Invisibility

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Invisibility

 

Its not really wonky, just takes a bit of quick thinking. Whether or not it "activates" Damage Shield would depend on if the Damage Shield was activated by touch or was a continous field of damage around the character. Context matters.

 

The fact that Invisibility to Touch would give them a pass through powers activated by touch would be a benefit of the invisibility. They paid points for it, it should provide some benefit.

 

Please define "touch".

 

from page 254 ■ Character Creation: Power Modifiers Hero System 5th Edition, Revised

 

DAMAGE SHIELD

Value: +½; additional +¼ to do Shield’s damage

to targets with HTH attacks other than Grab

 

This Advantage allows a character to set up a field around himself that causes damage to any target who comes into contact with it. A Damage Shield affects anyone who hits or Grabs the character, or is Grabbed by him.

 

BUYING DAMAGE SHIELD

To create a Damage Shield, a character buys any Attack Power and applies this Advantage to it. The power must be Constant (either inherently or because he has purchased Continuous for it).

 

Note, I didn't say anything about the Trigger Advantage.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Invisibility

 

Invisibility to touch will not prevent a damage shield hurting you if you touch it any more than invisibility to sight prevents an AoE you are in the area of hurting you, or a visible wavelength laser burning you (unless it is so limited).

 

Invisibility prevents you being sensed by the sense you are invisible to, that's all. I've never understood the need for special rules. It categorically does NOT mean you are in some way immune to touch. You can not pass through objects and they can not pass through you. Don't forget that the fact that OTHERS can not sense you by touch doesn't mean you don't interact with the world normally or that YOU don't feel touch. Moreover, whilst someone can not detecet you by touch that is not the same as saying that you can not be detected by that senses indirectly - it doesn't give you IPE on your strength, for example, so if you puch someone, it will still feel tot ehm as if they have been attacked, although it might feel a little weird, and they will be able to work out where the attacker is, and attack at -1 OCV: the attack is visible, in effect, from its consequences. Similarly, it would not make you an undetectable pickpocket - you could certainly toch someone without them noticeing, but, for instance, getting a watch off their wrist might be difficult - real pickpockets will grip your wrist to disguise the feel of the watch being removed - you can't do that. Similarly a hand in pocket will not be felt directly, but a tug on the cloth of the pocket will be felt. Invisibility to touch is worth a situational bonus for many skills, but that's all.

 

Desolid on the other hand does two things- it allows you to pass through solid objects (which invisibility to touch wouldn't) and it allows you to ignore most damage (which invisibility to touch wouldn't). I am at a loss to see how they are in any way interchangeable.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Invisibility

 

No, it wouldn't bypass a 'classic' Damage Shield, which is a continuous power that does damage to anything that comes into contact with it. What I was thinking of are some Damage Shield like power constructs that are triggered by physical contact (normally built with the Trigger advantage). Depending on the defined SFX, invisibility to touch might prevent such a power from activating. If the individual is completely unaware on all levels that they are being touched.

[Crissa]

Re: Invisibility

 

Wouldn't Invis to Touch just mean people couldn't find you by touching you; not confer any of the benefits of actually being desolid?

 

So you'd be immune to many blind things. They just wouldn't know you were there via poking. But the locked door would still stop you...

 

-Crissa

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Invisibility

 

Wouldn't Invis to Touch just mean people couldn't find you by touching you; not confer any of the benefits of actually being desolid?

 

So you'd be immune to many blind things. They just wouldn't know you were there via poking. But the locked door would still stop you...

 

-Crissa

 

Exactly!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Invisibility

 

No' date=' it wouldn't bypass a 'classic' Damage Shield, which is a continuous power that does damage to anything that comes into contact with it. What I was thinking of are some Damage Shield like power constructs that are triggered by physical contact (normally built with the Trigger advantage). Depending on the defined SFX, invisibility to touch might prevent such a power from activating. If the individual is completely unaware on all levels that they are being touched.[/quote']

 

And I originally mentioned a Damage Shield Advantaged attack power.

 

I think the problem here is that no one is agreeing on what 'sense of touch' actually means.

 

Let's look at from the opposite perspective.

What does it mean for a person to have NO sense of touch (and still be functional in all other ways)?

 

They can't tell the texture of what they touch (like not feeling the bumps of 'brail'). They can still tell the distance and direction of their hands (and feet) from their eyes due to muscle resistance. They will still know that they are "touching something". They just can't tell what that something is.

 

So sure, i'd allow a character to take Invisibility vs. the Touch Sense Group but it wouldn't keep another character from knowing that they are touching 'something'. It would probably get their attention for the oddness factor alone (just like a Darkness field with IPE Sight would).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Invisibility

 

I'd agree with that. Invisibility to touch would allow you to touch someone without them knowing, but if you squeezed or pushed them the movement of their own bodies would give away that something had happened. No one would be able to feel the texture of your skin, or, presumably the temperature, as touch does that too.

 

Far more problematic than invisibility to touch would be flash/darkness to touch. You probably couldn't even walk more than a few steps if you did not get some sort of touch feedback.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Invisibility

 

Far more problematic than invisibility to touch would be flash/darkness to touch. You probably couldn't even walk more than a few steps if you did not get some sort of touch feedback.

 

Hmm. No, I think we infer that from our real life experience, but I don't think the game effect would be that severe unless you link in a few other Powers. The Touch Sense in the game deals with how you detect things and people around you, not with how you move. Maybe as a dramatic GM device in a heroic game you could go that far, but otherwise I think you'd need some kind of Str/Dex/Running Drain or whatever.

[Alibear]

Re: Invisibility

 

No sense of touch? Bad things happen, like a -3cv and dex rolls but invisibility to touch would mean that people can't feel you, not that you can't feel them.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Invisibility

 

No sense of touch? Bad things happen' date=' like a -3cv and dex rolls but invisibility to touch would mean that people can't feel you, not that you can't feel them.[/quote']

 

Of course. But what we're trying to figure out is what would be the game effects of interacting with someone invisible to touch. What about trying to hold onto someone (via Grab) where you can't feel what part you're holding. Sense of touch is extremely important in wrestling as you need to feel the various shifts and movements your opponent is making so that you can compensate to prevent them from escaping. Do we give an invisible character a bonus to STR to escape Grabs?

[Alibear]

Re: Invisibility

 

What does the book say on having your sense of touch removed? -3cv and -3 to dex rolls. That would likely scupper any wrestling match with such a slippery customer.

 

Just as an aside, what is the special effect of Invisible-to-Touch-Man? The special effect of the character would probably give some clues on how to deal with him I would have thought.

[Alibear]

Re: Invisibility

 

Having thought about it though... does Invisibility to touch require the lack of fringe to be purchased? Surely when grappling wie the beast you have to be able to make a perception roll to get a good grip of him? I'm confused.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Invisibility

 

Having thought about it though... does Invisibility to touch require the lack of fringe to be purchased? Surely when grappling wie the beast you have to be able to make a perception roll to get a good grip of him? I'm confused.

 

I would say no myself. But probably Touch is going to be included with other senses in an invisibility anyway, and the Fringe is for the whole power, not just one sense in it.