gojira Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe CU doesn't work as well for me when it does obvious homages. Example: the Fabulous Five is not my favorite group. CU works best for me when it delves into original material. The personalities and backgrounds are interesting and varied, and I feel like the writers have done more original thinking in making the characters than simply cloning another superhero group. Example: The Sentinels in News of The World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The Fabulous Five were a little obvious for me, too -- at least the originals. The later replacement members of the team were rather interesting IMO. OTOH the Sentinels and the Justice Squadron have fairly original members, with strong concepts and personalities. They convey a sense of history, of having evolved to their present composition organically over time. Certainly for the Sentinels, Darren Watts's articles in Digital Hero detailing their past members and significant events add deep heritage to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe Certainly for the Sentinels' date=' Darren Watts's articles in [i']Digital Hero[/i] detailing their past members and significant events add deep heritage to the team. Which Issue! Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe Which Issue! Cheers QM Issues #13 through 20, except #15. Each article details part of the history of the Sentinels team, and two or three members of their changing roster, over the 1960s and 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe However, please keep in mind that some of that information may have been superseded by what appears in CU:NotW. It's not official until it shows up in an actual book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The Fabulous Five were a little obvious for me, too -- at least the originals. The later replacement members of the team were rather interesting IMO. OTOH the Sentinels and the Justice Squadron have fairly original members, with strong concepts and personalities. They convey a sense of history, of having evolved to their present composition organically over time. Certainly for the Sentinels, Darren Watts's articles in Digital Hero detailing their past members and significant events add deep heritage to the team. Both the Sentinels and JS are detailed in NotW (at least, their newest incarnations are). I do like them both, and as you point out the history and continuity of the groups is really interesting too. I like Diamond better as the old-timer on the Sentinels' team, rather than just a Thing clone in the Fabulous Five. Hopefully, future directions for Champions goes in the direction of more original stuff, rather than just "homages." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe notw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe Champions Universe: News of the World (a HERO games supplement)!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe However' date=' please keep in mind that some of that information may have been superseded by what appears in CU:NotW. It's not official until it shows up in an actual book. [/quote'] Granted; but I can't recall anything in that book which contradicted what appeared in those articles. If anything, NOTW referred to details that are given more attention in the articles, like Thaar. Besides, in the age of Cryptic Studios there's no guarantee even the material in past books will remain "official." None of which takes away the fact that Darren's Sentinels background provides more cool stuff we could adapt to our own games, and is just plain fun reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe notw? News of the World. It's the second book in the Champions Universe line. It details what's been going on in the CU since the original book was published. New team members, some team members retired and Black Paladin gets all depressed when his latest plan gets foil again and he's thrown in the clink. Plus other updates and new ideas for folks who are actively using the CU. Mostly, it's a lot more plot ideas and background for beleaguered GMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe What I particularly like about the 5E CU is not how I can game with it - but that Steve and Darren explore so many diverse concepts that if I ever do need an example of an idea for a game I want to be in or run there's likely something in the CU I can reference, use, borrow or mangle to my needs. A very good job was done to make it both coherent and open enough to try and grab a little bit of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe I'm not a huge fan of the 5th ed. but I do like that there was some attempt to keep it consistent. I have to say my favorite Champs setting was C:tNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The New Millennium did have some very interesting characters and concepts, although it was an annoyingly uneven mixture of cool and lame IMO. What bothered me the most about it was the incoherence of presentation. Necessary background and character information was scattered across the three NM books, without enough logical organization; and there was no central reference to help you find what you wanted. The thorough indices in Fifth Edition books are a change very much for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The New Millennium did have some very interesting characters and concepts, although it was an annoyingly uneven mixture of cool and lame IMO. What bothered me the most about it was the incoherence of presentation. Necessary background and character information was scattered across the three NM books, without enough logical organization; and there was no central reference to help you find what you wanted. The thorough indices in Fifth Edition books are a change very much for the better. I'll have to agree with that. But then, I tend to throw the lame stuff down a deep well and just keep the cool stuff from the various editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe HERO has done a good job of making the CU breathe. I can't think of a supers RPG setting that's been around as long and though there have been " Reboots " the CU has remained familar and evolving. For that I'm grateful But for me, Menton will always be an alien symbiote with robes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe But for me, Menton will always be an alien symbiote with robes Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe And FAB hair.