To gun fu or not gun fu?

[Guest steamteck]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

Personally I think the martial arts rules are some of the coolest things about HERO heroic AND superheroic campaignwise. However, none of my players gun fus because it really doesn't make sense to us with the extra damage stuff etc. Never occured to anyone until brought on these boards. Just rapid attack, two weapons and some skill and penalty levels and we're good.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

Personally I think the martial arts rules are some of the coolest things about HERO heroic AND superheroic campaignwise. However' date=' none of my players gun fus because it really doesn't make sense to us with the extra damage stuff etc. Never occured to anyone until brought on these boards. Just rapid attack, two weapons and some skill and penalty levels and we're good.[/quote']

 

I agree that HERO Martial Arts are really cool.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that Martial Arts, whether Ranged or HTH, are also just one of several mechanics* in HERO that are essentially 'hard coded' to a particular type of damage special effect:

 

Targeting a weak spot on an opponent.

 

*Others include Find Weakness, the optional Hit Location rules and Talents or Super Skills like Deadly Blow.

 

All have their own pros and cons and can go a long way toward flavoring the combats in a particular campaign and genre.

 

The biggest problems occur when you try to mix multiple mechanics together (Find Weakness & Hit Locations, Deadly Blow & Martial Arts, etc...).

 

Gun Fu is fine as long as the GM and player both understand that a character with it should not also have Find Weakness and/or Deadly Blow for the same attack.

 

HM

[Guest steamteck]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

I agree that HERO Martial Arts are really cool.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that Martial Arts, whether Ranged or HTH, are also just one of several mechanics* in HERO that are essentially 'hard coded' to a particular type of damage special effect:

 

Targeting a weak spot on an opponent.

 

 

HM

 

 

I don't really agree with that one. Even with my meager studies of martial arts I know a trained fighter actually can generate more force with a punch. an offensive strike does more damaged because its modeling a more powerful attack like a spin kick , not a more precise one.

[Peregrine]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

I don't really agree with that one. Even with my meager studies of martial arts I know a trained fighter actually can generate more force with a punch. an offensive strike does more damaged because its modeling a more powerful attack like a spin kick ' date=' not a more precise one.[/quote']

 

Precision attacks in the martial arts are modeled in Hero as Martial Maneuvers targeting specific areas, either doing extra damage because of the target location (and avoiding Hit Location penalties) or as NND (nerve strikes, choke holds, etc.), or as the Deadly Blow talent. Straight up extra damage is a matter of skill and training to enable the fighter to deliver more force to the target due to better body mechanics and (in superheroic or wuxia-ish settings) focusing internal energies (chi, etc.).

 

(IOW: "I agree with the poster above and here provide more details based on my own knowledge and experience.")

[Hyper-Man]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

I don't really agree with that one. Even with my meager studies of martial arts I know a trained fighter actually can generate more force with a punch. an offensive strike does more damaged because its modeling a more powerful attack like a spin kick ' date=' not a more precise one.[/quote']

 

Ok, I'll concede to a point on the HTH Martial Arts. They can generate brute force as well as precision.

 

But then why do the rules say subtract an additional 1d6 from the BODY of a Martial Arts attack when figuring Knockback?

 

Also, how would a Ranged Martial Art maneuver cause a bullet to generate more damage from a gun if not precision?

[Kenn]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

With a gun, in particular, I think it can be said that the extra damage represents accuracy.

 

However, in the example I described above, of a baseball pitcher using his pitching techniques with a hurled attack, the extra damage (or lack thereof) could be force resulting from different pitching speeds.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

Ok, I'll concede to a point on the HTH Martial Arts. They can generate brute force as well as precision.

 

But then why do the rules say subtract an additional 1d6 from the BODY of a Martial Arts attack when figuring Knockback?

 

Also, how would a Ranged Martial Art maneuver cause a bullet to generate more damage from a gun if not precision?

 

 

The main reason I can think off is not to get crazy knockback. You could make an argument for it being more en genre for MA attacks to deliver not equal knockback with bricks.

 

Peregrine I'm afraid you'll never convince me a muay thai knee strike or spin kick does more damage because its more precise. Your point works for some attacks but not really for those sort of power attacks.

 

Ranged MA would have to be precision but as we use hit locations, penalty levels and skill levels workk better for us.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

With a gun, in particular, I think it can be said that the extra damage represents accuracy.

 

However, in the example I described above, of a baseball pitcher using his pitching techniques with a hurled attack, the extra damage (or lack thereof) could be force resulting from different pitching speeds.

 

 

That makes sense to me.

[Vulcan]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

The main reason I can think off is not to get crazy knockback. You could make an argument for it being more en genre for MA attacks to deliver not equal knockback with bricks.

 

Peregrine I'm afraid you'll never convince me a muay thai knee strike or spin kick does more damage because its more precise. Your point works for some attacks but not really for those sort of power attacks.

 

Ranged MA would have to be precision but as we use hit locations, penalty levels and skill levels workk better for us.

 

Well, that's one of those little things called special effect. For a Muay Tai fighter, then calling it 'extra force' is perfectly appropriate. For an ancient master, it can be 'chi-power infusing the strike.' For a fencer, then 'expert precision' is entirely appropriate. It all depends on how you define the power...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

Well' date=' that's one of those little things called [i']special effect.[/i] For a Muay Tai fighter, then calling it 'extra force' is perfectly appropriate. For an ancient master, it can be 'chi-power infusing the strike.' For a fencer, then 'expert precision' is entirely appropriate. It all depends on how you define the power...

 

 

I suppose you're right but being a fencer myself, I can definitely tell you a lunge, for example, has more real power than a thrust. Which is also a major part of my feeling about it since many strikes have more real power

 

I guess my point is MA extra damage should not be exclusively defined by precision. Personally if it was I'd figure the extra damage was no good for most armor penetration unless one claims ones going for weak spots which in some cases just aren't conveniently were you'd like them to be.

 

In the end we all go with what stays within our personal willing suspension of belief. I admit I tend to give guns less of a pass because they seem mundane and very unmystical.

[Peregrine]

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

 

Peregrine I'm afraid you'll never convince me a muay thai knee strike or spin kick does more damage because its more precise. Your point works for some attacks but not really for those sort of power attacks.

 

 

Nor was I trying to do so. Those are "hit with more force due to body mechanics+skill" examples. The "Precision"/NND stuff is nerve strikes, groin shots, joint locks, etc.