? That's why you get more points to buy stuff with in 6e... Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Put the dunce cap on my head -- I should have known that fromn all the pre-release discussion.... One other thing: I'll probably know the answer when I get my PDFs, but if you try to model your old character is it likely to come out more expensive with all the different things you pay for? Between 5ER and all the Genre Books there are 102 Characters. I plugged them all into a Spreadsheet and let Steve play with pricing costs. The average Heroic Character went up 25 Points, the Average Superheroic Character went up 49 Points. Later on I plugged every single Superheroic Character (the bunch with the widest possible range) and found that the average price increase in Characteristics was 51. There are approximately 400 published Superheroic Characters for 5th Edition. Which is why the suggest starting points for Heroic Characters is 25 points more and the suggested starting point for Superheroic Characters is 50 points more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Which is why the suggest starting points for Heroic Characters is 25 points more and the suggested starting point for Superheroic Characters is 50 points more. Just out of curiosity, why was the points of Complications reduced to 75? Say instead of 100? Or leaving it at 150? Was the Complications total reduced for Heroic characters as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Matching Complications totals were reduced for all Characters. As for Why... Steve chose to do so. Personally, I like the reduced requirement. It allows me to focus in on those Complications that directly affect the plot, story and characters personally; especially as a GM working with many characters at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Just out of curiosity, why was the points of Complications reduced to 75? Say instead of 100? Or leaving it at 150? Was the Complications total reduced for Heroic characters as well? Look up the numerous threads of people complaining they have to come up with crazy disads that have nothing to do with their character concept or end up being weaker than everyone else. While the old number never bothered me, it has been a pretty constant complaint from a few... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Wow, So now, according to page 132 of 6thv1 folks can use powers casually as a zero phase action the way they used to use Str casually. I'm actually down with that. It allows the Sapphire the same ability to blow through doors that Ironclad has always had. I'm not as sure I like the example where you can make a casual use of an attack and a full use of an attack on the same phase to try to get out of an entangle. It feels like a free, limited sweep. (Of course, I haven't gotten to the sweep rules yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I too welcome the change to Complication point totals. I usually strain to concoct 150 points, which is why I've been using 250 + 100 for quite some time by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorDRod Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I just didn't bother. If my character ended up 25-50 points lower than the rest of the group, I dealt with it. As long as it kept true to the concept I was working with, I was happy. But, YMMV, and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Wow, So now, according to page 132 of 6thv1 folks can use powers casually as a zero phase action the way they used to use Str casually. I'm actually down with that. It allows the Sapphire the same ability to blow through doors that Ironclad has always had. I'm not as sure I like the example where you can make a casual use of an attack and a full use of an attack on the same phase to try to get out of an entangle. It feels like a free, limited sweep. (Of course, I haven't gotten to the sweep rules yet) Seeing as you've always been able to use STR that way it is consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I too welcome the change to Complication point totals. I usually strain to concoct 150 points, which is why I've been using 250 + 100 for quite some time by now. I think the change will allow GM's to focus more attention on the Complications taken. No more "everyone has 50 points of Hunteds", for example. If you take a Hunted, the character Hunting should be central to your character, not a random rogue's gallery member. Similarly, in a Fantasy game, Watched by the City Guard should be played up a lot more than it might have been before. I don't know whether, or in what form, it made it into 6e, but I also recall some discussion about reducing the Complications when the number of characters increased, as Complications require Spotlighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the change will allow GM's to focus more attention on the Complications taken. No more "everyone has 50 points of Hunteds", for example. If you take a Hunted, the character Hunting should be central to your character, not a random rogue's gallery member. Similarly, in a Fantasy game, Watched by the City Guard should be played up a lot more than it might have been before. I don't know whether, or in what form, it made it into 6e, but I also recall some discussion about reducing the Complications when the number of characters increased, as Complications require Spotlighting. Having lots of complications actually makes a lot of sense for long-established hypercompetent characters, but not for new