What's Hero System good for?

[DJSutton]

So, it seems like Hero System is a powerful, elegant, generic role playing game. I've been intrigued by it for a few years, actually, and it's Steve Long's fault. He had posted on a Decipher trek forum saying that he was leaving to pursue a dream of his. He was getting to purchase and develop Hero System, which he, gushing, described as the "greatest RPG of all time". That struck me, because it was almost an off hand post in a forum for a completely different RPG line, and definitely not part of an organized marketing campaign. It seemed like a genuine opinion, from a developer I respected. So, I researched Hero, largely because of that. I was already familiar with Fuzion, which I liked, so I was halfway there anyway, and did purchase the big green text book. Unfortunately, as with many people, the text book was intimidating enough that we were never able to get anything off the ground (I didn't manage to learn the game, and no one in the group was willing to try).

I, unfortunately, wound up selling Hero 5th at some point, didn't think about it much for a few years. Well, now I'm interested in Hero again, again partly due to trek. Been exited and hyped about the Star Trek Online game coming out, so I tried CoH to see if Cryptic could make a good game (they can). This was enough to get me interested in Champions Online, leading me right back to being intrigued about Hero System.

I didn't want to buy the rule book again, with 6th coming out so soon, but I did purchase a pdf of Sidekick so I could read over and familiarize myself with the rules. But it looks like there's a pretty good sale of 5th edition books right now, and Hero is pretty backwards compatible. Seems like a good time to get a basic collection going, so I'm asking for a recommendation of books to pick up, either because they're unlikely to be adapted to 6th for a while, or because they're essential and part of a basic Hero System collection, or just worth getting.

My second question, though, is what the subject line is about. One thing bugs me about Hero System. I know it's great at supers. I know it's great at fantasy, or anything where people have powers. What about settings where people don't have super powers, or it's not a major focus? Why would I want to use Hero System for these settings? Is Hero System any good for, say doing a WWII game about the French Resistance? I'm sure the answer is yes, and I know there's genre books for some of these settings, but I want to know how the answer is yes. Why Hero is still great, even if you don't use the powers rules?

 

D J Sutton

[OddHat]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

"The Powers Rules" are great for building devices and weapons for any setting, from stone age to far future sci fi. They can also be used to build cinematic talents, such as those seen in grittier Pulps, Action Movies, and other settings where people don't have powers as such but do get away with things that wouldn't work for people in the real world.

 

Hero's skill system is good and has as much or as little detail as you feel like handling, and the character building system in general is very good at fine tuning the characters you want.

 

The toughest thing to get right in Hero is non-Heroic realism, settings where people aren't expected to be larger than life. Even that is possible, but it takes some fine tuning.

 

Dark Champions, Pulp Hero and Star Hero are good places to look for non-Super Powered Hero ideas and examples.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

The HERO System can downscale to do heroic normals, but it does take some tinkering with available options which requires a more than passing familiarity with the rules to get right. Lethality levels is one of the key factors for this....you might find this series of documents helpful: Lethality Options

 

The skill system is extensible and very performant. You should check out the Ultimate Skill in particular. Really, if you just want to run gritty, stripped down games you could get buy with Sidekick, and the Ultimate Skill. If you don't have an intuitive feel for how to express your genre of choice, then one of the genre books could help you as well.

 

 

As far as "powers" go, the Powers section is sadly misnamed. It's really just "Mechanics", which you can use to define whatever it is you need to define whether it be superpowers, spells, weapons, or anything else.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

My second question' date=' though, is what the subject line is about. One thing bugs me about Hero System. I know it's great at supers. I know it's great at fantasy, or anything where people have powers. What about settings where people don't have super powers, or it's not a major focus? Why would I want to use Hero System for these settings? Is Hero System any good for, say doing a WWII game about the French Resistance? I'm sure the answer is yes, and I know there's genre books for some of these settings, but I want to know how the answer is yes. Why Hero is still great, even if you don't use the powers rules?[/quote']

 

Once you've learned the system under supers or fantasy, you don't have to learn a new one to play modern action. It's still a great system, even without Powers; I've played in many non-powered games over the years.

 

Heroic action is heroic action, whether there are Powers or not.

