Need advice on Growth

[Doc Samson]

I am trying to build a character for a Champions game. I would like to do a Growth Brick, but a few bad memories of past Growth characters have started to re-surface. I'm ok with not being able to be full size alot of the time as I have learned to adjust my tactics to still be able to contribute in combat when small (holding actions to Haymaker on awkward phases, Move Throughs on low DCV opponents, ect).

 

My problem is the DCV penalty. In the past, things like full-speed Move Throughs and Placed Shots to the Head have resulted in my Growth Bricks getting dropped too fast. I usually overcome this problem by taking Damage Reduction (the trade-off being that I am rarely missed even by high-damage maneuvers like coordinated attacks and move throughs), but the campaign I am submitting the character for has banned DR. Any advice on how to overcome low (1-3) DCV would be appreciated.

 

P.S. I thought about just buying DCV up to normal levels but CSLs in the campaign are limited to 2-3 so the best DCV I could hope for at full size is a 3. Thanks in advance for replies.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

1. Don't use Placed Shots in superhero games.

2. DCV levels that offset the Growth penalty.

3. Desolidification and some liberal aborting?

4. Invisibility?

[Vulcan]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

That's your first problem, superheroic games are not designed to deal with called shots. So long as there are called shots, Growth characters are (at best!) paper tigers.

 

Next: has the GM disallowed DR generally, or has he specifically said no to your concept? You might try bouncing it off of him, pointing out that the character has such a low DCV that he needs something for balance. If he says no, then go for raw PD/ED. If he disallows that, then maybe he doesn't like your concept and you should make a different character.

 

2-3 CSL's max? So he expects you to all be relatively inexperienced in working with your powers then? I take it this is a 'Teen Chapions/Recently acquired powers' game?

[Doc Samson]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

That's your first problem, superheroic games are not designed to deal with called shots. So long as there are called shots, Growth characters are (at best!) paper tigers.

 

Next: has the GM disallowed DR generally, or has he specifically said no to your concept? You might try bouncing it off of him, pointing out that the character has such a low DCV that he needs something for balance. If he says no, then go for raw PD/ED. If he disallows that, then maybe he doesn't like your concept and you should make a different character.

 

2-3 CSL's max? So he expects you to all be relatively inexperienced in working with your powers then? I take it this is a 'Teen Chapions/Recently acquired powers' game?

It's the Catalyst game in the Champs forum. Creation guidelines can be found here (http://homepages.peakpeak.com/~fedifensor/games/hero/characters.htm). In an early post the GM said that he would not be allowing DR for players. This is my second submission. My first character was bounced for having Extra Limbs, TWF, and Rapid Attack as the GM felt that they were too powerful together. The Growth character will be my second attemp to get in. I'm not sure that Placed Shots will be used, but I have the same concern in regards to other attacks that are very potent against low DCV like autofire, rapidfire, move through, ect.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

Don't buy the "Growth" Power.

 

Buy all the components you want with the Special Effect of "Gets' Much Bigger"

You can leave off the DCV Penalties this way; and the size of target issue can also be explained as SFX: Hitting me is easy, hitting me so I'll notice is much harder. Lot's a nicks and scrapes and "just barely missed' type shots.

 

And don't feel bad - they're bouncing all kinds of interesting and good constructs in that campaign. Vox's original character was pretty cool and emasculated for no good reason.

[Split Decision]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

I just yesterday built a character who is always tiny in this exact same way. Phys Lims to represent size, microscopic strength, running, swimming, etc, and loads of CV levels.

 

Additionally, -PER rolls versus, and good +PER rolls.

 

The only thing that isn't strictly book-legal is his base -20 STR

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

Called Shots are ok when using generalized damage for purposes of ancillary effects -- like trying to pin a limb or some minor tactical thing like that. However using the damage multiples in conjunction with this is _not_ a good idea. The CV ranges in a supers game are simply too wide to make it viable, and characters don't buy sectional defenses since its not the campaign norm.

