Any house rules on a different dice system?

[Doompriest]

Hi, first time poster here so be gentle,

 

I have been trying to get a game going for HERO for a while but my group has only one concern and that is the "roll low and succeed" method that comes with the system. So, anyone have any suggestions or already designed system of how to make it more friendly towards players who like to roll high in a system?

 

I was thinking just make everything opposite, so for example, after a player makes a character and something calls for a -11 roll, he has to roll over 11. The downside to this is I am not familiar with the rules enough to know if changing it from roll low to roll high will change the balance that the system has.

 

Suggestions? Feedback?

 

Thanks,

 

Doompriest

[Spence]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Read this http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72302

 

[ghost-angel]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

I'm curious... why is the Roll Low mechanic a concern?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Psychological cues, mostly. Purely player-driven, used to the 'roll high!!' mechanic practically everywhere else -- even in the HERO system itself, re: damage.

 

Doompriest, it's pretty much opposite-day; take 21, subtract the actual game mechanic (11- becomes 12+, 10- becomes 13+, 9- becomes 14+, etc., while 18- becomes 3+) and that's what your players have to roll. This seems slightly odd, because the average roll on 3d6 is NOT 11, it's 11.5 -- but that's the way you go. Levels can add directly to the roll, so if you roll that 7 and you needed an 8+ and you have a level, well, there you go -- you have an 8. Just remember to reverse all your penalties and bonuses...

[Alcamtar]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

I use "roll high" for combat: dice + OCV >= 10 + DCV. You can rearrange this to: DCV hit = dice + OCV - 10.

 

I personally find it much faster when GMing to roll high for combat. Players can roll any way they like, just tell me what DCV they hit and I don't care.

 

For skills I still do "roll low" because there's no speed benefit in rolling high, the numbers already right there so it's easy. If you really want to change skills to roll high, you need to first convert the characteristic rolls to (12 - CHA/5) or higher, so 14 INT = 8+. Skill levels would subtract from this, so 7 pts in an INT skill would be -2 to the roll, or 6+.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

It'd be 13-CHA/5.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Some people like high roll better than low roll.

 

If you want to high roll, that's fine but change the target number to 10 rather than 11 to preserve the same odds.

 

Then hitting in combat becomes:

 

3d6+OCV, looking to equal or beat DCV+10. If you record DCV+10 and always work from that rather than raw DCV (unless you need to halve DCV - then you need to re-calculate), a high roll mechanic is very quick and easy.

 

If you prefer a 'target number' then DCV+10-OCV is the number you have to roll on 3d6.

 

Skill rolls work on (skill)or less so you need to calculate them a bit differently. Take your skill roll and subtract 11. This becomes the bonus to a 3d6 roll trying to equal or beat 10 (or if you prefer a target number: 10-bonus). You can also work it out as 12-(CHA/5 + skill levels) as the target number.

 

Have fun.

[Doompriest]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Hi guys,

 

Thank you soooo much for the quick response, this makes my life so much easier.

 

I'm curious... why is the Roll Low mechanic a concern?

 

Ya ghost-angel, the Roll Low mechanic is just a foreign concept to most gamers. Some believe that they will never roll low due to the luck of their dice. It is all in the head I believe, but I want my players to enjoy the system and maybe convert to it.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses and input.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Sorry - where are my manners?

 

Welcome to the boards

[prestidigitator]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Welcome! I use this pretty commonly. Here's a link to a similar discussion, in which I link to similar discussions in which I have even attached documents specifying an alternate rolling method.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43703

[ghost-angel]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Hi guys,

 

Thank you soooo much for the quick response, this makes my life so much easier.

 

 

 

Ya ghost-angel, the Roll Low mechanic is just a foreign concept to most gamers. Some believe that they will never roll low due to the luck of their dice. It is all in the head I believe, but I want my players to enjoy the system and maybe convert to it.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses and input.

 

Welcome to the boards, glad we could help (er, they could help).

 

Guess I just don't get into that kind of head space to even remotely understand it.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Welcome to the boards, glad we could help (er, they could help).

 

Guess I just don't get into that kind of head space to even remotely understand it.

