Extreme Weather, Et Al.

[Steve Long]

At the risk of starting a discussion just a few days before I won't be able to type much....

 

A poster on the Questions board recently asked about whether there are any rules for hurricanes, to which I of course responded no. But that got me to thinking, what sorts of extreme weather and similar environmental effects does the HERO System not have rules for? The rules in the Environment chapter of 5ER cover plenty of situations, and VAmok has advanced rules for large fires, but what else is there?

 

Hurricanes/typhoons, and tornados are two things (arguably just one thing done slightly differently) that there aren't really rules for (aside from some wind-related stuff in TUV, I suppose). What else?

[Alibear]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Earthquake. Meteor strike. Bush fire. Blizzard conditions. I'm struggling here. Landslide. Avalanche.

 

edit: Tsunami

[Edsel]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Tornadoes, Hail Storms

[sbarron]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

The constant struggle between the Sun's evil bombardment of the earth with its infamous UV ray cannon, and the earths only line of defense against this threat, the ozone force field.*

 

*I'd like to go on record that I don't think we actually need rules for storms, natural catastrophes, or the deadly rays from the sun. However, for the sake of Steve's question...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

All good considerations for Hero 6e. Alibear mentions tsunami. I recall an old Alpha Flight where the heroes had to deal with a flood heading for a nearby town. We don't have rules for that tidal wave/tsunami/dam has burst flood tide.

 

IIRC, most of the environmental rules deal first with direct damaging matters, like being struck by lightning, set on fire, splashed with chemicals or exposed to radiation. I don't recall whether they deal with the effects of marching through a hot, dry desert, a hot, wet rainforest, or the frozen tundra. I don't recall them dealing with hostile weather beyond getting hit by a lightning bolt.

 

As well, I think anything one can take Life Support to avoid should have the effects on those lacking LS spelled out in the environment rules. The above covers some of that. Vacuums, high pressure, deprivation of food, water or sleep, etc. are also relevant in this regard.

 

I think these would be useful additions, but temper that with the suggestion they should not run for dozens of pages. If more space is needed, a brief summary in a new rulebook would be welcome, with later expansion in a book whose purpose includes dealing with hostile environments.

[Alibear]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Volcanic eruption.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

I would note that, for a lot of these, we have some of the environmental effects. Damage from wading in molten lava, the effect of being denied oxygen, etc. We don't have any rules or guidelines for playing out a volcanic eruption, so we only know what happens if we step in the lava. I think this could get very detailed and time-consuming.

 

While valuable, I wonder if this is better material for sourcebooks (like Villainy Amok) than for main stream rulebooks. The ideal, to me, would be a scenario including extreme weather/natural disaster which outlines these rules because they impact the scenario. Of course, the fact Hero no longer produces scenario books because of economic reality puts a damper on that approach. However, it may also indicate that the rules themselves might not be great sellers.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Mudslides can prove extremely deadly, and encompass both some sort of entengle and, of course, drowning. Being a non-newtonian liquid (like quicksand or custard) it can be extremely difficult to get out of even if you are ridiculously strong (unless you have an anchor you'll pull yourself deeper rather than out, and swimming will be no real help at all).

 

Also floods can be quite deadly for less than obvious reasons - often it is the cold and exhaustion that does for people rather than (necessarily) 'just' drowning.

 

Part of the problem in modelling a flood in Hero is that swimming is 2" for most humans. This means that most Hero characters, PC or not, can swim indefinitely without running out of END.

 

I'd suggest that part of the environmental effect of flood (or fast/choppy water generally) could be a supress on swim so, for instance, in fast water, you might supress 3 points of swim, meaning that, in effect, most people can not swim at all in fast water. That effect could be neutralised with a life preserver or similar equipment.

 

As for the debilitating effect of cold, I'd suggest either an environmental END drain or a REC supress - the rules suggest reducing END by the temperature level, which seems very sensible, but I don;t think they are deadly enough.

 

One issue I do have though is that you can be immune to temperature for just a few points with life support. We have a rather natty 'Temperature Level' system and I'd like to see LS changed so that you can buy LS for a range of temperature levels, maybe at 1 point per point. You can decide what your character's base temperature level is when you create the character.

 

The TL system might need a little refinement, but suggests that Earth levels are -6 to +3. I assume a normal environment where an unprotected human will take no damage from the termperature is TL 0.

 

I'd suggest that we need to look at the system a bit more caerefully. Someone who knows more about it than I can correct the assumptions, but I'd suggest that in the range 10-20 degrees centigrade a normal human can survive unprotected.

 

At present the temperature effects are a straight line progression, but that is not really appropriate IMO - as you get further from your comfort zone, the effects should become progressively more extreme. Plus or minus one TL could be compensated for by normal clothing, and heavier clothing can compensate for lower temperature levels, although probably you'd need some very specialsist clothing to compensate for higher TLs.

 

I'd probably start by halving your REC at that level, which means that Long Term END becomes far more fo an issue.