adventurers, too. Batman can have a long-established rogues' gallery and all kinds of personality issues related to his experiences, etc. But Tim Drake shouldn't be running around with 150 points worth of complications right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Having lots of complications actually makes a lot of sense for long-established hypercompetent characters, but not for new adventurers, too. Batman can have a long-established rogues' gallery and all kinds of personality issues related to his experiences, etc. But Tim Drake shouldn't be running around with 150 points worth of complications right off the bat. Yes, he should, as he is dealing with the history of Dick Grayson and Jason Todd wearing the outfit. A lot of baggage came with the suit. Not with the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the change will allow GM's to focus more attention on the Complications taken. No more "everyone has 50 points of Hunteds", for example. If you take a Hunted, the character Hunting should be central to your character, not a random rogue's gallery member. Similarly, in a Fantasy game, Watched by the City Guard should be played up a lot more than it might have been before. I don't know whether, or in what form, it made it into 6e, but I also recall some discussion about reducing the Complications when the number of characters increased, as Complications require Spotlighting. Yes, exactly. I found it difficult to utilize Disadvantages properly (don't have 6e yet, so I'm keeping terminology consistent) at the 150-pt mark; I found it too difficult not to ignore more of them than I paid attention to. At 100-pts though, I found myself reasonably able to juggle the Disadvantages for my adventure writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the biggest benefit to lowering the Complication points is on the GM side. It provides more focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the biggest benefit to lowering the Complication points is on the GM side. It provides more focus. I think that the combination of lower recommended point totals to allow more focus and the renaming to Complications for game role clarification will prove to be one of the more subtly beneficial changes to the system, even if nothing really changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the biggest benefit to lowering the Complication points is on the GM side. It provides more focus. Agreed. And hopefully the changes in the way they are presented (including but not limited to the name change) will help players focused on the idea that Complications aren't a negative but are plot hooks for the Ref to tailor the story to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
director13 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Batman can have a long-established rogues' gallery and all kinds of personality issues related to his experiences, etc. But Tim Drake shouldn't be running around with 150 points worth of complications right off the bat. Heh. I see what you did there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Yes' date=' he should, as he is dealing with the history of Dick Grayson and Jason Todd wearing the outfit. A lot of baggage came with the suit. Not with the person.[/quote'] yeah, but that's precisely one complication, not seven. "Trying to live up to legacy of Robin" (VC, Moderate) or somesuch. He had maybe one or two Hunteds, and another heroic psych lim, and that about covers it. If you want to stretch things out, maybe his dad was a DNPC and his gf too. Still doesn't add up to 150, nor does it really need to, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Joker killed Jason Todd ~ Joker problem Two-Face had major issues with Dick Grayson/Robin ~ Two-Face problem All depends on the level that the GM and the player want to deal with the effects of being a descendant of a Legacy hero. Trying to "live up" is a psych that Drake would have. Sorry. Nothing I read about Drake was he ever trying to live up to. He was trying to get Grayson back to being Robin. Once it was given to him, he forged his own place as Robin. The complications would also appear on the resumes of Joker and Two-Face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Joker killed Jason Todd ~ Joker problem Two-Face had major issues with Dick Grayson/Robin ~ Two-Face problem The complications would also appear on the resumes of Joker and Two-Face. By the book, they would be 0 point Complications, as they were acquired in play (or has that aspect changed in 6e?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Joker killed Jason Todd ~ Joker problem No biggie, though, since he's alive again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far By the book' date=' they would be 0 point Complications, as they were acquired in play (or has that aspect changed in 6e?).[/quote'] Possibly, or in some campaigns, GMs allow Complications to mutate -- that is, this one isn't interesting anymore, let's replace it with something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Possibly' date=' or in some campaigns, GMs allow Complications to mutate -- that is, this one isn't interesting anymore, let's replace it with something different.[/quote'] Which is why I said "by the book". I also prefer the Complication Mutation/Evolution approach, but the Book Rule is that you get no points for Disadvantages (and Complications unless 6e changed it) acquired in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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