 

 

I actually DO understand it but only because I like roll low sooooo much better. I just figure some people are the opposite. Actually I understand the preference( which seems to be the case here) but not the inability to to understand it or being confused by it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

I understand nothing, and have a range of interesting and varied opinions on it

[aylwin13]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

I understand nothing' date=' and have a range of interesting and varied opinions on it [/quote']

That's OK, Sean. We listen to "nothing" you say anyway.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

That's OK' date=' Sean. We listen to "nothing" you say anyway. [/quote']

 

...which gives me the freedom to say anything...positively zen

 

On dice rolling house rules - nothing to do with high rolling - I like the idea of using the roll to hit as part of the roll to damage - that works well for me with low rolling because a 3, which many consider that perfect hit - is in fact the lucky punch that even ClutzoMan could connect with - it takes real skill to roll high and still hit

[Crypt]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

1. Is use the 3D6+mod VS 10 method.

 

2. I use a non-explosive open-ended method. When a pure 18 is rolled there is 1/2 chance to get a 19; when getting a 19 there is 1/2 chance to get a 20, etc... The player rolls 1d6, if he obtains 4 or more then he get +1 on his roll and reroll 1d6. He continue as far as he roll 4 or more.

Of course a 18 is not an automatic success

 

3. When rolling for effects (mainly damages dices) i use the following table:

http://cryptmaster.free.fr/HERO/chart.php

This chart applies the same % repartition as a 3D6 roll on any roll.

The player uses his pure attack roll (without modifier), the one used to hit, then check the damage on the table. For instance if he rolled 15 during his attack and hit his target with a 7d weapon he does 35(12) damages (35 BODY for a killing attack or 35 STUN and 12 BODY for a Normal attack.)

(As you may see he had 0.0018% chance of rolling a pure 25.)

 

 

 

I'm curious... why is the Roll Low mechanic a concern?

 

because i like open-ended rolls

 

 

 

PS: an application of the Earthdawn method:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70714&highlight=earthdawn

[CTaylor]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

I'm curious... why is the Roll Low mechanic a concern?

 

Seems to bother some, or at least confuse them when you have high and low rolls (even though all games have it). Welcome to the boards, and 6th edition hero probably will go roll high.

[Greywind]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Interesting assumption.

[CTaylor]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Just a guess but it seems pretty likely to me at this point. I wouldn't mind either way.

[Crypt]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Seems to bother some' date=' or at least confuse them when you have high and low rolls (even though all games have it). Welcome to the boards, and 6th edition hero probably will go roll high.[/quote']

 

IMHO this is a matter of taste, not a matter of confusion.

 

High rolls also ease some mecanisms (eg. skills duels), targetting a number is faster than extracting a margin.

[Vondy]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

IMHO this is a matter of taste, not a matter of confusion.

 

High rolls also ease some mecanisms (eg. skills duels), targetting a number is faster than extracting a margin.

 

Which is only a benefit when you want a pass/fail result.

[Crypt]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Which is only a benefit when you want a pass/fail result.

 

 

Even if you need to actually extract a final margin, with the high roll method you only need to do it once while with the low roll method you need to do it twice.

 

low roll:

A13- vs B15-

A rolls 11 => Amargin = 2 (1 substraction)

B rolls 9 under 15-2=> final Bmargin = 4 (+2 substractions)

 

high roll

A+2 vs B+4

A rolls 10 = total 12 (1 addition)

B rolls 12 = total 16 vs 12 = final Bmargin = 4 (+1 addition and 1 substraction)

 

Obviously this is mathematically the same appart from the fact there are 3 substractions in the low method VS 2 additions and 1 substraction in the high one .

I feel more confortable with the high roll (and i may add a non_explosive open_ended method to it (see previously.) : It would be ugly with the low roll method. )

 

PS: honestly i see no rational reason to keep using a low roll method, except in very simple games like CoC.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

Seems to bother some' date=' or at least confuse them when you have high and low rolls (even though all games have it). Welcome to the boards, and 6th edition hero probably will go roll high.[/quote']

 

Steve said in his chat this week he had no compelling reason to change the Roll Low aspect.

[Crypt]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

About high low:

i'd like to find a way to use +- rolls (for instance 1d6-1d6) in order to roll against a 0 target number instead of 10 (one of the benefit is that scores may be seen as average results*) but i see no way to get the same kind of curve as 3d6, still using d6 if possible but without affecting too much the range of possible results .... any idea ? (it seems impossible but who knows...)

 

 

 

* for instance with a Skill(+3) +1d6-1d6, 3 is the average result.

It can be very handy when not willing to add a random factor to an action (this is the same as a "Take 10"...)

[L. Marcus]

Re: Any house rules on a different dice system?

 

You could use 2d6-2d6. The top of the Bell curve is a bit flatter and the base is wider, but the difference isn't huge . . .