[Psybolt]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

I agree. The flexibility of the character creation component allows you to create any character from any setting. I have also played Hero games we called "super spies" and they were always a blast.

 

As for books, I would echo the sentiment for Sidekick and Ultimate Skill. Definitely both very solid helps. Hero Designer v3 is a huge help in character creation. It makes it sooooo much easier. You don't have to deal with any of the math or figuring that puts so many people off. I would recommend that most definitely.

[CTaylor]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

I think the list of things Hero isn't good for is far shorter and easier to give.

 

In my opinion Hero doesn't do horror settings as well as, say, Call of Cthulhu.

There's no reason to use the Hero system for story/romance/solid role playing or political settings - nor any other system, for that matter.

 

That's all I can think of.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

I've run a Call of Cthulu-like campaign. It was very popular, though short run (five or six sessions).

 

I just added a separate stat for tracking Insanity, every time a character saw something sanity-damaging they had to make an EGO Roll modified as appropriate to the nature of the horror.

 

Something only mildly disturbing might grant a +1 to +3 bonus while something truly horrible might grant a penalty of -1 to -3, and something mindbreaking like a Great Old One would impose a penalty of -4 and up.

 

A failed roll generated insanity points equal to the degree of failure +1; failed by 0 = +1 insanity point, failed by 4 = 5 insanity points, etc.

 

 

Each time a character's insanity points were MOD by 5 (evenly divisible by 5), they had to take one or more Psychological Disadvantages equal to the point value of their insanity points, and the pool reset to 0. The character did not receive any points for these extra Disadvantage points. The Disadvantages could be bought off w/ Experience and so could Insanity points (1 for 1).

 

Once a character had accumulated 75 points in current Disadvantages in this way they were considered to be too borked to continue play and were retired to the looney bin, committed suicide, or what have you.

 

Players could opt to start with up to 25 insanity points; each insanity point they took yielded x2 bonus XP (if I were doing it again, it would be +1). If the starting insanity point total was evenly divisible by 5 the character took the PsyLims and reset to 0 at play start exactly as if they had gained the insanity points during play as described above.

 

 

 

The thing is, the HERO System is extensible.

[CTaylor]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Yeah you can do it, it just doesn't work as well to use Hero in my experience: the sense of terror and helplessness, the atmosphere isn't quite the same to me.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

What I do with it is run a multiverse campaign. Players move between worlds, Some have magic ,some don't etc. Some worlds are space opera, some supers and other fantasy classic or urban.

 

So what's it good for? Everything heroic!

[ghost-angel]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Yeah you can do it' date=' it just doesn't work as well to use Hero in my experience: the sense of terror and helplessness, the atmosphere isn't quite the same to me.[/quote']

 

That's almost more of an issue of the Group than the system being used.

 

I've been in several horror campaigns and games where there was a real sense of terror and helplessness.... using Hero.

[OddHat]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

That's almost more of an issue of the Group than the system being used.

 

I've been in several horror campaigns and games where there was a real sense of terror and helplessness.... using Hero.

 

That's why I guarantee that at least one player won't survive in every Horror Hero game session.

 

Of course, that does create the constant need for new players.

[mayapuppies]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

The key to Hero System is to simply realize that it is a toolkit that allows you to build the game you want to play.

[ghost-angel]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

That's why I guarantee that at least one player won't survive in every Horror Hero game session.

 

Of course, that does create the constant need for new players.

 

Dude, I keep telling you, it's one Character death...

 

I'm running out of places to ditch the bodies.

[Steve Long]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Hi DJ -- welcome to the Hero boards.

 

Since I know you're primarily interested in information from other fans, not a marketing pitch, I won't hit you up with company hyperbole. However, taking off my Line Developer cap for a minute, I will say that two of my longest-running and most popular campaigns of recent years have been my Dark Champions campaign (Hudson City: The Urban Abyss) and my Pulp Hero campaign (Thrilling Hero Tales). Neither of them involved any use of Powers except for the creation of a few "super-skill" type abilities and the occasional Weird Science gadget.

 

Sadly the Dark Champions sequel campaign, Hudson City Rat Bastards, never quite got off the ground. So it goes in the madcap world o' gaming.