 

 

As far as the viability of growth based characters, you really have to step back and think of "growth" as a SFX for abilities vs the actual power "GROWTH"

 

 

Also, an approach you can take in the post 5e HERO System is, rather than make a normal size character that grows, you can make a character that is normally large but can reduce their size via Shrinking. Whether they think of themselves as such or not is immaterial, mechanically its a good approach; shrinking doesn't make the character weaker, just smaller. You can take just about any brick write up, add the appropriate Phys Lims for really big size, and enough shrinking to get them down to normal size.

 

 

I don't do a lot of metamorph characters since I'm not particularly fond of the AT, but WilyQuixote does like the AT and among other metamorphs did a pretty good big brick for Enforcers Inc, that might have some good stuff for you -->

 

Highrise

[Doc Samson]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

Don't buy the "Growth" Power.

 

Buy all the components you want with the Special Effect of "Gets' Much Bigger"

You can leave off the DCV Penalties this way; and the size of target issue can also be explained as SFX: Hitting me is easy, hitting me so I'll notice is much harder. Lot's a nicks and scrapes and "just barely missed' type shots.

 

And don't feel bad - they're bouncing all kinds of interesting and good constructs in that campaign. Vox's original character was pretty cool and emasculated for no good reason.

This sounds like sage advice. Remind me I owe you rep (I must have recently hit you for something else).

Also' date=' an approach you can take in the post 5e HERO System is, rather than make a normal size character that grows, you can make a character that is normally large but can reduce their size via Shrinking. Whether they think of themselves as such or not is immaterial, mechanically its a good approach; shrinking doesn't make the character weaker, just smaller. You can take just about any brick write up, add the appropriate Phys Lims for really big size, and enough shrinking to get them down to normal size.[/quote']

This is cool too ala Colossal Boy. Bah, I owe you rep too.

[JmOz]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

This sounds like sage advice. Remind me I owe you rep (I must have recently hit you for something else).

 

This is cool too ala Colossal Boy. Bah, I owe you rep too.

 

I think you mean Micro Lad

[Fabricati]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

And don't feel bad - they're bouncing all kinds of interesting and good constructs in that campaign. Vox's original character was pretty cool and emasculated for no good reason.

 

They really are. It's like they want a remarkably specific flavor, but can't seem to quite agree on what that flavor is.

 

Though I'll admit both of mine were pretty much made up for S+G value; if they keep tugging me about like this I'm more than half-tempted to pick up my marbles and leave like you did.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

I am trying to build a character for a Champions game. I would like to do a Growth Brick, but a few bad memories of past Growth characters have started to re-surface. I'm ok with not being able to be full size alot of the time as I have learned to adjust my tactics to still be able to contribute in combat when small (holding actions to Haymaker on awkward phases, Move Throughs on low DCV opponents, ect).

 

My problem is the DCV penalty. In the past, things like full-speed Move Throughs and Placed Shots to the Head have resulted in my Growth Bricks getting dropped too fast. I usually overcome this problem by taking Damage Reduction (the trade-off being that I am rarely missed even by high-damage maneuvers like coordinated attacks and move throughs), but the campaign I am submitting the character for has banned DR. Any advice on how to overcome low (1-3) DCV would be appreciated.

 

P.S. I thought about just buying DCV up to normal levels but CSLs in the campaign are limited to 2-3 so the best DCV I could hope for at full size is a 3. Thanks in advance for replies.

 

Absorption to STUN, Only Vs Head Shots(-2)

 

Martial Dodge

[jwpacker]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

This sounds like sage advice. Remind me I owe you rep (I must have recently hit you for something else).

 

This is cool too ala Colossal Boy. Bah, I owe you rep too.

 

Repped 'em both for you, Doc. Good ideas in this thread.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Need advice on Growth

 

Repped 'em both for you' date=' Doc. Good ideas in this thread.[/quote']

Thank you.

 

I am a little hesistant to try a "simulated growth" build based on the below feedback for my previous submission, but I may give it a try anyway.

I know Steve Long prefers simulating Always On Growth and Density Increase with other powers' date=' but I like buying actual Growth (with 0 END Persistant). Again, more of a flavor thing...you can go either way with an OIHD character.[/quote']