 

At plus or minus 2 levels I'd suggest that you would actually start taking damage, albeit slowly, and probably by drain, something like the drowning rules: lose 1d6 END per hour, then stun when your END is gone then Body when your STUN is gone. Each additional TL would DOUBLE the damage (or move one step down the time chart - even better. Believe me you are not going to live long unprotected at -10 degrees centigrade.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

All the ideas I was going to mention (forest fires, floods, large-stone hail) have been posted.

 

But this is a large part of the reason I've wanted to do The Ultimate Environment -- so we'd have some clear rules for this kind of thing.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

I'm not sure that The Ultimate Environment will be a big seller...but you could probably get away with doing a 'Natural Disaster' scenario which incorporated environmental effects rules.

 

In fact you could probably do environmental effects rules quite eaily, not by listing all the various types of environmental/weather situation but by listing all the EFFECTS, in true Hero style.

 

So, we have:

 

1. Direct Damage (physical, normal and killing, maybe also NND)

2. Direct Damage (energy, normal and killing, maybe also NND)

3. Drain/supress effects (REC and END/STUN/BODY, possibly movement)

4. Forced movement (TK or UAA flight)

5. Immobilisation

6. Sense effects (darkness, mainly)

7. Other effects (CV reduction, skill roll penalties - anything CE can do)

 

That's probably about it - there is not much else the environment can do to you, really, unless you mant something REALLY exotic (like hallucinogenic atmospheres).

 

So, we define a range of effects for each of those categories, and you can then specify any environmental effect by a 7 point summary explaining how each effect works for that particular environmental/weather effect, for example:

 

Lava Flow

 

Lava flows at between 1" and 24" per turn, depening on how hot it is and how steep the ground is. Usually the flow is between 1/2" and 3" in depth, depending on the situation. It has the following effects:

 

1. -

2. 2d6 continuous Killing Attack

3. Drowning rules if submerged

4. You have to move at the speed of the lava flow if it is deeper then you and you are not anchored. In addition you sink at 1/2" per phase, up to the depth of lava.

5. Lava acts as a 4 DEF entangle that starts with 1 Body and the Body increases by 1 per phase up to a Body of 4.

6. Lava acts as darkness to IR vision in any event and darkness to all senses if submerged.

7. You will be at -3 OCV, DCV and on all skill rolls when entangled in lava.

 

I'm not saying that is necessarily entirely accurate, but it is easy to understand and should work reasonably well for a wide range of effects.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Something about the effects of toxic atmospheric contamination -- smoke from fires, natural gas leaks, volcanic fumes -- would be nice. I also think it would be helpful to add details about the penalties to Perception from things such as smoke, rain, fog, and snow. Not just Sight Perception, but Hearing and Smell, may be impaired by those conditions.

 

I also believe some of the rules for underwater activity currently in Hidden Lands should be part of the 6E Environment chapter.

[Steve Long]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

All good considerations for Hero 6e.

 

If this were intended for 6E, I'd've posted (or cross-posted) over on them there 6E boards. I'm asking mostly out of curiosity. This sort of thing might be good to wedge into a supplement somewhere down the line, but I don't think it's core rulebook fodder.

[pinecone]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

I agree for economic reasons I'd suggest a cool senario book with a plot line that lets the environmental rules go on display.

 

I used the old underwater senario book, then used the rules for years after.....maybe a weather controller adventure? (machines, group of mutants/ angry spirits etc...)

 

If it's weather controll machines (and earth shakers etc...) then ARGENT could take center stage!

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Hm. I think ... a lot of extreme weather and environmental conditions can be handled by the GM -- a landslide or avalanche can become 'a continuous Move Through at 1/3 terminal velocity by 1-hex boulders (w/ strength appropriate to their vehicular weight/size/BODY) upon everything in its path'. If the Hero can handle that, great.

 

Weather ... is a little weirder. Sean Waters talks up there about the different 'levels' one can affect, and in truth, this is good for what ails ye -- Wind Levels, Temperature Levels, Humidity/Precipitation Levels, all are aspects of what happens in a hurricane; less so, a tornado. Using all of the Change Environment rules for the former is not all that difficult; using a combo of CE and TK AoE is really all that a tornado needs.

 

And, of course, most weather events are continuous -- or 'permanent'...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

I'm not sure that The Ultimate Environment will be a big seller...

Neither am I, but at the same time I'm not sure that it wouldn't, either -- especially if we include things like terrain modifiers for Movement and Perception, stats for environmental objects, lighting effects, minor expansions of the Sense rules, and other things that explore every corner of the environmental rules (not just those dealing with weather).

[Cancer]

Re: Extreme Weather, Et Al.

 

Most of my ideas for this sort of thing have already been mentioned or are relevant for only for Star Hero. Supernova blasts, near-pulsar (or near-black hole) conditions (gravitational tide extremes, extremely hard radiation environments, etc.), other astrophysical nastiness.