[Susano]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

So, it seems like Hero System is a powerful, elegant, generic role playing game. I've been intrigued by it for a few years, actually, and it's Steve Long's fault. He had posted on a Decipher trek forum saying that he was leaving to pursue a dream of his. He was getting to purchase and develop Hero System, which he, gushing, described as the "greatest RPG of all time". That struck me, because it was almost an off hand post in a forum for a completely different RPG line, and definitely not part of an organized marketing campaign. It seemed like a genuine opinion, from a developer I respected. So, I researched Hero, largely because of that. I was already familiar with Fuzion, which I liked, so I was halfway there anyway, and did purchase the big green text book. Unfortunately, as with many people, the text book was intimidating enough that we were never able to get anything off the ground (I didn't manage to learn the game, and no one in the group was willing to try).

I, unfortunately, wound up selling Hero 5th at some point, didn't think about it much for a few years. Well, now I'm interested in Hero again, again partly due to trek. Been exited and hyped about the Star Trek Online game coming out, so I tried CoH to see if Cryptic could make a good game (they can). This was enough to get me interested in Champions Online, leading me right back to being intrigued about Hero System.

I didn't want to buy the rule book again, with 6th coming out so soon, but I did purchase a pdf of Sidekick so I could read over and familiarize myself with the rules. But it looks like there's a pretty good sale of 5th edition books right now, and Hero is pretty backwards compatible. Seems like a good time to get a basic collection going, so I'm asking for a recommendation of books to pick up, either because they're unlikely to be adapted to 6th for a while, or because they're essential and part of a basic Hero System collection, or just worth getting.

My second question, though, is what the subject line is about. One thing bugs me about Hero System. I know it's great at supers. I know it's great at fantasy, or anything where people have powers. What about settings where people don't have super powers, or it's not a major focus? Why would I want to use Hero System for these settings? Is Hero System any good for, say doing a WWII game about the French Resistance? I'm sure the answer is yes, and I know there's genre books for some of these settings, but I want to know how the answer is yes. Why Hero is still great, even if you don't use the powers rules?

 

D J Sutton

 

I suggest poking around here:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/index/archive.html

 

to see what use you can put the HERO System to.

[Crypt]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Why Hero is still great, even if you don't use the powers rules?

 

before i bought Hero 5 i was a Gurps/Rolemaster/Hârnmaster/Chivalry & Sorcery gamemaster. Now, even if i think Hero can be improved, i think i will never get back to those games.

I tend to make low level and gritty scenarios, mercenaries/ghost hunting/Lovecraftian horror/relatively hard SF/, etc..... IMHO Hero works, even with low level genres and it's a lot nicer to master than any of the games i was used to.

 

About powers = don't see them as supernatural capacities. They are mainly mechanical tools which may be used with any genre to simulate effects, even in a campaign without any supernatural. (just think about the french word "pouvoir" which is also a verb meaning "being able to" and you get the very broad definition of what Hero's powers are.)

 

 

Unfortunately, as with many people, the text book was intimidating enough that we were never able to get anything off the ground (I didn't manage to learn the game, and no one in the group was willing to try).

 

I takes time to read the book(s) but it's really worth the effort because thereafter you will save time on parts where other games stacks more and more rules.

[BNakagawa]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

I think the list of things Hero isn't good for is far shorter and easier to give.

 

In my opinion Hero doesn't do horror settings as well as, say, Call of Cthulhu.

There's no reason to use the Hero system for story/romance/solid role playing or political settings - nor any other system, for that matter.

 

That's all I can think of.

 

Actually, I wouldn't mind trying to use Hero for a romance-centric campaign, or a political one (actually, now that I think of it, we've already done the latter on several occasions)

 

Hero actually has mechanisms for reputations which will help or hinder relationships and dealings with this faction or that. There is no reason this could not be leveraged to handle interpersonal relationships as well. (We just haven't gotten around to doing it yet)

 

So, the Hero system is better suited for these types of campaigns/settings than many other game systems which offer the GM no mechanical support for such things.

[Peregrine]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

HERO!

 

Good God, ya'll!

 

What is it good for?

 

Absolutely everything!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

HERO!

 

Good God, ya'll!

 

What is it good for?

 

Absolutely everything!

 

Say it again!

[Susano]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

say it again!

