Leaping indoors

[Nerdnumber1]

Does anyone know a way around the leaping arc rule (ultimate speedster pg212)? My brick uses leaping as his main combat movement, but is menaced by low ceilings. One time, we were fighting minutemen (or whatever those sentenel knockoffs are called) and their x2kb punch kept sending me into the wall-less, incomplete building the team was defending. I didn't break anything, but had to run with 6" movement to get to a place that I could jump into combat. Every phase that a brick isn't taking fire is a phase that his teammates are.

[lemming]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

Does anyone know a way around the leaping arc rule (ultimate speedster pg212)? My brick uses leaping as his main combat movement' date=' but is menaced by low ceilings. One time, we were fighting minutemen (or whatever those sentenel knockoffs are called) and their x2kb punch kept sending me into the wall-less, incomplete building the team was defending. I didn't break anything, but had to run with 6" movement to get to a place that I could jump into combat. Every phase that a brick isn't taking fire is a phase that his teammates are.[/quote']

 

Going off of old rules here, but if the rules are that you have to have a height of 1/2 the distance of the leap, we pretty much ignored it since a brick could go at a flatter trajectory. Footing might be trickier the shallower the arc though.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

I would allow it.

 

Shallow Leaping Arcs Requires a DEX Roll

 

QM

[Bloodstone]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

I'm torn on the issue.

 

I can easily see characters doing rapid, short hops. Characters like Beast are often portrayed as doing this in the comics. However, this is functionally better written up as Running or Limited Flight, as such a character can obviously change directions between hops.

 

Ultimately, there's a reason Leaping is only 1 pt per inch. To remove restrictions on it may make it too good for the price...

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

A Leaping Tackle angle is shallower than a Leaping for distance.

 

As is Leaping forward to get under the descending door.

 

Both are good arguments though.

 

 

QM

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

I'm torn on the issue.

 

I can easily see characters doing rapid, short hops. Characters like Beast are often portrayed as doing this in the comics. However, this is functionally better written up as Running or Limited Flight, as such a character can obviously change directions between hops.

 

Ultimately, there's a reason Leaping is only 1 pt per inch. To remove restrictions on it may make it too good for the price...

 

I'm not asking for rapid hops, only a low, lunging leap. It would still prevent turning and may miss the target. This is even ignoring the difficulties with noncombat leaping (stay in the sky multiple phases, don't get to your destination any faster, 0 ocv, 1/2 dcv, no turning, no stopping, no action until you land).

[McCoy]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

I would allow it.

 

Shallow Leaping Arcs Requires a DEX Roll

 

QM

 

A Leaping Tackle angle is shallower than a Leaping for distance.

 

As is Leaping forward to get under the descending door.

 

Both are good arguments though.

 

 

QM

I would allow either of those, if your GM doesn't, try the advantage "Usable [As Second Mode Of Movement]." See if they will allow a +1/4 advantage to allow your leaping to also act as straight-line only flight (with the Sx of a shallow arc leap), maybe for half distance.

[Comic]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

I'd allow Acrobatics.

 

Or a series of hops of shorter distance that add up to the full leap distance.

 

Since that was at one point explicitly allowed.. don't see any reason not to carry on with it.

[WarriorKnight]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

Do you have The Ultimate Skill.On pg 69 & 70 under Acrobatics there is a section on bouncing.It sounds to me what your talking about.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

Comic: Multiple hops is definately against the rules (its basically running then), unless you mean jumping off surfaces, which requires dex -2 or acrobatics +1 roll for the first jump and an increased penalty for further jumps. I have a 23 dex so that might work well if I bought acrobatics (I'm already a 400kg metal man with 65str and stealth at 14-, why not do flips?)

 

Warrior knight: Bouncing on that page refers to jumping on trampoline-like things to gain leap which is seldom an option, especially for 400kg metal men. Even if something was available that bounced and held my weight, it still wouldn't held me combat those vile ceilings.

 

I have thought of going through the ceiling, but I've been trying to cut back on collateral damage when possible, especially if my mission is to protect the structure in question.

[Comic]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

I'm dubious about 'against the rules' unless the action being tried is also against common or dramatic sense.

 

Multiple hops in one phase up to one's total leaping is hardly the same as running: it exposes the character to increased knockback, has poorer maneuverability, and may require targeting the hex for the purposes of landing.

 

Multiple hops certainly makes comic book sense: the Atom, Daredevil, Spider Man, Hulk, Beast, Batman and Robin all are portrayed using this mode from time to time.

 

While it'd be amply unrealistic to use this method overall, I would put this down to poor character design: if you can leap it in a phase, you ought be able to run it also, if your leaping is based on human-like ambulation. (Though you maybe comparing NCM Running to Leaping.)

 

I do agree on cumulative penalties for multiple leaps, and could see a hero with leaping ending up in the wrong hex, and/or prone, on a bad roll.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

Multiple hops certainly makes comic book sense: the Atom, Daredevil, Spider Man, Hulk, Beast, Batman and Robin all are portrayed using this mode from time to time.

 

I think some of that was swinging or running with the use of acrobatics. Also, remember that a phase is about one second, so some of the higher speed characters could have have multiple phases in what appeared to be a single move. Ultimate Speedster's bouncing-off-walls move might fit the bill (acrobatics roll with modifiers to see if you don't fall on your face). I think I can use it on the ground, but I know that my dice will abandon me at the worst possible time, sending me to a giant monster's feet. On the other hand, 3 points to have a 400kg metal brick backflip over an enemy would likely be worth it in itself.

[Comic]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

The point of leaping is that you aren't on the ground between the start and stop of the leap.