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The New Millennium did have some very interesting characters and concepts, although it was an annoyingly uneven mixture of cool and lame IMO. What bothered me the most about it was the incoherence of presentation. Necessary background and character information was scattered across the three NM books, without enough logical organization; and there was no central reference to help you find what you wanted. The thorough indices in Fifth Edition books are a change very much for the better. That is true, but I think if the setting was able to exist longer, they could have come out with a Champions Universe book or some such. I mean if you think about it, 5th ed. is really spread out too. I mean you have the various Enemies books, Champions Universe, and books like VIPER, UNTIL, Day of the Destroyer etc. Its hard to explain but I don't like the explanation that magic creates super science... Super everything really. I really liked in the NM how Mutants were really an evolutionary step above humans. They were stronger, faster, smarter even better looking. Which explains the (limited) super science. I dunno I just thought it was really creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe remember the theory of realativity"every action has an equal and opposite reaction maybe magic is the equal and opposite reaction to science ,at least in a role gaming or comic universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAlpha Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The Champions Universe is almost a parallel to the growth of comics since the 60's. There have been shining moments of greatness as well as mistakes we all wish we could forget. George MacDonald, Steve Peterson, Bruce Harlick, Ray Greer and Mark Williams are the Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and Jack Kirby of this whole shebang. Creating a place were dreams of being a superhero could come true. Aaron Allston and Denis Loubet are the Marv Wolfman and George Perez, taking the potential of the Champions game and refining it bringing sophistication and respect to a "childish" medium. The whole "New Millennium" Era could even be compared to the horror that was Image Comics. Steve Long and DOJ resemble in someways the revitalization that sparked comic books much like Grant Morrison's JLA revamp. Champions has reflected the comic book industry, either accidentally or on purpose and we are lucky enough to have been along for the ride. I'm looking forward to 6th Edition and Champions: Online and hope that it marks the next great era of my favorite pastime. I also pray that it doesn't remind me of House of M or Infinite Crisis. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe remember the theory of realativity"every action has an equal and opposite reaction maybe magic is the equal and opposite reaction to science ' date='at least in a role gaming or comic universe[/quote'] Equal and opposite reaction is actually one of Newton's Laws of Motion, but that aside, I don't like that explanation because there is no "pool of power" for science like there is for magic, and if there was, it would stand to (comic book) reason, that as one got more powerful the other would be less so. I don't know, like I said I just don't like it. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The Champions Universe is almost a parallel to the growth of comics since the 60's. There have been shining moments of greatness as well as mistakes we all wish we could forget. George MacDonald, Steve Peterson, Bruce Harlick, Ray Greer and Mark Williams are the Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and Jack Kirby of this whole shebang. Creating a place were dreams of being a superhero could come true. Aaron Allston and Denis Loubet are the Marv Wolfman and George Perez, taking the potential of the Champions game and refining it bringing sophistication and respect to a "childish" medium. The whole "New Millennium" Era could even be compared to the horror that was Image Comics. Steve Long and DOJ resemble in someways the revitalization that sparked comic books much like Grant Morrison's JLA revamp. Champions has reflected the comic book industry, either accidentally or on purpose and we are lucky enough to have been along for the ride. I'm looking forward to 6th Edition and Champions: Online and hope that it marks the next great era of my favorite pastime. I also pray that it doesn't remind me of House of M or Infinite Crisis. Peace Ok. I like this post. And we the fans and players certainly seem to have our favorite 'ages/editions' or aspects there of sometimes One thing I like about the current crew is Darren and Steve bounce off against each other well when it comes to universe creation and development. Maybe I'm presuming, but how it seems to me is that Darren has a real love of the Silver age/Bronze age stuff, where as Steve leans towards the Bronze/Iron takes on things. Throw in many other remarkably talented guys like Scott Bennie, and suddenly you've got the fudge ripple ice cream of superhero gaming universes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe Equal and opposite reaction is actually one of Newton's Laws of Motion, but that aside, I don't like that explanation because there is no "pool of power" for science like there is for magic, and if there was, it would stand to (comic book) reason, that as one got more powerful the other would be less so. I don't know, like I said I just don't like it. I And you have every right not to. The topic has been debated ad nauseum on these forums, and I could point you to (exhaustive) threads on it if you're interested; but it probably would not be a profitable detour for this thread to take. Mind you, "magic" is just the label chosen for the condition that enables superheroes and villains to arise in the era parallelling their appearance in comic books in the real world. You can substitute your own explanation, or just ignore the past continuity of the Hero Universe, and Champions Earth will work just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe The whole "New Millennium" Era could even be compared to the horror that was Image Comics /rant I hear this a lot and it's actually one of my pet peves (I think Lord Liaden and I talked about this). The New Millennuim, was no darker than any of the previous or current Champions Universes. I mean lets look at the Champions: Quatum - She is a cop, okay PRIMUS type cop but still a cop. Costume might be a little skimpy, but no more so than the original, and less than the REAL original Flare. Seeker - A much better version. Genetically engineered (okay that could have gone), plus scientist. Takes the place of the original Seeker and Nighthawk (without being as dark as Nighthawk) Behemoth - He's an archeology professor. Okay I can see the demon being seen as dark, but the guy is a philosopher, he's a lot like Beast of the X-Men. Solatiare - A more competent, Less hodgpodge version of the original (come on an overly shy ACTRESS?) Defender - A college jock with his nerdy buddies try to be a superhero. How far from Image can you possibly get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Re: In Praise of the Champions Universe / Seeker - A much better version. Genetically engineered (okay that could have gone), plus scientist. Takes the place of the original Seeker and Nighthawk (without being as dark as Nighthawk) this sounds good to0 bad he was dumped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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