 

hunh!!!

[nexus]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

It's good for allot, excellent for many things and adequate for just about anything so I'll list off what I think it's the best pick for.

 

Currently I'd say Hero System doesn't do low action/cinema settings and genres well, or at least not as well as it could. It is very much a larger than life, action sort of game and its design principles reflect that most things are balanced with combat utility in mind, for example. That's not a bad thing. Action and conflict are the heart of cinematic story telling but it can make it difficult to run other more low key genres (I hesitate to say "realistic") with Hero System or games focused on different kinds of conflict like social or non combat skill challenges. Those aren't impossible by any means but be prepared to do a little house rule creation or "romancing" the rules during play. I'd love to see some "gritty" Hero rules variations at some point but I can understand they're not a priority. The system has a sweet spot.

 

Hero System currently doesn't offer allot of support for social/political type campaigns. It can but it would take some extension of the current rules which are workable but minimal, IMO. Again, I'd love to see some expansion at some point.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Currently I'd say Hero System doesn't do low action/cinema settings and genres well, or at least not as well as it could. It is very much a larger than life, action sort of game and its design principles reflect that most things are balanced with combat utility in mind, for example. That's not a bad thing. Action and conflict are the heart of cinematic story telling but it can make it difficult to run other more low key genres (I hesitate to say "realistic") with Hero System or games focused on different kinds of conflict like social or non combat skill challenges. Those aren't impossible by any means but be prepared to do a little house rule creation or "romancing" the rules during play.

 

Hero System currently doesn't offer allot of support for social/political type campaigns. It can but it would take some extension of the current rules which are workable but minimal, IMO.

 

Well, from what I've heard The Ultimate Skill adds quite a lot of depth to the existing skill system, but I've yet to pick it up.

 

I can say, however, that I've been playing gritty low level realistic games using HERO since Espionage! first came out, to great success.

The main obstacle to greater skill system depth in play comes with dispensing with an exclusively binary resolution system in favor of a task oriented one, which is more of a philosophical/GM preference/Campaign Style question than an actual systemic one.

One easy way we House Ruled it in our campaigns was that in Skill vs. Skill Contests bonuses to the Skill Roll OR Minuses to the Opponents roll (due to rolled level of success) could be swapped ±2/1 for each additional required "Task".

I'll try and come up with a clear example, if anyone cares.

[nexus]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Well, from what I've heard The Ultimate Skill adds quite a lot of depth to the existing skill system, but I've yet to pick it up.

 

I can say, however, that I've been playing gritty low level realistic games using HERO since Espionage! first came out, to great success.

The main obstacle to greater skill system depth in play comes with dispensing with an exclusively binary resolution system in favor of a task oriented one, which is more of a philosophical/GM preference/Campaign Style question than an actual systemic one.

One easy way we House Ruled it in our campaigns was that in Skill vs. Skill Contests bonuses to the Skill Roll OR Minuses to the Opponents roll (due to rolled level of success) could be swapped ±2/1 for each additional required "Task".

I'll try and come up with a clear example, if anyone cares.

 

I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was impossible. It's just not what I consider the optimal system for it in that generally you need some houserules or similar modifications to get just the right feel.

 

Hero is generally focused on the cinematic, the characters, even low point characters are very resilient and skilled and rules about many things outside of physical confrontation are somewhat glossed over or handled in a very cinematic fashion. A GM can come up with stuff on the fly or house rule but its some additional effort. Hero is extremely modular and the ability to dial the levels of "realism" up and down is a great aspect of that. It just that IMO, the low end options aren't as officially flesh out as they could be.

[Crypt]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

Say it again!

 

Ash nazg durbatulûk !

[Kraven Kor]

Re: What's Hero System good for?

 

About the only thing I've found that HERO is not good at: Convincing D20 players to try a real gaming system

 

HERO is a wonderfully realized gaming toolkit. If you take the time to learn it and tweak it to suit your needs, there is little it can't do. It is a bit overwhelming, and not only "at first", but eventually you see that the way everything is balanced against everything else, and how everything works pretty much on a very few basic concepts, it will all be clear. And this realization will happen in this beautiful epiphany where the whole universe seems to finally make sense, if it works for others the way it did for me, anywho.