 

If I had a room that had traps in some hexes triggered by stepping in the hex, then I'd pretty much not accept Running as equivalent to Leaping for the purposes of avoiding the trap.

 

Even if the player claimed their character had a wide stance.

 

Does a character with Acrobatics have an advantage over one without when making multiple hops as part of a single movement?

 

Absolutely.

 

They can change facing (allowing turning of corners, zig zag motion, and surprising opponents, among other things) where the non-acrobat cannot.

 

Would I forbid a non-acrobat from making multiple hops in one movement using their Leaping power?

 

No.

 

There's flat out no support in the rules or in common sense for such a prohibition imho, and it would unfairly penalize characters who paid the points for their power and should get the benefit while producing no in-game advantage.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

There's a difference between a fastball and a pop fly. A leap lasting one second can't go up for more than half a second, and as such will be falling for half a second. A horizontal leap of 30" won't go any higher than a horizontal leap of 2", because that piddly little weakling, gravity, rules the day here. That means every horizontal combat leap will go up about 2.4 meters, because any further would take too long to land.

 

So, yes, you can leap indoors if you stretch yourself out a bit. Oddly, everyone must do this to leap in combat.

 

Fun fact: Due to the extra time required for non-combat leaping, someone with 2" of leaping but X8 ncm will go 16" horizontally, but 19.6" vertically. (If I have my rules right. It might be less, but if it is we run into other funny problems.)

[nexus]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

Ultimately' date=' there's a reason Leaping is only 1 pt per inch. To remove restrictions on it may make it too good for the price...[/quote']

 

I agree with Bloodstone here. Leaping is pretty efficient (especially for Bricks since you can get a substantial amount of with Strength). Even going by the source material Bricks often run or use some of other movement power unless Leaping is their shtick. There should be some restrictions on it utility as opposed to Running or Flight. Not being able to turn is one and lengthier non combat time. You can miss the Target hex but Accurate isn't that expensive, OTOH.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

The point of leaping is that you aren't on the ground between the start and stop of the leap.

 

If I had a room that had traps in some hexes triggered by stepping in the hex, then I'd pretty much not accept Running as equivalent to Leaping for the purposes of avoiding the trap.

 

Even if the player claimed their character had a wide stance.

 

Does a character with Acrobatics have an advantage over one without when making multiple hops as part of a single movement?

 

Absolutely.

 

They can change facing (allowing turning of corners, zig zag motion, and surprising opponents, among other things) where the non-acrobat cannot.

 

Would I forbid a non-acrobat from making multiple hops in one movement using their Leaping power?

 

No.

 

There's flat out no support in the rules or in common sense for such a prohibition imho, and it would unfairly penalize characters who paid the points for their power and should get the benefit while producing no in-game advantage.

 

So I could make multiple separate 1" (or suitablely short) leaps with a power that costs 1 point per inch and allows free points from strength? Seems a bit inexpensive to me, and I'm the one using it. Bouncing can do something similiar with a skill roll, but any way to easily turn, stay reasonably low, and take as many leaps as you want would make it substantially better than run. Leaping is explained as flight that can't turn after you choose your destination and won't hold you up, which seems to imply one jump more than multiple. It isn't clear either way, but it shouldn't turn into cheap, long strides.

 

Bonedaddy, I think you have forgotten that comic-books, and thus Hero System, use our world's physics only when reasonably convenient.

[Comic]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

My question is, why does the character not have enough Running to match his Leaping distance?

 

If he can make the Leap, and uses human-like movement, what in his concept determines that he can't run at least that fast in the same amount of time?

 

Was it something left out at character creation?

 

In this situation, I'd ask the GM if it's okay to drop 10 STR and get 5" more Running, or to increase the END Cost of both STR and Running and use the extra points to pay for enough Running to make sense.

 

If there were good reasons - like the Atom having STR way out of proportion to his mass, or Spidey's radioactive arachnid mutations - to be able to leap farther in comparison to running than a normal human, then yes, I'd still allow multiple hops so long as the player were willing to accept that there are downsides to leaping.

 

Assuming 10" of 1" hops (not the way I'd do it), that's -20 to hit each target Hex, a virtual guarantee to end up in a random location no closer to combat and possibly prone on a fumble. It makes no logical sense to do it this way for most characters, and I'd agree with others who don't like it.

 

Assuming 10" of 3" hops (rounds to 1" arc), that's a 1" step and 3 leaps, -6 to hit each target Hex, and makes dramatic sense enough to handwave the rolls unless there were difficult circumstances (like obstacles, distractions, etc.)

 

In the above case, if the character is hit by an attack, they take an extra dice of knockback, and in either case they must only move in a straight line.

 

With Acrobatics, I'd more or less just say, "make your acrobatics roll, if you succeed you may get surprise against your opponent, unless you miss your roll by 3 or more, you end up in your target hex, up to your Leap distance." They'd still be susceptible to the extra dice of knockback, but they would be able to change directions every time they land.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Leaping indoors

 

Yes, my character creation was rushed because I didn't know the rules (after I had the rulebook for a week, I started correcting vet players and sighting sources). Adamant has a origin from a lab accident similiar to Ironclad's minus the alien and inter-planatary gladiator part (I strangly thought it out on the spot before hearing about the Champions). So he is heavier than normal and went from nerd-strength to tossing cars overnight.

 

I have been managing pretty well with pushed run and knockback resistance for the annoying indoor fights with a few brick tricks as needed. I insult and charge super villians twice my power even after they 20d6eb me, so I think running back is 'heroic' enough to warrent pushing